High mileage carborateurs?

[Dennis Tate]

The thought has crossed my mind that getting people talking to each other about something might actually be the lowest cost method of getting an idea out to a huge audience. What I was told about back in the early 1980's might just be a brilliant marketing strategy??????

Or it could be a hoax?????


I was working near Bridgewater, N. S., Canada about four decades ago and I was told about a man from Cherry Hill going in and buying a new .... LTD. This was in the late 1970's.

The man drove and drove his .... LTD but the gas guage wasn't moving so he took his new car in to complain and have the gas guage fixed.

His car was taken from him and he was given a similar car in which the gas guage worked perfectly.

A similar event happened in Moncton, N. B., Canada but the man was a back yard mechanic and he realized that he had an experimental car and carborateur so he refused to sell his car back to the company until he was given SIX MILLION DOLLARS... (if I remember correctly.)


Was this all a lie?

Or was this a brilliant marketing strategy put out there by some executives at that North American car company meant to get people like me talking and writing about this phenomena?

Surely the President of the USA could over rule patent laws in favour of releasing technology that could be argued needed to become common place for many reasons relevant to the economic security of the USA.

 

[Janus58]

The myth of some "secret" technology that would give a car super-efficient gas economy is an old one. They come in different variations, but always ends the same way: The technology is "bought up" by some big corporation and then suppressed.
They are just that, myths, with no truth behind them.

 

[sculptor]

51 years ago
I had an international travelall
@12 -14 mpg
so, I rerouted the gas line over the exhaust manifold and increased the mpg to about 16-18
(i always carried a fire extinguisher)
one day, while stuck in traffic, I began to worry that the gas was sitting in that gas line heating up
and
undid my modification

that was a great vehicle (bought it when I was in the army)
on weekends, when sleeping in it, I could reach over the front seat and pull the choke and start it up, then, as she warmed up, get up and dressed. Some mornings, the insides of the windows were covered in ice.

(ah to be young again)

 

[billvon]

Was this all a lie?

Nope. Just a broken gas gauge. My second car had one.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

A similar event happened in Moncton, N. B., Canada but the man was a back yard mechanic and he realized that he had an experimental car and carborateur so he refused to sell his car back to the company until he was given SIX MILLION DOLLARS... (if I remember correctly.)


Was this all a lie?

lets put some real modern day numbers on their numbers
a very smart business leader once told me the value of money roughly doubles every 10 years
so we take the 6 million
around 1975 ?
then add 10 years and double it every 10 years
1985 12 million
1995 24 million
2005 48 million
2015 96 million
2002 ? 130 million roughly ?
2025 192 million

what car company boss or corporate(capitalist corporate manager type person) would pay 130 million dollars to a private person to buy their car back off them ?

answer = none !

there are a lot cheaper options than giving away 130 million for the car

they could pay someone 1 million to steal the car
how many highly skilled people would steal a car for 1 million dollars cash ?
hundreds of millions of people would be lining up to steal the car for half that amount of money

so we can clearly see the story doesn't fit with the money

 

[RainbowSingularity]

The myth of some "secret" technology that would give a car super-efficient gas economy is an old one. They come in different variations, but always ends the same way: The technology is "bought up" by some big corporation and then suppressed.
They are just that, myths, with no truth behind them.

hydrogen fuel cell engines are real
i was personally shown a working hydrogen fuel cell engine
around 20 years ago
soo ...(?)

regardless of the type of scam modus operandi in play
does not discount the possible technology

but the magic carburetor story has been around for decades
was it swapped out for propaganda to cover up fuel injection technology and common rail diesel technology ad glo plugs ?
probably

 

[exchemist]

The myth of some "secret" technology that would give a car super-efficient gas economy is an old one. They come in different variations, but always ends the same way: The technology is "bought up" by some big corporation and then suppressed.
They are just that, myths, with no truth behind them.

Quite. Sometimes these silly stories even make it onto TV. I still remember the one about running your car on water. This was built upon a kernel of truth, in that it has been found that water injection at the same time as the fuel can, in some circumstances, lead to an efficiency improvement in the engine, and a reduction in NOx emissions. The TV journalism angle was that the oil companies [boo, hiss] bought the idea up to suppress it. This annoyed me at the time, as I was aware that oil companies like the one I worked for were actually collaborating with builders of marine diesel engines to make it work (there were implications for lubrication).

 

[billvon]

hydrogen fuel cell engines are real
i was personally shown a working hydrogen fuel cell engine
around 20 years ago
soo ...(?)

?? So what?

You can buy a hydrogen fuel cell car today. They are expensive. The fuel is expensive, and since we get it from natural gas, doesn't help much with climate change. It's not anything like a 100mpg carburetor, or even a 100mpg gasoline car.

but the magic carburetor story has been around for decades
was it swapped out for propaganda to cover up fuel injection technology and common rail diesel technology ad glo plugs ?
probably

Nope, they are still around. There's a deep desire in some people to know the "inside scoop" on things that make entities they dislike (like car companies, oil companies etc) look bad.

For example - the 100mpg carburetor conspiracy theory has been around for decades. If car companies every actually sold a car that got 100mpg, you'd expect these very same people to be singing its praises, to be writing to all the papers saying "See? I was RIGHT! It's here, finally!"

In 2000, Honda launched the Insight. It was a two seater that got 70mpg - and hypermilers quickly pushed it to over 100mpg in normal driving. Where were all the conspiracy theorists? They had moved on to the next conspiracy.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Quite. Sometimes these silly stories even make it onto TV. I still remember the one about running your car on water. This was built upon a kernel of truth, in that it has been found that water injection at the same time as the fuel can, in some circumstances, lead to an efficiency improvement in the engine, and a reduction in NOx emissions. The TV journalism angle was that the oil companies [boo, hiss] bought the idea up to suppress it. This annoyed me at the time, as I was aware that oil companies like the one I worked for were actually collaborating with builders of marine diesel engines to make it work (there were implications for lubrication).

no

running a car on water
was all about cracking water to burn the hydrogen gas to run the car on hydrogen gas combustion

the propaganda spin was "running a car on water"

it is common knowledge now

car companies cant afford to make a cheap selling safe car that cracks water
but the direct need for society is to move to electric
not combustion

hydrogen fuel cells were being used to duel fuel cars to attain lower emissions
car companies and oil companies didn't want that known

consequently gas power cars were designed and built
then they became out of fashion because governments would not build the gas infrastructure
it was a war between governments and private industrialists

duel fuel technology along with combustion engine technology was effectively dumped from the mainstream production car market for home consumer over 20 years ago
they knew electric was going to take over

its been a waiting game for the electric technology & governments and culture to catch up

the biggest hurdle which has now become old news is
the difference between having a single large motor
or individualmotors for each wheel
AND battery technology

hence rare earth wars currently going on also impacting medical tech to make pills out of

car battery's
cell phone battery's
computer chips
medication pills ingredients
thats where its at
its now the medieval cultures(& religions) holding back society's advancement

?? So what?

closing with a "they are flouncy liberal leftys comment?

They had moved on to the next conspiracy.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

example
but keeping in mind cracking inside a family passenger car is seen as too expensive to regulate & price
power to weight ratio is an issue also
which is why the huge move to small sized combustion engines is such a big game winner
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envi...drogen-fuel-technology-economy-hytech-storage
That solves the carbon problem, but there are others. The hydrogen in water doesn’t really want to let go of the oxygen (they are “strongly bonded”), so cracking them apart takes quite a bit of energy. The resulting hydrogen has to be stored, either by compressing it as a gas with big pumps or by (weakly) bonding it to something else and storing it as a liquid. That gas or liquid will require a distribution infrastructure. Finally, the hydrogen has to be extracted from storage and converted back to energy, either by burning it or putting it through a fuel cell.


but it was never a fair debate
because the only viable alternative was demanded to be zero emissions and zero pollution as the only possible model to replace combustion

why ?

because electric was already sitting waiting
& zero combustion can match electric on emissions
AND
the power grid is already there
paid for by the government

unlike a gas system required for hydrogen

government can now be guilt tripped into small scale electrical car re-charge building stations and make it look like they are giving something away for free
when they are using working class taxes instead of paying for housing, food & & health care.

im quite tempted to round off with some quip with spite and ridicule in it
but that's not really my style

 

[exchemist]

Hydrogen may however yet prove important in the next great change we all have to face in the decarbonisation of our energy use: domestic heating.

The recent IEA report proposes that we should stop the sale of new gas boilers for domestic heating in 2025 - a mere 4 years away - if we are to have a chance of meeting our target for limiting climate change. Heat pumps are fine for new housing but retrofitting to old houses (like my Victorian one in London) is an expensive nightmare, as the temperature of the water for central heating provided by a heat pump is much lower than that circulating in a gas-fired system. This requires stripping out the entire heating system and installing either large new radiators or underfloor heating: a huge undertaking for a 3 storey house like mine. Who is going to pay for that, for millions of houses?

A neat alternative would be to use the existing gas grid to distribute hydrogen from clean sources and simply retrofit new burners to the old gas boilers, so that they can burn hydrogen. The UK actually did this in reverse when in the 1960s we switched from town gas (a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide) to the natural gas that was coming on-stream from under the North Sea.

The challenge will be to get an efficient electrolysis process at the necessary scale - and to find a market for the massive amounts of oxygen produced.

If that can't be done, then I suppose we could replace all gas boilers by simple electric water heaters - or possibly a heat pump with an electric heater booster or something.

 

[Q-reeus]

All this fool gesturing and pressuring by typically youngish female dominated protest groups within so-called Western societies demanding their nations immediately drastically reduce CO2 emissions totally ignores the two untouchable by them Elephants in the room. That continue building coal-fired generating plants at a feverish pace in order to 'catch up' economically/political stability & power wise with the 'West': China and India.
Reducing 'Western' CO2 emissions to zero will only marginally effect the net increase stemming from just those two offenders in particular.
That China is a 'world leader' in mass producing wind turbines and solar panels in no way cancels out the above ugly facts.
'Western' (actually, Oligarchy controlled) societies in terminal decay refuse to effectively acknowledge that kind of thing.
PS - Dennis do try and learn to spell correctly - it's not 'carborateurs'. Use inbuilt spell checker next time before posting.

 

[billvon]

no

running a car on water
was all about cracking water to burn the hydrogen gas to run the car on hydrogen gas combustion

Nope. That particular conspiracy theory (the water fueled car) was about a pill that turns water into gasoline, or a carburetor that atomized water instead of gasoline in a way that it was combustible, or some other technology that took water and turned it into fuel without requiring more energy to do so. (The technical term is "over unity.") There have been over a dozen fraudsters and just plain misled people who have proposed such systems - the Meyer fuel cell, Aquygen, Genesis World Energy, Genepax, the Dingel system, the Waqar car etc. Most of them went to jail for fraud.

duel fuel technology along with combustion engine technology was effectively dumped from the mainstream production car market for home consumer over 20 years ago

I have a dual fuel car. Millions of flex fuel (gas or ethanol) are built and sold in the US every year.

 

[billvon]

All this fool gesturing and pressuring by typically youngish female dominated protest groups within so-called Western societies demanding their nations immediately drastically reduce CO2 emissions totally ignores the two untouchable by them Elephants in the room. That continue building coal-fired generating plants at a feverish pace . . . .

All this "fool gesturing" as you call it is often ABOUT those coal fired generating plants. They are quite aware of them - and are protesting against them.

Sounds like you object to them as well; does that make your post "fool gesturing?"

 

[Q-reeus]

All this "fool gesturing" as you call it is often ABOUT those coal fired generating plants. They are quite aware of them - and are protesting against them.

Sounds like you object to them as well; does that make your post "fool gesturing?"

We don't like each other but that's no excuse for ignoring or intentionally misrepresenting the thrust of my post. Are all 'universalists' like that?

 

[exchemist]

All this fool gesturing and pressuring by typically youngish female dominated protest groups within so-called Western societies demanding their nations immediately drastically reduce CO2 emissions totally ignores the two untouchable by them Elephants in the room. That continue building coal-fired generating plants at a feverish pace in order to 'catch up' economically/political stability & power wise with the 'West': China and India.
Reducing 'Western' CO2 emissions to zero will only marginally effect the net increase stemming from just those two offenders in particular.
That China is a 'world leader' in mass producing wind turbines and solar panels in no way cancels out the above ugly facts.
'Western' (actually, Oligarchy controlled) societies in terminal decay refuse to effectively acknowledge that kind of thing.
PS - Dennis do try and learn to spell correctly - it's not 'carborateurs'. Use inbuilt spell checker next time before posting.

The protest groups can only mount protests in the countries in which the protesters reside. I mean, they can't very well fly to Beijing or Delhi to protest. In fact, the protests very often demand action at a global level. Greta Thunberg even addressed a full session of the UN. So I don't think they are ignoring any elephants in the room, actually.

Furthermore, there is pressure exerted on India and China by other governments, and China does seem to wish to project a responsible image on this issue. I read an interesting article about the apparent disconnect between the public utterances of the Chinese leadership and the continuing construction of coal power stations. This pointed out that we often make the error of assuming, because the country is a one-party state, that the centre can direct the periphery and change policy at the flick of a switch. In fact, however, they face just the same internal challenges as a country like the US does, when a policy shift occurs. There are disagreements, competing local priorities, contracts that have been already let, etc, etc.

Meanwhile the Chinese capacity for producing low-cost renewable generation for export has helped the world enormously, whatever policy conflicts they have at home.

 

[billvon]

We don't like each other but that's no excuse for ignoring or intentionally misrepresenting the thrust of my post. Are all 'universalists' like that?

I don't like or dislike you, honestly. I don't even know you.

Your stereotyping of protests against CO2 emissions as "fool gesturing" by "youngish females" is both ignorant and bigoted. American protests against CO2 emissions are not composed primarily of young women, and they are protesting CO2 generation (including via Chinese coal power plants) across the world. I suspect you saw a talk by Greta Thunberg, took an instant dislike, and then assumed that all the other protesters are like her. That's not reality; that's just what certain media outlets are showing you.

 

[Q-reeus]

The protest groups can only mount protests in the countries in which the protesters reside. I mean, they can't very well fly to Beijing or Delhi to protest. In fact, the protests very often demand action at a global level. Greta Thunberg even addressed a full session of the UN. So I don't think they are ignoring any elephants in the room, actually.

Furthermore, there is pressure exerted on India and China by other governments, and China does seem to wish to project a responsible image on this issue. I read an interesting article about the apparent disconnect between the public utterances of the Chinese leadership and the continuing construction of coal power stations. This pointed out that we often make the error of assuming, because the country is a one-party state, that the centre can direct the periphery and change policy at the flick of a switch. In fact, however, they face just the same internal challenges as a country like the US does, when a policy shift occurs. There are disagreements, competing local priorities, contracts that have been already let, etc, etc.

Meanwhile the Chinese capacity for producing low-cost renewable generation for export has helped the world enormously, whatever policy conflicts they have at home.

I agree with much of what you say but just look at the actual composition and strident demands of recent times protest throngs. It corresponds to what I stated. And sadly reflects the calculated effect of brainwashing of youth by Marxist/feminist dominated '
educators' or rather indoctrinators in 'Western' co opted educational institutions. Down the gurgler we go.
China's contradictory actions is imo oxymoronic. IF we are truly on the verge of devastating and irreversible CC, pumping out solar cells is no substitute for rapid decommissioning of fossil fuel power plants, let alone knocking out yet more of them at a rate greatly exceeding the combined total in 'the West'. Oh, better humbly add 'imo'.

 

[Q-reeus]

I don't like or dislike you, honestly. I don't even know you.

Your stereotyping of protests against CO2 emissions as "fool gesturing" by "youngish females" is both ignorant and bigoted. American protests against CO2 emissions are not composed primarily of young women, and they are protesting CO2 generation (including via Chinese coal power plants) across the world. I suspect you saw a talk by Greta Thunberg, took an instant dislike, and then assumed that all the other protesters are like her. That's not reality; that's just what certain media outlets are showing you.

See my above reply to exchemist.

 

[billvon]

I agree with much of what you say but just look at the actual composition and strident demands of recent times protest throngs.

Actual composition of protests? In terms of gender, pretty mixed. In terms of age, mostly young. (Which makes sense; they are more affected.)

At the upper levels? There are far more men, and this is actually a bit of a problem. From the Financial Times: "A broad group of female climate leaders have called on the UN climate summit leadership to urgently address a lack of women in the team set to steer next year’s international talks in the UK. More than 400 influential women are seeking changes to the male-dominated leadership for the UN climate talks hosted by the UK in Glasgow, in an open letter addressed to prime minister Boris Johnson and Alok Sharma, the business secretary."

https://www.ft.com/content/ae1f6fba-641e-46c1-a6ba-3d960d0bc9f6

So we actually need to get more women involved, not fewer.

It corresponds to what I stated. And sadly reflects the calculated effect of brainwashing of youth by Marxist/feminist dominated educators' or rather indoctrinators in 'Western' co opted educational institutions.

Marxist and feminist have little to do with each other. (Unless you are a conspiracy theorist, of course.)
And it's funny that education you agree with is "education," and education you don't agree with is "indoctrination." It's a common ploy of the US right wing, but is not working as well any more; people are getting tired of hearing the claim over and over again with nothing to back it up.

China's contradictory actions is imo oxymoronic. IF we are truly on the verge of devastating and irreversible CC, pumping out solar cells is no substitute for rapid decommissioning of fossil fuel power plants, let alone knocking out yet more of them at a rate greatly exceeding the combined total in 'the West'.

By those standards, everyone out there is oxymoronic.
A dieter that continues to eat - oxymoronic.
A environmentalist who buys to-go food - oxymoronic.
An anti-environmentalist who buys gas with 5% ethanol - oxymoronic.

From that perspective, the best we can hope is that all those oxymoronic people (including me and you) make good decisions.