Fundamental or nearly fundamental energy and the origin of Intelligence?

Would Intelligence begin in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy?

  • No

    Votes: 4 66.7%
  • Yes

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • I would tend to think so at least????

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6
Dennis:

the effect of near death experiences on the people who have had them is impressive. Even the researchers quoted in various Psychology Today articles on the topic seemed to
have felt that these accounts had some sort of psychological value.........
even if it was just to give people at least some sort of "hope" or sense of value in the larger scheme of things.
What about people who just have a brush with death, but who do not have a "near death" experience?

People who have traumatic experiences in which they are in mortal danger, or come close to death, often come out of such experiences with an altered outlook on life. Almost dying often brings a sense of focus. It doesn't have to be a mystical or religious thing.

There are at least two ways of looking at the fact that NDE accounts or something like them actually have a number of ways of being generated......
some of which can be done under what appears like "laboratory conditions."
I am one of those people who tend to think that this tends to verify that there is something "real" about these.....
my guess at this time would be a connection between our "over soul" as former Atheist and near death experiencer Mellen Benedict termed it.....
for the part of our memories, identity or personality that seems to exist even before we were born or even conceived????????
You use words like "my guess" and "seems" and similar terms a lot, Dennis. Maybe you should stop guessing so much. Start with the facts, and don't go running off on wild flights of fancy before you have the facts.
 
I began to read String Theory for philosophical reasons...... not because of a background in Physics.
Did you read it because you were looking for something to confirm what you already believed, regarding near death experiences, religion and so on? That's not what a good critical thinker would do. Ideally, you should be looking for things that challenge your existing views, not just things that you think might confirm them. You should concentrate more on those aspects of string theory that do not support your beliefs about "The void" or religion or near death experiences, or whatever.

If you only ever go searching for things that will confirm your beliefs, then that's exactly what you'll tend to find. This is called "confirmation bias". To think critically, you have to adopt the position that you might be wrong, before you start looking at the evidence.

Yes... I do believe that Mr. Mellen Benedict did indeed gain knowledge on higher invisible dimensions during his brush with death and......
due to whatever increased intellectual capabilities he got during his NDE that he would be able to use every day from the time of his NDE until his eventual death?????
What evidence, other than his say-so, is there that Mr Mellen Benedict gained "increased intellectual capabilities" from a near-death experience? Is there anything?

More interestingly, you say you believe he gained knowledge on higher invisible dimensions. Do you have access to that knowledge? Did he tell anybody? Is there anything in that "special" knowledge that is new to science, or it is all just the vague kinds of anecdotes you've previously posted, concerning "The void" and all that mystical nonsense that has no checkable content?

The very fact that a WHITE SUBSTANCE was added to the Stanley Meyer hydrogen fuel dune buggy in a USA court of law............
indicates that the judge on the case was willing to go down in history as one of America's most cowardly and / or corrupt...... justices.......
I assume due to the level of political influence from which the order came for him to allow that to happen in his court??????

Stanley Meyer on the other hand may well have TURNED DOWN an offer of a billion dollars or so for his technology but..... he knew the buyer would put it on a shelf and hide it. Stanley Meyer seemed to sincerely think that his technology could positively transform the world economy and eventually save millions of lives.
I don't know who Stanley Meyer is, or how any of this is relevant to what we've been discussing. Can you explain?
No... I am not educated in the physics necessary to understand String Theory properly......
but.....
IF NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCER DR. GEORGE RITCHIE was telling the truth about his 1943 NDE
then... fifty years from now our grandchildren may consider that my having read the NDE of DR. George Ritchie with an open mind.........
There's an open mind, and there's a mind so open that your brains fall out.

The most important question is this: what have you done - or what are you going to do - to work out whether Dr George Ritchie's reports about his NDE contain any useful information, as opposed to being merely worthless anecdote?

may be in some ways a better background than that of somebody with a Doctorate in Theoretical Physics......
who for dogmatic and simplistic reasons writes off the Dr. George Ritchie quite interesting testimony that sounds a lot like
String Theory as it was worded in the 1990's.... on at least a number of important levels?!
What is it about Ritchie's "testimony" (read "story" or "tall tale") that "sounds a lot like string theory", specifically? What "important levels" are you referring to?

I mean, so far, your links between string theory and other things have been incredibly tenuous. Is the Ritchie stuff any better?

I'm not clear on what you're claiming. Are you claiming that Ritchie found out things about string theory during his NDE that working physicists didn't know in the 1990s? Is that what you're saying? If so, isn't that something for which we could find evidence? Where is the evidence, then?
 
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My bias AGAINST the traditional Darwinian Model of Evolutionary Theory that I was taught around 1968 or 1969 is rather obvious.
Maybe you weren't taught about the theory of evolution very well. Maybe you didn't understand it. Maybe you still don't understand it.

My all time record for being disfellowshipped from Christian churches is two.....
all in about one month back in 1991.....
but they did me a favour. I no longer fitted in either church due to my no longer by that time being willing to believe in the Soul Sleep Theory that Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong had taught me when I was a teenager. That theory had greatly assisted in bringing me out of Atheism beginning around 1973 when I was fourteen. I had been an Atheist from the time I was about eight.. .until I began to listen to Garner Ted.
Interesting.

You claim you became an atheist at age eight, and stayed an atheist until age 14.

What were your beliefs before age eight? What made you decide, at age eight, that you were an atheist?

And then, at age 14 an evangelist convinced you to do back to God. Was that because you found the "soul sleep" theory to be convincing evidence for God, at that time, or were there other reasons?

As an atheist at the time, what value did you place on the need for evidence for God, as a precursor to belief? Did you, at 14, discover some appropriate evidence for God, or did you return to religion for a different reason?

And then later, you fell out with Armstrong's church because you no longer believed his "soul sleep" theory (whatever that is). Does that bring us up to date? What do you believe now about God? Do you belong to a different church now?

What was it that made you stop believing in the "soul sleep" theory - so much that you spoke up or did something to get yourself "disfellowshipped"? Did you replace the "soul sleep" theory with some other belief - a new belief in something else, perhaps?

What do you now believe, and why?
 
Dennis:


What about people who just have a brush with death, but who do not have a "near death" experience?

People who have traumatic experiences in which they are in mortal danger, or come close to death, often come out of such experiences with an altered outlook on life. Almost dying often brings a sense of focus. It doesn't have to be a mystical or religious thing.


You use words like "my guess" and "seems" and similar terms a lot, Dennis. Maybe you should stop guessing so much. Start with the facts, and don't go running off on wild flights of fancy before you have the facts.

Dr. Maurice Rawlings found out that a high percentage of the seventy to eighty percent of near death experiencers
who REMEMBER NOTHING from the time they flatlined .... had a less than fun near death experience that scared them so badly that they repressed the memories of
their somewhat negative NDE.

Dr. Rawlings was both a cardiac surgeon but also trained to be able to hypnotically regress his patients to the time of
their surgery in which they flatlined.

Here is a two minute video that describes how and why Dr. Maurice Rawlings got into this topic.........


It literally scared the hell out of me - The near death experience of Dr Maurice Rawlings


This longer video goes into much more detail....
I personally purchased Dr. Maurice Rawling's book during the 1990's but I think I gave it to somebody else.

Dr. Maurice Rawlings - To Hell and Back Documentary MUST WATCH!!!


Perhaps it was those negative near death experience accounts that actually got me
somewhat obsessed with the possible value of NDE testimony as perhaps becoming know
to contain what may soon be known to be nothing less than "Evidence for Applied Multiverse Theory.?"

Sunset tonight begins Passover......
and I am one Messianic Gentile or Christian who has been interested in perhaps becoming
an observant Jew because I find that the lectures by near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava
fit perfectly with many of the really shocking evidence from near death experience accounts.

Applied Multiverse Theory.....
applied by an entity that would begin.... and evolve in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.....
over infinite time in the past.... not in merely thirteen point eight billion years but within eternity.....
leads to the following conclusion........... for the long term fate of all humans.....

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/gay/christian-andreason.html#a04h
h. Who goes to heaven?
In the end ... believe it or not (sigh of relief), everyone gets to come home! Heaven is a place of ultimate LOVE. When we have learned how to become individuals that base our entire existence and consciousness around manifesting LOVE, we then become capable of entering the domain of the higher Realms of Heaven. If we do not practice Love, we can only go so far and we will be made to incarnate somewhere out there in God's super Universe again and again (unlimited times) until we learn.



 
Did you read it because you were looking for something to confirm what you already believed, regarding near death experiences, religion and so on? That's not what a good critical thinker would do. Ideally, you should be looking for things that challenge your existing views, not just things that you think might confirm them. You should concentrate more on those aspects of string theory that do not support your beliefs about "The void" or religion or near death experiences, or whatever.

If you only ever go searching for things that will confirm your beliefs, then that's exactly what you'll tend to find. This is called "confirmation bias". To think critically, you have to adopt the position that you might be wrong, before you start looking at the evidence.


What evidence, other than his say-so, is there that Mr Mellen Benedict gained "increased intellectual capabilities" from a near-death experience? Is there anything?

More interestingly, you say you believe he gained knowledge on higher invisible dimensions. Do you have access to that knowledge? Did he tell anybody? Is there anything in that "special" knowledge that is new to science, or it is all just the vague kinds of anecdotes you've previously posted, concerning "The void" and all that mystical nonsense that has no checkable content?


I don't know who Stanley Meyer is, or how any of this is relevant to what we've been discussing. Can you explain?

There's an open mind, and there's a mind so open that your brains fall out.

The most important question is this: what have you done - or what are you going to do - to work out whether Dr George Ritchie's reports about his NDE contain any useful information, as opposed to being merely worthless anecdote?


What is it about Ritchie's "testimony" (read "story" or "tall tale") that "sounds a lot like string theory", specifically? What "important levels" are you referring to?

I mean, so far, your links between string theory and other things have been incredibly tenuous. Is the Ritchie stuff any better?

I'm not clear on what you're claiming. Are you claiming that Ritchie found out things about string theory during his NDE that working physicists didn't know in the 1990s? Is that what you're saying? If so, isn't that something for which we could find evidence? Where is the evidence, then?

At the time that I began reading these NDE accounts, 1989 or 1990.....
they put me through a pretty serious philosophical crisis that led to my
parting ways from the Worldwide Church of God that I had been involved with since 1973 when I was thirteen or fourteen.

NDE accounts and somewhat related information soon led me to researching even the evidence for reincarnation, which I now take very seriously, so I no longer even fit in in any
major Christian church and I am seriously wondering if I might fit in in a Jewish Synagogue as a "Noahide" once our home in
Nova Scotia sells because if we do as planned and move to the Greater Toronto Area, I would be able to attend a synagogue regularly?


The fact that a significant percentage of near death experiencers seem to go through a surge in IQ as well as other intellectual gifts....
some near death experiencers have to run away from their electronic equipment if they feel certain emotions coming on because
they will somehow so affect some types of sensitive electronic equipment so that it will no longer work once they are around it.....

... .while in certain states of consciousness??????

Near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai went from an IQ of 106 up to 159 after his brush with death.

Dr. Bruce MacDonald had an even more major surge in IQ and tested over 220 after his second NDE.

Christian Andreason for example......
after his brush with death wrote a book that corresponds with information from the paranormal that I read
a great deal of since 1990.

His conclusions all across the spectrum of the paranormal fit with some of the research that has been done.

For example... his teachings on reincarnation fit well with the Dr. Ian Stevenson research as well as with the Helen Wambach Ph. D. research.

How did Mr. Christian Andreason know all these things from his brush with death??????


http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

We are vibrational Beings
When you take away the way we look, our clothing and even our skin, underneath it all...we are actually vibrational beings made of energy. While most of us may have forgotten (because we are currently caught up with playing the role of being human) this 'energy' is our true or authentic form. It is 'our energy' that is seen by the Spirit World and also by us once we are taken outside of our current physical body at the moment of transition or during the moment we human's call, "physical death". However, it will be in this moment many of us will once and for all give up any fear of death or doubt of an afterlife, as we will immediately realize and completely remember our total connection to the Spirit World.

The moment will be magnificent, and as you allow yourself to notice, you will find that you are being surrounded by one exploding epiphany after another! You will realize the wonder behind all Creation, and you will know, absolutely, that God is certainly real, eternal and atomically thriving; in you and in every single manifested object! You will understand that all things and events hold an intrinsic purpose and for even one of them to go missing, this would tear a huge gulf into the very fabric of time and space. To consider this using human intellect may seem meaningless, but from the perspective of Spirit you will see how vital all things in Creation are and how they all fall perfectly in sync to a masterfully, intelligent design. And then lastly, you will come to realize what an amazing being in Creation YOU ARE! There is no one like you in all of God's Super Universe and there never will be again. You are so important to all of Creation that without you, even "God" would cease to exist. I know...incredible, huh? Well, it is true, and the most wonderful thing about it is .... God would not have it any other way! We are LOVED that much!

..... Chapter five is on reincarnation:
I saw that I had been both wealthy and poor, man and woman, sick and well, royalty and common personand even victor or villain Yet, I fully understood that each life was vital and going on for a much needed purpose.

Every lifetime, I learned, is orchestrated by our guides and the Elders to flow perfectly with one anotherteaching us something important about life, the Self, the Self of others, our Creator and the potential that exists within the Super Universe that surrounds us all. For the first time I had a comforting sense of trust that no matter what happened to a person in life, only good could ultimately come from it, as down the road God eternally works all things to a good end.

As I looked down the opposite side of the hall, I saw a kind of oval room that connected yet another long hall way. I understood that this hallway represented my so-called 'future' lives I was still very much connected to in Heaven. " (Christian Andreason, chapter five)
 
He is qualified to fly many types of jets......
people who take pilot training take a lot of tests.
Frankly...... he was invited to fly F-16's.... no kidding!
So what?
That doesn't give ANY figures for an IQ score, let alone corroborate an increase.
 
So what?
That doesn't give ANY figures for an IQ score, let alone corroborate an increase.

Dr. Kevin Zadai gave the figures for his pre NDE IQ in one of his lectures.....
I took twenty four online courses by him since January of 2020.....
they were in shockingly simple and easy to understand English... My wife did five courses by him last week.

If I had not ran into many similar accounts I might have been more skeptical of his assertions relative to that shift.

Near death experiencer Dr. Bruce MacDonald described his own IQ test after his second brush with death.
….." Hi again,I have been involved in another discussion about Near Death Experiences and my latest entry to that forum might be of interest, especially since it gives a more detailed description of the NDE and also takes up some of the objections which some of the more materialist members of the forum had brought to bear against the valididty of NDEs as accurate reflections of some aspect of human experience. So here is my posting from that forum:



I kind of wonder whether I should get into this, because I know the powerful resistance (even fear) of those who think this is all nonsense, but since I had a very detailed NDE in 1966, I might as well. I have had hallucinations because of illness and medical drugs, have had lucid dreams and ordinary dreams, as well as many experiences in meditation of what one might call `transcendance` but the NDE was nothing like any of those. It is quite distinct as a life experience, and had a profound effect on my life – actually changing the direction of my life completely. I had intended to become a minister in the United Church of Canada and instead got a PhD and became a university English Professor, exploring the roots and dynamics of creativity and the relationship between consciousness, culture, ideology and art. Also, one would think that the possible oxygen deprivation of these experiences (NDEs) would cause some brain damage and thus a decrease in IQ, but quite to the contrary, it seemed as if my abilities were increased by the experience and I was able to achieve intellectual things which had been beyond me before the NDE. In the ten years from June 1966 to June 1976, including the seven months in hospital in 1966, I was able to complete a BA, MA and PhD from three different universities, teach full time for four years at three universities, get married and have two children. The NDE gave me an impetus to achieve which I did not have at all before that. Hallucinations do not have that kind of effect.



Below I quote the description of the NDE from The Thomas Book, a book I wrote about the NDE and its aftermath, which was published in 2009, ironically after a severe case of viral encephalitis which wiped out most of my memory. After that illness I had to rebuild my memory banks and my ability to write, since I could not sign my name, copy numbers from a bill to a cheque or remember the names of people I had known for years before the encephalitis in 1991. I used meditation to recover my memory and wrote about that experience as well as providing a text book to learn that kind of healing meditation in The Prayer of Silence (2011). That these experiences are put into books does not support the argument that they are being exploited to make money. Rather they point to the tremendous motivation to share the experiences because they are seen as evidence of hope in life in a world which tends to denigrate anything which suggests hope beyond the bare minimum of materialist reductionism.



After the encephalitis, with its severe memory loss, and while I was still suffering from its effects, a neuropsychologist at the University of Regina ran me through a whole battery of tests, including IQ tests. He said that the tests demonstrated a pattern of memory loss which is specific to encephalitis. One would expect in that state of still suffering from memory loss and from the effect of the serious brain damage from the illness that my IQ would have been reduced considerably. When I asked him what my IQ was he said, `I don`t know.` I asked, `What do you mean, you don`t know, you did a whole battery of IQ tests.` (They involved many different kinds of IQ.) He replied, `I can`t measure your IQ because you topped out on all my tests. It is like trying to measure the temperature in a hot room when your thermometer only goes up to a level which is lower than the temperature in the room and you don`t know how much higher the temperature actually goes.` I asked Buddy what IQ has been measured with these tests and he suggested that the highest he had heard of, off hand, was 220. If that is the case, then my IQ, in spite of the NDE and the encephalitis is somewhere above that, it would seem.



This is not to boast, but to point out that many people who have NDEs have the same experience, of having their intellect suddenly expanded in ways they had not been aware of before the experience. It is as if the NDE opens intellectual doors which had been closed before that experience. Again, hallucinations do not do that…… (Bruce Fraser MacDonald PhD)
 
In other words the IQ claims are unsubstantiated.

No..... the Psychology Today article did verify that aspect of the formula to at least some degree way back in 1992.

Bright Lights, Big Mystery | Psychology Today
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/bright-lights-big-mystery?page=4

For Sappington and others, the issue is not whether the person is actually meeting God, but why NDErs routinely seem better adjusted, more at peace and content with themselves and the world after their experience. Disregarding, for the time being at least, how they got that way, and focusing on the changes themselves, psychologists would like to borrow this newfound sense of well-being and utilize it in therapy.
Reports are highly consistent and common: "I understand things so much more" and "My senses all seem heightened." Subjects claim "sudden knowledge and comprehension of complex mathematical theorems." Psychologist Ring has identified a consistent set of value and belief changes. They include:
a greater appreciation for life
o higher self-esteem
o greater compassion for others
o a heightened sense of purpose and self-understanding
o desire to learn
o elevated spirituality
o greater ecological sensitivity and planetary concern
o a feeling of being more intuitive, sometimes psychic.
o He also observes "psychophysical changes," including:
o increased physical sensitivity
o diminished tolerance to light, alcohol, and drugs
o a feeling that their brains have been "altered" to encompass more
o a feeling that they are now using their "whole brain" rather than just a small part.
NDErs undergo radical changes in personality, and their,significant others--spouses, friends, relatives--confirm these changes, reports Bruce Greyson, M.D., clinical psychiatrist and associate professor at the University of Connecticut. Like Sappington, he is concerned with what can be learned from such new outlooks on life." (Psychology Today, article Bright lights, big mystery, by James Mauro, published on July 01, 1992)

You are probably aware that during the LDS tests of the 1960's some of the highest IQ scores ever recorded were one result?

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.01424/full

DMT Models the Near-Death Experience
 
No..... the Psychology Today article did verify that aspect of the formula to at least some degree way back in 1992.

Bright Lights, Big Mystery | Psychology Today
Nothing about a possible IQ increase and, more pertinently, nothing that corroborates the two specific claims about individuals.
You are probably aware that during the LDS tests of the 1960's some of the highest IQ scores ever recorded were one result?
DMT Models the Near-Death Experience
LDS?
Again, nothing about IQ increase or the guys in question.
It does, however indicate that NDE could simply be a "drug overdose", not an actual experience of the "afterlife".
 
Nothing about a possible IQ increase and, more pertinently, nothing that corroborates the two specific claims about individuals.

LDS?
Again, nothing about IQ increase or the guys in question.
It does, however indicate that NDE could simply be a "drug overdose", not an actual experience of the "afterlife".

If that is what you get out of the article.......
that is your choice.......

o desire to learn
o elevated spirituality
o greater ecological sensitivity and planetary concern

o diminished tolerance to light, alcohol, and drugs
o a feeling that their brains have been "altered" to encompass more
o a feeling that they are now using their "whole brain" rather than just a small part." (Bright Lights, Big Mystery, Psychology Today, 1992)



That was written in 1992.... more work has been done since then.....
Do a search for Dr. Ken Ring if you actually want to understand this better.
 
Dr. Maurice Rawlings found out that a high percentage of the seventy to eighty percent of near death experiencers who REMEMBER NOTHING from the time they flatlined .... had a less than fun near death experience that scared them so badly that they repressed the memories of their somewhat negative NDE.
How did he find out they had a "less than fun" NDE if they remembered nothing?
Dr. Rawlings was both a cardiac surgeon but also trained to be able to hypnotically regress his patients to the time of
their surgery in which they flatlined.
Ah, hypnosis.

The problem there is that people who are hypnotised become very susceptible to suggestion and fantasy. False memories can be "implanted" by hypnosis. There's lot of evidence of this.

It seems very likely to me that Dr Rawlings implanted false memories of "less than fun" NDEs in his hypnosis subjects.

What do you think about that?

Sunset tonight begins Passover......
and I am one Messianic Gentile or Christian who has been interested in perhaps becoming
an observant Jew because I find that the lectures by near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava
fit perfectly with many of the really shocking evidence from near death experience accounts.
So belief in Jesus is not very important to your faith? NDE is much more important to you? Why?
 
At the time that I began reading these NDE accounts, 1989 or 1990.....
they put me through a pretty serious philosophical crisis that led to my parting ways from the Worldwide Church of God that I had been involved with since 1973 when I was thirteen or fourteen.
From my reading, the Worldwide Church of God was going through a whole lot of internal problems at that time, so maybe you were searching around for something else to believe in?

Have you read the wikipedia article?

Grace Communion International - Wikipedia

Were you uncomfortable with the Worldwide Church of God's move towards more mainstream evangelical doctrines, including acceptance of the Holy Trinity? It sounds a bit like you still agree with ideas such as the Sabbath. What about Armstrong's views on "British Israelism"?

It seems to me that Herbert Armstrong was something of a cult-like leader. He married a woman 50 years younger than him. He preached some unorthodox ideas that are incompatible with the more "mainstream" ideas of various other Christian churches. He maintained an iron grip on the way that his church was run. None of it sounds very healthy for his followers. It sounds like you may have been wise to get out. I just hope you didn't replace one cult belief by a different one, in the process.

NDE accounts and somewhat related information soon led me to researching even the evidence for reincarnation, which I now take very seriously, so I no longer even fit in in any major Christian church and I am seriously wondering if I might fit in in a Jewish Synagogue as a "Noahide" once our home in Nova Scotia sells because if we do as planned and move to the Greater Toronto Area, I would be able to attend a synagogue regularly?
Reincarnation is not a belief that Jewish people ascribe to.

But I'm interested in your views on Jesus. Do you believe Jesus was the Messiah? What about the Second Coming? Do you believe the End Times are coming sometime soon (or that we're already in them)?

You realise that Judaism does not accept that Jesus was the Messiah, right? Is that also your belief, as you say you're thinking of converting to Judaism?

I'd be interested in your results on the following survey, too:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/wh...religious-spiritual-beliefs-2021-poll.164029/

Note: I'm not recommending this as a method for choosing a religion, or anything like that, but it might give you some insight into which religions most closely match your actual views on various things. If you'd like to share, I'd be interested - maybe post in that thread.
The fact that a significant percentage of near death experiencers seem to go through a surge in IQ as well as other intellectual gifts....
I've seen no good evidence that they do.
some near death experiencers have to run away from their electronic equipment if they feel certain emotions coming on because they will somehow so affect some types of sensitive electronic equipment so that it will no longer work once they are around it.....
I don't believe that. It would be very easy to test. Are you aware of any such tests being done, under controlled conditions? If not, then does that concern you at all? Do you wonder why no rigorous tests of that type have ever been done on near death experiencers?

Near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai went from an IQ of 106 up to 159 after his brush with death.

Dr. Bruce MacDonald had an even more major surge in IQ and tested over 220 after his second NDE.
I don't believe them. Not without some evidence other than their own testimony. Why do you believe them?

What's more likely: that they are making it up, or that they actually have off-the-scale IQs following their NDEs?
 
Near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai went from an IQ of 106 up to 159 after his brush with death.

Dr. Bruce MacDonald had an even more major surge in IQ and tested over 220 after his second NDE.

I don't believe them. Not without some evidence other than their own testimony. Why do you believe them?

What's more likely: that they are making it up, or that they actually have off-the-scale IQs following their NDEs?

Highlighted ; neither do I .
 
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An IQ from 106 to 159 is extremely significant .

As it is a 220 IQ .

That is exactly my belief as well.

I have listened to hundreds of hours of lectures by near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai and he does impress me
as having had a surge in IQ up to around the 159 range......
which is especially interesting considering that he is Pentecostal...... just like my wife.....
but his over view of the world as one part of a vastly larger Multiverse.... is kind of amazing..... especially considering his
philosophical background in a movement noted for rather dogmatic and black and white thinking on so many questions!
 
From my reading, the Worldwide Church of God was going through a whole lot of internal problems at that time, so maybe you were searching around for something else to believe in?

Have you read the wikipedia article?

Grace Communion International - Wikipedia

Were you uncomfortable with the Worldwide Church of God's move towards more mainstream evangelical doctrines, including acceptance of the Holy Trinity? It sounds a bit like you still agree with ideas such as the Sabbath. What about Armstrong's views on "British Israelism"?

It seems to me that Herbert Armstrong was something of a cult-like leader. He married a woman 50 years younger than him. He preached some unorthodox ideas that are incompatible with the more "mainstream" ideas of various other Christian churches. He maintained an iron grip on the way that his church was run. None of it sounds very healthy for his followers. It sounds like you may have been wise to get out. I just hope you didn't replace one cult belief by a different one, in the process.


Reincarnation is not a belief that Jewish people ascribe to.

But I'm interested in your views on Jesus. Do you believe Jesus was the Messiah? What about the Second Coming? Do you believe the End Times are coming sometime soon (or that we're already in them)?

You realise that Judaism does not accept that Jesus was the Messiah, right? Is that also your belief, as you say you're thinking of converting to Judaism?

I'd be interested in your results on the following survey, too:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/wh...religious-spiritual-beliefs-2021-poll.164029/

Note: I'm not recommending this as a method for choosing a religion, or anything like that, but it might give you some insight into which religions most closely match your actual views on various things. If you'd like to share, I'd be interested - maybe post in that thread.

I've seen no good evidence that they do.

I don't believe that. It would be very easy to test. Are you aware of any such tests being done, under controlled conditions? If not, then does that concern you at all? Do you wonder why no rigorous tests of that type have ever been done on near death experiencers?


I don't believe them. Not without some evidence other than their own testimony. Why do you believe them?

What's more likely: that they are making it up, or that they actually have off-the-scale IQs following their NDEs?

In one way it is a really good thing that you do not believe them because
both Dr. Kevin Zadai as well as Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D. are in a position where
their becoming rather famous and / or infamous, if and when the evidence comes out
regarding their surge in IQ......
this could result in so many new people reading their books that a significant decrease
in tensions between religions is the most likely result.

Here is a discussion that I began in all seriousness based on my thinking about the NDE of
Bruce F. MacDonald for about a year and a half.......



Your nomination for Nobel Prize in Literature?
My recommendation is:

images


On pages 137 to 170 in this book.....the number one cause of anti-Semitism by Christians over these past eighteen centuries is addressed.........(brilliantly I might add)....... and it could be argued that the author also address anti- Semitic activity by Muslims........ over the past twelve centuries.........

I will now send you a little personal message with a summary of what is written on pages 137 to 170 in this book but here is an example of it.


http://www.thomastwin.com/6 A Thomas background.html

http://www.thomastwin.com/7 A Thomas samples.html
 
Ignorance by laziness is my fav pass time though.

I'm really good at it.


This article might just get you inspired.... by at least an increased one to three percent......
which might just lead to your accomplishing more in the upcoming week than I did in the previous decade?!

Is your brain really a computer, or is it a quantum orchestra tuned to the universe?
https://www.interaliamag.org/articl...it-a-quantum-orchestra-tuned-to-the-universe/


Stuart Hameroff’s research involves a theory of consciousness developed over the past 20 years with eminent British physicist Sir Roger Penrose. Called ‘orchestrated objective reduction’ (‘Orch OR’), it suggests consciousness arises from quantum vibrations in protein polymers called microtubules inside the brain’s neurons, vibrations which interfere, ‘collapse’ and resonate across scale, control neuronal firings, generate consciousness, and connect ultimately to ‘deeper order’ ripples in spacetime geometry. Consciousness is more like music than computation.

I could be wrong.....
I very often am.....
but I personally think that within twenty years it may become common knowledge that Dr. Chaim Tejman was actually doing a pretty good job of writing and illustrating a similar idea but......
when Hebrew is your first language what you attempt to say may tend to offend many people whose first language is English?!
 
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