Morning, Grumpy. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Mate, why do you persist with all these irrelevant philosophical soliloquies and 'non-explanations' instead of listening to the science presented to you in real empirical terms not just more of your impressions based on abstract interpretations of observations? Get once and for all that observation, measurement, calculation and prediction based on abstractions may be and has been useful, but in no way do they EXPLAIN the underlying reality in terms of entities/mechanisms. That is what EINSTEIN was trying to do in his later years by trying to marry Quantum Mechanics with the GR concepts. But he failed, because his PARTIAL abstract math model and the the PARTIAL math model of QM cannot either in concert or separately ever become a COMPLETE reality model. Obviously, else the professional Relativists and QMers would have come up with the complete reality (not abstract math only construct) model of the universal physics, including GRAVITY without all the multi-universe and 'brane/String and other math-turbative desperations in lieu of actual understanding the reality itself instead of going further and further away from it via math abstractions which Einstein himself saw the encroaching and misleading incomprehensibility potential of way back when! You haven't even acknowledged Sir Roger Penrose's explanation of what 'time' is and is not in reality terms. Nor have you acknowledged Sean Carroll et al's real experimental tests that prove reality energy-space at its fundamental level is flat Euclidean and extending to infinity beyond observable universal volume.....which makes the BB 'beginning' and other "non-Euclidean' interpretations/hypotheses of energy-space a non-starter and highly suggests that all observations purporting to 'support' BB, Inflation, expansion etc 'geometries' have been MISINTERPRETED to 'fit' the BB biased 'theories', not facts indicating eternal and infinite universal processing energy-space extent fundamentally. Grumpy, as a friend in both science and humanity, I urge you to stop the waffling and presenting abstraction and philosophy 'overlays' and 'interpretations' and 'impressions' of what you think it all means. Go back a re-read all that you've been told lately in more REAL EMPIRICALLY BASED terms and understandings/distinctions, and try to read them without old blinkers on. Just folloow the real things and drop the UNreal things you have accepted AS 'real'. Then you might want to come back and apologize to at least Maxila for unfairly treating him so nastily without any real justification at all in reality. as distinct from your biases which have led you into arrogant dismissals and personal insults of fairly put points and the persons putting them. Don't keep killing the messenger because you don't 'get' the real message that is evolving in the mainstream TOO even as we speak. Try to have no hard feelings, Grumpy, Maxila, everyone....life's too short! Good luck and enjoy your future discussions! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!