Help with meat addiction

From a macrobiotic standpoint, it seems like you're trying to balance yourself at the extremes - something that is very hard to impossible to do. Your craving for meat is probably related to your high intake of sweets which you mentioned and vice versa. If you're desperate enough for a genuine solution, try incorporating at least 60% of whole grains (brown rice, whole wheat pasta, oats, etc.) into all of your meals and avoiding foods at the extremes (large portions of meat, sugary foods, dairy.) Treat yourself every now and then, and also to test how it affects you.

For every one of my suggestions you'll hear 1000 people toting today's latest agreed-upon nutritional charts - which strangely enough, change pretty much every year.

I would also recommend reading a book on macrobiotics to get acquainted with the yin/yang principle if you're interested enough, specifically one written by George Ohsawa (the founder of macrobiotics in the West.)

Good luck pluto2!
 
jmpet said:
Can one of you avid meat proponents tell me the #1 cause of death in America?
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Heart disease. But it's a myth that it's caused by routine consumption of meat, one which, apparently, you have bought into and are now spreading. Shame on you. You're about twenty years behind the information curve.

If you eat meat that is not overly fat (e.g, foie gras) and you only eat enough food to supply your nutritional needs, your probability of getting heart disease isn't much different from anyone else's. People get atherosclerosis from transfats, and they get transfats from eating commercially processed food full of preservatives.

If you go on yo-yo diets, so one year you're gaining and the next year you're losing, then of course you're going to build up "bad" cholesterol. Duh! Yo-yo dieting is one of the worst things you can do to your body. It's better to stay fat than to lose and gain back the same 50 pounds over and over.

The fact that so many people die of heart disease is simply a measure of how successful we've been at mitigating the major killers of the past. 150 years ago when the life expectancy was 32, nobody lived long enough to be affected by heart disease.

You're going to die of something, I guarantee it. Since it's very unlikely that it will be war, malaria, dysentery, tuberculosis, starvation, food poisoning, overwork, exposure, gangrene, diabetes, syphilis, vitamin deficiency, or any of the other top killers of the 19th century, well then it will have to be something less dramatic, won't it? Heart disease, stroke, cancer, auto accident, household fall, medical error, sporting misadventure... these are the things that kill people now because we've made it very difficult to die from the old causes.

And in the bargain our life expectancy has more than doubled. Sure, you might die of heart disease, but you'll probably be 70-80 when it happens, instead of being caught in the crossfire of a war when you're twenty--or if you're a woman, dying in childbirth.
 
Sorry Fraggle, but you are clearly wrong. The #1 cause of death in America is heart disease and the #1 cause of heart disease is from eating animal flesh. You can dress it up any way you want but you cannot ignore REALITY.

Funny- I have been a Vegan for seven years and I am willing to bet that at 6'4" and 250 pounds, I can kick your meat-meating ass all over the sidewalk- and have the energy left over to run a 10K marathon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNT7uZf7lew

The entire second verse is dedicated to you.
 
jmpet said:
Sorry Fraggle, but you are clearly wrong. The #1 cause of death in America is heart disease and the #1 cause of heart disease is from eating animal flesh. You can dress it up any way you want but you cannot ignore REALITY.
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The #1 cause of heart disease (before old age sets in and you're just spinning the wheel to see what you die from) is overconsumption of saturated fat, particularly trans-fatty acids, which do not occur naturally and must be consumed in manufactured food. Young people do not get heart disease from eating animal fat unless they eat too much of it and get fat.
Funny- I have been a Vegan for seven years and I am willing to bet that at 6'4" and 250 pounds, I can kick your meat-meating ass all over the sidewalk- and have the energy left over to run a 10K marathon.
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I've been a carnivore for 65 years and I don't go around picking fights with disrespectful young punks. At 6'0" and 180 lbs I'm in fine shape, especially for my age. My cholesterol levels are fine, my resting pulse is 60, my BP is still barely ok, I work out three times a week and I have better strength and endurance than a lot of younger people. My major health problems are arthritis, which is an equal-opportunity ailment; allergy-induced asthma from choosing to live in a redwood forest where humidity is 99% year-round and the air is full of mold spores; and some old injuries from a quarter million miles of motorcycle riding.

The tables say that my BMI of 24.4 is just barely within the healthy range but yours of 30.4 makes you "very overweight". That means your body has been storing excess fat and you need to slim down, unless you're one of the small minority of compulsive, usually professional, athletes who is truly "muscle-bound." If you have been assiduously avoiding saturated fats throughout your life you may not have a cholesterol problem. But if in the years before you became a vegan you got so porky by eating processed food full of hydrogenated fats, then your body is a cholesterol silo and, depending on your age, you may already have atherosclerosis.

If that enormous excess of body weight is all muscle, then go for it. But remember to get some good counseling when you get into your fifties and start slowing down. You'll have to retrain yourself to cut your food intake in half to avoid watching all that bulk turn to fat. As it is, many retired jocks can't seem to help accumulating fat in their oversized heart muscles.
The entire second verse is dedicated to you.
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That's a great song, a mainstay of MTV when it first came on the air. But I haven't been too thrilled with Colin Hay's recent solo work.
 
There are lots of protein rich grain combination you can cook. Try cooking rice together with peas, or cook beans and mix them with whole wheat flour (A side souse doesn't hurt). If that will not "satiate" you, nothing will. There are all kinds of cereal combination which are as good as meat (or better) protein wise. That's protein that "satiate" you.

Meat rich diet is not good for ya. Meats+sweets - early disability/grave winning combo, besides you'll spend significant portion of your life on a toilet seat taking a dump (Yup, the more meats the longer sits frequently "fruitless" without pills and fiber).

A trip to farm and butchery would definitely help you to cut on consumption. Industrial meat production is not only cruel, it produces rubber tasting tasteless shit for meat. Just take salt and pepper away and the grocery meats you eat transform miraculously into tasteless piles of red colored substance.

I'm not sure about Romans, who lived way above 20 btw, but when a "developing" nation embraces meat rich western diets, it embraces spike in heart deceases and diabetes too.
 
Eating meat is good for you - just make sure you are eating lean meat. Don't eat too many fatty meats such as bacon or other pork, beef, etc

Try going for chicken, turkey, and fish (those are the best meats; low fat and high in protein)

And don't listen to the vegan or any vegetarians for that matter, eating meat is part of a healthy eating plan and avoiding it is absurd.
 
Norsefire said:
And don't listen to the vegan or any vegetarians for that matter, eating meat is part of a healthy eating plan and avoiding it is absurd.
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I agree reasonable amounts of meat are good for a diet- like 3 oz. per serving, 8oz. per day. That says nothing for that 16 oz. T-Bone you had last night or the triple Whopper with extra bacon and cheese you had for lunch today.

Unless I am wrong, of course. But the evidence on both sides of the fence links meat to heart disease to death.
 
That's because that meat is fatty meat, high cholestoral meat, etc


I'm talking about lean meats like fish and chicken, turkey
 
Methinks you need to get some help. That's a freaky addiction that is bad for your health. Better go see a professional.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
The whole cholesterol thing has been revised. There's now "good cholesterol" and "bad cholesterol." But the fact remains that if you eat only a maintenance diet and don't put on weight, you're burning all the fat you eat rather than storing it, and you won't build up any cholesterol.Humans are predatory carnivores. Our entire body and metabolism is adapted for hunting, killing and eating meat, from our sharp incisors and our binocular vision to our short intestines (by primate standards) and our long-distance running ability. It wasn't until we invented the technology of cooking that we were able to eat any part of a plant besides the easily-digestible fruit and seeds. And it wasn't until we invented the technology of farming, a mere eleven thousand years ago, that there were enough fruits and seeds available--including grains, which are seeds--to make up a significant portion of our diet.

Humans are predatory carnivores.
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LOL... humans aren't carnivores and they definitely didn't evolve from carnivores. Humans evolved from apes and apes ate fruits! Humans are omnivorous.

That may damage your image that you have of yourself, but deal with it. We've always been able to digest that stuff. And we can eat tons of it raw. Meanwhile, enjoy eating raw meat. That'll do wonders for your health.
 
Saven said:
That may damage your image that you have of yourself, but deal with it. We've always been able to digest that stuff. And we can eat tons of it raw. Meanwhile, enjoy eating raw meat. That'll do wonders for your health.
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The dangers of raw meat are due to the risk of parasites and infection from microorganisms. It would make little difference to your body to break down raw versus cooked meat. We're cooking it so that everything alive in the meat dies, not so it's easier to digest.
 
High intake of meat has been linked to colorectal cancers which is probably related to the poor roughage content of meat diets. As long as you're getting everything you need, nutritionally speaking, its not a problem where you get it from. What is important is to make sure you drink plenty of liquids and get sufficient roughage. High protein diets cause more ammonia production and can cause constipation. The hunter gatherer diet was the staple for several centuries of humans and if you avoid processed sugars and fats and add whole fruits and salads to your diet, it should not be a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet
 
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Saven said:
LOL... humans aren't carnivores and they definitely didn't evolve from carnivores. Humans evolved from apes and apes ate fruits! Humans are omnivorous.

That may damage your image that you have of yourself, but deal with it. We've always been able to digest that stuff. And we can eat tons of it raw. Meanwhile, enjoy eating raw meat. That'll do wonders for your health.
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I love sushi and used to eat a ton. Never hurt me. And, sugar lips, we're omnivores.
 
Orleander said:
is raw or cooked meat easier to chew? Or is that only dependent on the cut/age of the meat?
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Cooked red meat is almost always easier to chew. Raw bird isn't bad, but has a horrible consistency. Small enough animals are easy to eat, as all the parts are bite sized. Otherwise, uncooked meat is quite chewy. A thoroughly cooked steak can easily be ground up by your chompers, while an undercooked one is much more difficult to grind up. The tissues stay together better. Of course, the more tender the cut and the more rotten your meat, the easier it will be to chew.

I say easy to chew as in easy to turn into a swallowable, disassociated quantity. Bubblegum would be harder to chew than a cooked potato, in this system, since a mouthful of bubblegum is pretty hard to chew into swallowable pieces.
 
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