Hate Speech on Sciforums

[(Q)]

You think an unchanging medium is the better option? We call that inflexibility. Postulates that cross space and time are more flexible than that. Like morality and the US Consttution. Rigid documents have a limited lifespan and no application beyond a limited time. I'm surprised [or not] that you prefer more rigid and fixed ideas.

So, the Quran is a book you can change whenever you want, to suit your purposes? What would Allah say about that? Or, Muhammad? Wouldn't you have your head removed from your body for talking about such things?

 

[leopold]

What would Allah say about that?

on your knees muthafuka!

Or, Muhammad?

got pussy?

Wouldn't you have your head removed from your body for talking about such things?

glad i'm not muslim.

 

[Zakariya04]

So, the Quran is a book you can change whenever you want, to suit your purposes? What would Allah say about that? Or, Muhammad? Wouldn't you have your head removed from your body for talking about such things?

hummm unfortunately everyone use everything they can too justfiy there own opinion or stance, i do it all the time espicially with the staff handbook!! But seriously i do it with the quran, my dad woill do it my best mates mum will do it with her bible, you will even do it with the Quran depending on how you or i or sam is arguing!!

In my opinion, i am usualy wrong but i will tell you anyway, religious books are used as a guide in helping you lvie your life, also they need to be applied correctly (if anyone knows whats that means or is)

ok i give up now as i am jibbering a bit!!

 

[GeoffP]

well yes at this point in time religion and politics shoudl not be mixed and i dont know when they should be mxied either, however regardless of religion people will still be cunts espicially if they gain from it

Right but let's do present day. Pat Robertson is almost in his coffin, so that leaves bigger falafel to fry.

 

[S.A.M.]

So, the Quran is a book you can change whenever you want, to suit your purposes? What would Allah say about that? Or, Muhammad? Wouldn't you have your head removed from your body for talking about such things?

You cannot change it, its less flexible than the US Constitution. But what you read in it depends on what you want to read in it. Ultimately, its your own choice what you wish to make of your religion.

 

[Zakariya04]

You cannot change it, its less flexible than the US Constitution. But what you read in it depends on what you want to read in it. Ultimately, its your own choice what you wish to make of your religion.

yep, religion is a very personal thing IMO

 

[(Q)]

You cannot change it, its less flexible than the US Constitution. But what you read in it depends on what you want to read in it. Ultimately, its your own choice what you wish to make of your religion.

Then, it is our choice what we wish to make of your religion? And what we want to read in it is what we choose?

You're one of the worst hypocrites I've ever seen.

 

[S.A.M.]

Then, it is our choice what we wish to make of your religion? And what we want to read in it is what we choose?

You're one of the worst hypocrites I've ever seen.

You miss the point. My choice = my religion. Your choice = your religion. You don't get to make any choices on my behalf.

 

[DiamondHearts]

The bigots seem to be the most likely to personally attack other members.

I suggest the moderators do something about a poster calling me a bold-faced liar when I quoted from a religious scripture, with no evidence to support his allegations.

The Quran is clear, but some Non-Muslims wish to create a feeling that it is not so. We take the whole Quran and not simply a piece like some of the bigots to judge the overall message of Islam.

Again, what a fitting place for this conversation: Hate Speech on Sciforums.

No matter how much the haters and bigots detest the Quran, they know their allegations against it are faulty. That is why they will not debate anyone about it.

 

[(Q)]

You miss the point. My choice = my religion. Your choice = your religion. You don't get to make any choices on my behalf.

Hypocrite. I can choose to make of your religion whatever I want without making any choices on your behalf. The problem is that your religion negatively affects people and societies, therefore the choice is no longer yours to make.

 

[(Q)]

The bigots seem to be the most likely to personally attack other members.

I suggest the moderators do something about a poster calling me a bold-faced liar when I quoted from a religious scripture, with no evidence to support his allegations.

Liar. I provided many verses from the Quran as evidence.

The Quran is clear

That's why I quoted from the Quran, but you chose to ignore those quotes.

No matter how much the haters and bigots detest the Quran, they know their allegations against it are faulty. That is why they will not debate anyone about it.

Liar, we ARE debating and you are losing miserably, hence whining about your loss.

 

[leopold]

i think its telling that a thread about hate speech is rife with religious overtones.

 

[GeoffP]

You miss the point. My choice = my religion. Your choice = your religion. You don't get to make any choices on my behalf.

So then the justification of the execution of apostates in islam is faulty or not?

No matter how much the haters and bigots detest the Quran, they know their allegations against it are faulty. That is why they will not debate anyone about it.

More spin. You didn't respond to any of my comments; the reasons are clear as to why.

 

[Zakariya04]

Hypocrite. I can choose to make of your religion whatever I want without making any choices on your behalf. The problem is that your religion negatively affects people and societies, therefore the choice is no longer yours to make.

Q,


obviously i am not one to talk about being positive as i often go off on rants but religion whether islam, christianity, judaism or hinduism etc can also be used for postives, but it is the way people in high postion chose to use them which is the problem, i think.

Unfortunately we all suffer from negativity (well ok i am generalising here), i often do espically with my negative rants which are nothing short of a tirade of swearing, but even when we lare presented with postive things like the thread i created in world events which nobody espicailly the guys who mainly see doom and gloom about islam and how muslims are, bothered to post, which i found a bit saddening, but hey i probably do it too...

so what positives do you see from Islam???

 

[S.A.M.]

So then the justification of the execution of apostates in islam is faulty or not?.

Since the justification is political rather than religious, the question is moot.

Also, its not from Islam, but from Muslim scholars:

Classical Hanafi doctrine holds that the capital punishment of the apostate serves mainly political aims. I quote two famous Hanafi jurists from Central Asia on this matter. The first is the eleventh-century Transoxanian jurist Sarakhsi, one of the major authorities of the Hanafi school. He says:

The change of religion and the original form of unbelief
belong to the most abominable of crimes. But [their judgment]
is a matter between God and his servant and the punishment
[of this crime] is postponed until the hereafter.
The measures advanced in this base world [and which thus
precede God's judgment] are matters of political expediency
[siyasat mashru'a] ordained by the law in order to protect
human interests" (Sarakhsi, n.d., vol. 10: 110).

In the same vein, the twelfth-century Hanafi jurist Marghinani, whose book al-Hidaya exerted a lasting influence on the Hanafi jurists of the Near East, states his position with the following words:

In principle, punishments are postponed to the hereafter
and the fact that they are advanced [so that they precede
the hereafter] violates the sense of probation [as the sense
of human life in this world]. One deviates from this principle
in order to defy a present evil and that is warfare
[against the Muslims] ('Ayni, vol. VI: 702-703). (2)

Scholars can have many opinions

Another reason the Islamic world flourished during this period was an early emphasis on freedom of speech, as summarized by al-Hashimi (a cousin of Caliph al-Ma'mun) in the following letter to one of the religious opponents he was attempting to convert through reason:[12]

"Bring forward all the arguments you wish and say whatever you please and speak your mind freely. Now that you are safe and free to say whatever you please appoint some arbitrator who will impartially judge between us and lean only towards the truth and be free from the empary of passion, and that arbitrator shall be Reason, whereby God makes us responsible for our own rewards and punishments. Herein I have dealt justly with you and have given you full security and am ready to accept whatever decision Reason may give for me or against me. For "There is no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256) and I have only invited you to accept our faith willingly and of your own accord and have pointed out the hideousness of your present belief. Peace be with you and the blessings of God!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

 

[(Q)]

so what positives do you see from Islam???

None, Zak. Islam is slavery based on superstition and myth from medieval times. It could only be positive if it were treated as a fairy tale of superstition and myth.

 

[Zakariya04]

None, Zak. Islam is slavery based on superstition and myth from medieval times. It could only be positive if it were treated as a fairy tale of superstition and myth.

what............... absolutely none what so ever...???????????


for example the giving to charity (zakat) is that not good either??

maybe i didnt ask the question properly, i am not talking about how people practice it but some of the ideas of the religion?

 

[(Q)]

for example the giving to charity (zakat) is that not good either??

I don't need a holy book to force me to be charitable? Why would you?

maybe i didnt ask the question properly, i am not talking about how people practice it but some of the ideas of the religion?

I've read the Quran, Zak. It's an interesting piece of literature very much like the bible is an interesting piece of literature. And like the bible, there are many disturbing things in the Quran, things that might have been relative and acceptable to medieval men, but are not relative or acceptable to the modern age.

I can read Aesop's fables or Grimm's fairy tales and find good ideas in them as well, but that doesn't mean I'm going to believe animals could talk, nor am I about to worship those animals as gods.

 

[Zakariya04]

hey Q

the charity thing was just an example...

you talk like some guy i heard on the radio her claimed that just cos he read a book on thor doesnt mean thor exists and thats why God doesnt exist... But i guess it all depends on what you mean by God

As for reading the Quran and Bible, i ahve read them both, not in one good obviously as my attention span is not that great but over time..

 

[(Q)]

you talk like some guy i heard on the radio her claimed that just cos he read a book on thor doesnt mean thor exists and thats why God doesnt exist... But i guess it all depends on what you mean by Godd

The same thing that the Quran means by god is pretty much the same thing as Thor, a myth.

As for reading the Quran and Bible, i ahve read them both, not in one good obviously as my attention span is not that great but over time..

Quite disturbing, aren't they? Both books are relative to ancient times when myths and superstitions ruled the world. Are you still ruled by myth and superstition, Zak?