Hinduism
- Thread starter kmguru
- Start date
pollayilalex
Registered Member
Hello,
I am new here, but the topic Hinduism is not new. Like Christianity, there is no Dogma, or Set Philosophy or Certen Religious Principle to be followed in the Hinduism. It is ok to be Eathiest or Mono-Theist or IshtDevaradana. The most Important Facts are Dharma and Karma, Dharma is Sanathana Dharma. Karma is the Action and Reaction which is Each Action there is Equal and opposite reaction, Physicaly mentaly and spiritually. The bottom line is to Get Mukthi from this Samsara Sagaram of cycles of Deaths and Births, which is Liberation. It is ok to give pain to some one else, you will also go through the same situation of pain may be even more because every thing we do is a seed and is growing even pain, every action is a seed and reaction can be a tree, so think before you do, that is the same as Jesus Tecahing treat others the way you wanted to be treated by others.
I am new here, but the topic Hinduism is not new. Like Christianity, there is no Dogma, or Set Philosophy or Certen Religious Principle to be followed in the Hinduism. It is ok to be Eathiest or Mono-Theist or IshtDevaradana. The most Important Facts are Dharma and Karma, Dharma is Sanathana Dharma. Karma is the Action and Reaction which is Each Action there is Equal and opposite reaction, Physicaly mentaly and spiritually. The bottom line is to Get Mukthi from this Samsara Sagaram of cycles of Deaths and Births, which is Liberation. It is ok to give pain to some one else, you will also go through the same situation of pain may be even more because every thing we do is a seed and is growing even pain, every action is a seed and reaction can be a tree, so think before you do, that is the same as Jesus Tecahing treat others the way you wanted to be treated by others.
there are certain religious principles presented in the vedas to be followed by certain persons
there are two dharma's - sva dharma (dharma pertaining to the body, eg man woman brahmana sudra etc) and sanatana dharma (dharma pertaining to the soul ) - it is very difficult to talk about sanatana dharma without reference to monotheist principles, hence this statement (amongst many more that lead to the same conclusion) in Bhagavad gita
BG 18.66: Abandon all varieties of religion (dharma) and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.
another important teaching of jesus is that one should worship god, since good acts alone are not sufficient to grant liberation (in other words there are two things happening here - good acts tied in conjunction with worship of god grant liberation - worship of god without acts of goodness symptomizes material contamination of the performer and acts of goodness without worship of god is simply another aspect of samsara - ie one will have to take birth again in the material world to reap the results of one's previous material piety)
just a thought, from a purist perspective, KM, i dont agree with people who measure up everything they read / study about hinduism or any other spiritual thought with science. Its a different matter of discussion that anything related / connected with what your senses percieve or is connected to this world is nothing but ephemeral, but neverthless; I think it is inappropriate to measure two things up, they are like apples and oranges...
Other thoughts, I also would like others to consider this ... instead of reading Hinduism, the short guide, or some dummy guide o Hinduism, (i'd prefer to read Head First Hinduism if it ever comes, (yea right i am a J2EE person)) or even works of adi shankaracharya , one should read direct translations of vedas and upanishads; well, Mainly upanishads. Just translations and not commentaries etc. This is because when you read the scriptures yourself, you will know the absolute words...I mean its like saying read Learn Bible in 24 hours, instead of reading the Bible itself... come on! ... i think you get the picture.
Personally i have never read These interpretive commentaries written by shankaracharya, i think upanishads and Bhagwat (which is essentially culmination of Upanishadic messages and how a Karm yogi can incorporate them in a grihast (gree hast)(a life in society with a wife etc.) stage.
Notes on Pronunciation, ok so heres the deal, Brahman is pronounced as Brahm (or Bh (spoken together almost) -rum). I dont know why they use this stupid spellings.
Rick
Other thoughts, I also would like others to consider this ... instead of reading Hinduism, the short guide, or some dummy guide o Hinduism, (i'd prefer to read Head First Hinduism if it ever comes, (yea right i am a J2EE person)) or even works of adi shankaracharya , one should read direct translations of vedas and upanishads; well, Mainly upanishads. Just translations and not commentaries etc. This is because when you read the scriptures yourself, you will know the absolute words...I mean its like saying read Learn Bible in 24 hours, instead of reading the Bible itself... come on! ... i think you get the picture.
Personally i have never read These interpretive commentaries written by shankaracharya, i think upanishads and Bhagwat (which is essentially culmination of Upanishadic messages and how a Karm yogi can incorporate them in a grihast (gree hast)(a life in society with a wife etc.) stage.
Notes on Pronunciation, ok so heres the deal, Brahman is pronounced as Brahm (or Bh (spoken together almost) -rum). I dont know why they use this stupid spellings.
Rick
well i dont wanna bark up the wrong tree, but anyways are you familiar with Absolute truth eastern philosophy (just a question, no offense).
Now that we are at it,
true knowledge is empirical knowledge, but both true and false knowledge are manifestations, so in a way absolute truth (Brahm) transcends both.
I can score a 2 ft put too
Rick
Now that we are at it,
true knowledge is empirical knowledge, but both true and false knowledge are manifestations, so in a way absolute truth (Brahm) transcends both.
I can score a 2 ft put too
Rick
kmguru
Staff member
Yes, Humans can not absorb Absolute Truth...and yes, lack of knowledge is part of that truth but would not lead to any understanding except that there is a knowledge gap.
...that is because, our brain is still evolving...think about another 100,000 years or as in Babylon 5...another million years (becoming Vorlon like or better!)
...that is because, our brain is still evolving...think about another 100,000 years or as in Babylon 5...another million years (becoming Vorlon like or better!)
No I disagree.....humans can absorb the absolute truth....and when they do thats when they achieve the ultimate happiness....
Well, if the disagreement makes you happy...who am I to complain?
Don't worry, be happy.....
Is this some type of coded message?
Ok, so i admit KM your putting me on through those words.
I am not speaking in derogatory terms, guys bear with me. I am merely defining things from a pure upanishadic perspective.
Humans --> bunch of embodied false egos who see Maya / illussionary world because of their own inherent notion of existance (that they are separate from brahm, therefore everything else must be separate and have their own existance).
Absorbtion -> empirically if absolute truth can be absorbed then why are we even here? (on eastern philosophy forum ) absorption is physical term and may not be acurate to define or relate to absolute truth.
I"lll give you guys an analogy to understand the idea. Its like Still your mind first so that you dont have any thoughts anymore. You concentrate on being closer and closer to any aspect of brahm (may be like spiritual aspect.. like for example Shiva (by spiritual aspect i meant pure mainifestaion in spiritual form of brahm... more on this later.) your Karmic action bores fruits, this time around your fruit is what you chose the spiritual practice (like stilling your mind etc) for. (blah! its futile to explain, i am not clear... or am i? )
Tait. Upanishad gives another analogy. You have a bow and an arrow. Consider your soul (false ego that you exist separate from brahm) as an arrow, bow as vedas and upanishads and yogic vidya and target as Brahm / a gunn(Quality) of Sagun (with qualities if theres such a thing)brahm. Now you have to hit that target .. (wow that is clear i think)
Rick
I am not speaking in derogatory terms, guys bear with me. I am merely defining things from a pure upanishadic perspective.
Humans --> bunch of embodied false egos who see Maya / illussionary world because of their own inherent notion of existance (that they are separate from brahm, therefore everything else must be separate and have their own existance).
Absorbtion -> empirically if absolute truth can be absorbed then why are we even here? (on eastern philosophy forum ) absorption is physical term and may not be acurate to define or relate to absolute truth.
I"lll give you guys an analogy to understand the idea. Its like Still your mind first so that you dont have any thoughts anymore. You concentrate on being closer and closer to any aspect of brahm (may be like spiritual aspect.. like for example Shiva (by spiritual aspect i meant pure mainifestaion in spiritual form of brahm... more on this later.) your Karmic action bores fruits, this time around your fruit is what you chose the spiritual practice (like stilling your mind etc) for. (blah! its futile to explain, i am not clear... or am i?
)Tait. Upanishad gives another analogy. You have a bow and an arrow. Consider your soul (false ego that you exist separate from brahm) as an arrow, bow as vedas and upanishads and yogic vidya and target as Brahm / a gunn(Quality) of Sagun (with qualities if theres such a thing)brahm. Now you have to hit that target .. (wow that is clear i think)
Rick
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kmguru
Staff member
Bhagwat Gita is actually clear about the Truth, Absolute truth etc. When I was studying engineering, I had an opportunity to talk to a guru on Bhagwat Gita who had a science degree but a high school teacher turned a guru with a lot of desciples.
He gave standard answers to most students that most Indians believe. I had several debates with him. What he said made sense. Most people are like children in elementary school when it comes to spiritual knowledge and understanding. So, the explanation the guru uses must be at that level and not at a PhD level. For example teaching a kid about different colors, one does not use light spectrum, monochromatic light, mathmatics behind it, reflection physics, our perception and limitation in the light spectrum etc. Without science, one can not obtain the knowledge about infrared and full spectrum EMF stuff.
Krishna represented the Absolute entity (Biswarupa - the ultimate form), so he has the capacity of Absolute truth. A Gyana Yogi (Knowledge Seeker) understands the truth. But as you know, the Gyana Yoga is a life long process. So, by inference one can say that Absolute Truth can only be absorbed by the Absolute Entity that has the capacity of Biswarupa.
People have been debating over whether Knowledge is "a priori" or "a posteroi"...and that debate is not going to be over soon.
The bottom line is, if it makes you happy....
He gave standard answers to most students that most Indians believe. I had several debates with him. What he said made sense. Most people are like children in elementary school when it comes to spiritual knowledge and understanding. So, the explanation the guru uses must be at that level and not at a PhD level. For example teaching a kid about different colors, one does not use light spectrum, monochromatic light, mathmatics behind it, reflection physics, our perception and limitation in the light spectrum etc. Without science, one can not obtain the knowledge about infrared and full spectrum EMF stuff.
Krishna represented the Absolute entity (Biswarupa - the ultimate form), so he has the capacity of Absolute truth. A Gyana Yogi (Knowledge Seeker) understands the truth. But as you know, the Gyana Yoga is a life long process. So, by inference one can say that Absolute Truth can only be absorbed by the Absolute Entity that has the capacity of Biswarupa.
People have been debating over whether Knowledge is "a priori" or "a posteroi"...and that debate is not going to be over soon.
The bottom line is, if it makes you happy....
But Krishna taught people that anyone can attain a nature like his own and realize the absolute truth and attain brahm (the ultimate happiness), as did Gautama Buddha teach that anyone can be transformed into a vessel of light....its not anything at that people cannot attain...
"By becoming fixed in this knowledge, one can attain to the transcendental nature like My own. Thus established, one is not born at the time of creation or disturbed at the time of dissolution" (BG 14.2)
kmguru
Staff member
BG 14.2
Translation:
Taking refuge in this wisdom, attaining My divine nature, one is not reborn during the universal creation nor destroyed during the universal destruction.
Gautama used this to break the cycle of birth too.
But that does not say when that is possible if it is ever, nor understanding of Absolute Truth. One can not be a God in their lifetime. That job is already taken.
And you have to absorb that Wisdom first!
Translation:
Taking refuge in this wisdom, attaining My divine nature, one is not reborn during the universal creation nor destroyed during the universal destruction.
Gautama used this to break the cycle of birth too.
But that does not say when that is possible if it is ever, nor understanding of Absolute Truth. One can not be a God in their lifetime. That job is already taken.
And you have to absorb that Wisdom first!
What? Anyone can become a siddha in this lifetime, in fact one of the main things Buddha taught people was that they could achieve enlightenment in this lifetime, and of the importance of free will.BG 14.2
Translation:
Taking refuge in this wisdom, attaining My divine nature, one is not reborn during the universal creation nor destroyed during the universal destruction.
Gautama used this to break the cycle of birth too.
But that does not say when that is possible if it is ever, nor understanding of Absolute Truth. One can not be a God in their lifetime. That job is already taken.
You do not become God, rather you attain a nature just like God. So why can't you in this lifetime?
kmguru
Staff member
How many people you know or name in 20th Century, that attained a nature just like God and with the power just like God?
Just curious...
I don't know how many...but there probably were a lot of them....and also the 20th century is not that great of a time span in the scope of history....certainly nothing when you work with Hindu time scales...