Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by arauca, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    I have to agree here, I really expected this to be moved to pseudoscience by now. Very surprised that it hasn't been. Perhaps because some legitimate science is being presented as arguments against the OP? I'm sure there is some good reason that it is still here, even if it totally escapes my mind right now.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    I don't know.

    It's not clear how one can live without fear of loss to begin with.

    Other than, of course, with a heavy dose of ego defense mechanisms. Those work well. They can make a person think they are happy when miserable, right when they are wrong, and make any number of contradictions and impossibilities seem like they make perfect sense.


    The evolutionary puppet master?


    Ah, Freud would love this one!
    How you slipped, in your eagerness.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    And yet you can't or are unwilling to explain the details.
    Moreover, you presume that the people who are not as content as you, derive this discontentment from their religious upbringing, psychopathology, or both - and for no other reason.



    What's your point?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,576
    Where is the slip up, here?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    It is possible to derive satisfaction from just knowing what reality is. Also I don't think Trooper or anyone presumed that someone less content must derive their discontentment from religious upbringing, psychopathology or both. Some people are not content because they feel there is injustice. Some people are not content because they want more than they have. Contentment, and what brings it, is unique from one person to the next. Not all atheists are content, neither are all theists. I don't think there is any measurable consistency or correlation between contentment and opinions on faith.

    some people just have a happy disposition and others almost seem to fight happiness at all costs. Humans are funny that way.
     
  8. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    ??

    How can that be??


    Unless, of course, you mean that some people are reluctant or refuse to engage in particular activities that some people claim make them happy.

    For example, some people claim that eating chocolate makes them happy; but this isn't yet proof that the true nature of eating chocolate is happiness.
     
  9. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,106
    Well, good publicity for his book that he will no doubt publish.
     
  10. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    It means happiness is a choice. We are happy because we choose to be. Emotions can be chaotic or one can take control of their emotions. It depends of if you choose to be a proactive or reactive person. All choices still. It's kind of like being in river (life), you can float along in a motor boat(our emotions) and go with the flow or you can turn the engine on and take control of where you end up.
     
  11. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    What?

    So you're happy simply by telling yourself you're happy?
     
  12. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Yes, as simple and goofy as it sounds, it can and does work. I can't explain it any better than scientists can explain why/how gravity works, it just does.
     
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    If it "works" for you, it doesn't mean it "works" for everyone.

    If it "works" for you now, it doesn't mean it will "work" for ever.
     
  14. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    Perhaps, but I can only answer you from my own experience. I obviously can't proclaim to know what makes everyone tick. But now at least you know how at least one atheist can be happy in spite of knowing the world will someday end as we know it, we will cease to exist, and we make no difference at all in the grand scheme of things.
     
  15. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058

    Uh.

    It has been already clearly established that there are people who claim they can be happy with impermanence.

    And yet, just like them, you are unable or unwilling to explain the specifics of that, other than merely claiming that "it is possible" and that you do it by telling yourself that you're happy.

    Obviously, not everyone can make themselves happy merely by telling themselves "I'm happy."
     
  16. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    I'm sorry, what about "I tell myself to be happy" is unclear or unspecific to you? No, really. Either you somehow find that statement unclear, or you're lying about her being unspecific. Which is it?

    No, really.

    Tough cookies. Who claimed that in order for happiness to be legitimate, it must be accessible by some homogenized process?

    Instead of you spamming this forum with this dishonest BS, how about you support your claim that happiness isn't possible in the face of impermanence? You make this claim--either directly or by insinuation--in every thread that even remotely touches on the subject, yet you've never once supported it. Instead, you go on the offensive and act like everyone else has something to prove. Stop being a fraud.
     
  17. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,503
    I find our impermanance and irrelevance liberating. It means that we can't screw anything up. We could blow ourselves up and it wouldn't even register as a mild dissonance in the cosmic chord.

    I find that strangely comforting.
     
  18. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    You are miswording what I meant. I am not TELLING myself that I am happy. I am CHOOSING to be happy. There is a difference. It's like telling myself I am eating spaghetti vs choosing to eat spaghetti. They have different meaning. I can tell myself that I am eating spaghetti right now but it doesn't make it true. However if I choose to eat spaghetti right now it implies that I am actively taking steps to actually eat spaghetti and will result in my actually eating spaghetti.

    In this sense CHOOSING to be happy is far different that merely telling myself that I am happy.
     
  19. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    I agree. It's nice to know that no matter how I behave, I will not suffer an eternity of life. Whether in heaven or hell. I don't see either as a good alternative. Eternal life seems boring.
     
  20. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,784
    Ditto, Captain Obvious! It is odd, though, isn't it? How “the future influences the present just as much as the past.” ~Nietzsche
     
  21. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    And what do you do in this "choosing to be happy"?
    Are there any discernable actions in this?


    How do you know that??
     
  22. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,058
    I suspect you're not telling us the whole story.


    There's a Jewish principle, it goes in roundabout like this:
    In your left pocket, always carry a note that says "For my sake was the world created."
    In your right pocket, always carry a note that says "I am nothing but dust."
    When you are feeling elated and things seem to be going really well for you, read the note from your right pocket.
    When you're feeling sad and nothing seems to be going your way, read the note from your left pocket.
     
  23. seagypsy Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,153
    The actions are discernible to me. Usually it involves forcing myself to look at things from another point of view. Intentionally seeking out the silver lining within a cloud. Or actively ignoring something that would otherwise disturb me but have no other real detriment to my life. Like if Balerion calls me an asshat. I have a choice. I can choose to remain happy by ignoring his remark, disregarding it as inconsequential to my true being, or I can choose to take offense to it, allow the comment to have a stronger affect on me emotionally than is rationally called for. I can allow my happiness to be disrupted by giving credence to the remark and validating it by behaving like an asshat in return.

    It is up to me how I respond, emotionally and in action. He then can choose how to feel about my reaction to his comment. And this choosing goes back and forth on a constant basis.


    As for how I KNOW I won't live forever, well it is based on evidence. The lack of evidence to the contrary is enough by my judgement to conclude that there is no afterlife. There is no way to prove with any absoluteness one way or the other, but my conclusion is based on solid evidence or the lack there of.
     

Share This Page