So... I've been watching some videos on youtube. Probably a mistake, right there. Recently, I discovered a physicist (going by the name "Dr Blitz", for those who are interested) whose channel has started recently. He has a call in show where, among other things, he invites flat earthers (or "flerfers", which is an appropriately cute name for them, I think) to call in and explain why they believe the Earth is flat. It makes for interesting viewing, in small doses.
It could just be an artifact of social media algorithms, which are designed to promote controversy and acrimony, but I get the impression that "globe denialism" is on the rise at the moment. This seems to be mostly a US phenomenon, but it's not entirely restricted to the US. The UK seems to have its fair share of flerfers, judging by the callers.
Until recently, I haven't really paid any attention to the flat earth people because, frankly, I've always considered it to be a fringe conspiracy theory that is too stupid to merit any serious investment of time. Now, while I remain of the opinion that it's a silly fringe conspiracy theory, I think it's worth spending a little time on it - if for no other reason than to get a realistic picture of just how badly the education system is failing some people.
It is tempting to think that nobody who espouses flerferism could really believe it. Surely, they must all be trolls who are just playing a game and "punching up" at perceived "elites" (e.g. people who went to a university or a decent high school). But that doesn't seem to be the case. While, almost certainly, there are trolls who know that the flat earth is stupid, it seems that there's a not insignificant group of people who honestly believe that the Earth is flat.
What are the common characteristics of these people who say the Earth is flat? Here are my impressions, based on watching too many youtube "debates" about the flat earth.
1. They universally lack an education in science. Or, if they were ever taught any science, they were taught to memorise lists of "facts" to be accepted without question. They weren't taught about the methods of science or why we accept any of it. Many of them can't name a single living scientist.
2. Generalising, most of them have a very limited knowledge of the world beyond their immediate environs and their daily life. Their educational level is, usually, at an early highschool stage.
3. They tend not to have travelled more than a few hundred kilometres from the place they grew up. If they are American - as most are - then they have never travelled outside the United States, and many haven't travelled very much in the US either. Their knowledge of geography is rudimentary at best.
4. They are mostly men - although this could due to a biased sample. Probably ignorant men are more likely than ignorant women to want to argue about stuff they are ignorant of in public on social media.
5. They believe that the "globe earth" is a myth that is put out by a massive conspiracy. The conspiracy certainly involves all scientists and the government. A lot of flerfers also believe that a secret global cabal is running the world. More than a few flerfers are anti-semites who believe that the secret cabal is a Jewish conspiracy. But sometimes it's the "illuminati" or the Freemasons, or a combination of one or more of these. These people need a conspiracy theory or four, because how else can they explain all the apparent "fakery" of the abundant evidence for the spheroid Earth?
6. They often believe in further conspiracy theories that are unrelated to the flat earth.
7. A lot of them are very religious and rely on religious texts - especially the bible - as support for their belief in the flat earth. However, there are also non-religious flerfers, and some who believe the religion is "in on it" - the Catholic Church is an oft-named conspirator.
8. Since their flat-earth hypothesis is largely unworkable, they also usually have to go to great lengths to deny obvious things - the existence of outer space is common one. Rockets can't go into space. Obviously, nothing has ever gone to the moon. etc.
9. They typically refuse to even look at evidence that refutes the flat earth. When it is presented to them, they just deny it (without giving any valid reasons, of course) and/or try to change the topic.
10. They spend most of their time trying to make arguments against the "globe earth" and very rarely make arguments for the flat earth.
11. A favourite debating technique of a lot of flerfers is the Gish Gallop, which involves jumping from one topic to another without allowing time for any real consideration of the arguments for and against any one topic.
12. They are disorganised thinkers. When they talk, their ideas don't connect to one another in a logical sequence.
13. A lot of them seem to have trouble maintaining concentration - a bit like people with ADHD (which, for all I know, might have a higher prevalence among flerfers).
14. Another oft-seen debating technique - in oral debates anyway - related to the Gish Gallop, is to just keep talking and never stop to listen to anything the opposition has to say. When they are asked to repeat what their globe-earth opponent has literally just told them, most of them are unable to do it, because they were talking all the time while the other person was explaining. It's like they think that they can win by literally shouting down their opponents.
15. Loyalty to the cause is an non-negotiable requirement of flerferism. Any flerfer who has doubts or - worse! - changes his mind, is dead to the flerfer community. Nobody wants to know why he changed his mind. They want to forget he ever existed in the first place.
16. Dunning Kruger is strong in these people. An almost universal characteristic in all of them is supreme confidence that they are right, combined with little or no knowledge - not just about the subject matter of their beliefs, but also about how to go about finding out whether they are right or wrong.
17. Related to the Dunning Kruger is the common belief that there are no experts. In the flerfer world, if you're a yoga instructor flerfer then chances are high that you believe you know as much or more than an astrophysicist about matters such as geometry, geography, physics, gravity, mathematics, measurement, and more. After all, you've watched some flerfer youtube videos that make (flawed) arguments for the flat earth. That's equivalent to a Ph.D in physics, surely!
18. Flerfers, who are unfamiliar with science, tend to believe that science education is merely a matter of memorising dogmatic "facts". Flerfers will refer to science educators as "high priests of science", who are supposedly revered and never questioned by their obedient followers, all of whom are content never to question the orthodoxy. In other words, flerfers think that science is basically a religion. Which, again, is understandable, since all of them are unfamiliar with science, while a lot of them are very familiar with one (almost always just one) religion.
Anyway...
I'm starting this thread because (a) I'm interested in whether any of our regulars have come across the flat earth community - believers in the flat earth - and if so what your experience of them has been; and (b) because it seems likely that, sooner or later, we'll get one or two flerfers floating in here and trying there luck. It seems like it's worth having One Thread to Rule them All on this topic.
Also, if anybody is interested in posting about some good arguments against the flat earth, please feel free. Fine if you want to wait until we catch a live flerfer, though.
If you're a regular and a closet flerfer, please feel free to give us your best arguments.
If you're new to sciforums and you believe the earth is flat, welcome! Let us know if you're interested in learning some science.
It could just be an artifact of social media algorithms, which are designed to promote controversy and acrimony, but I get the impression that "globe denialism" is on the rise at the moment. This seems to be mostly a US phenomenon, but it's not entirely restricted to the US. The UK seems to have its fair share of flerfers, judging by the callers.
Until recently, I haven't really paid any attention to the flat earth people because, frankly, I've always considered it to be a fringe conspiracy theory that is too stupid to merit any serious investment of time. Now, while I remain of the opinion that it's a silly fringe conspiracy theory, I think it's worth spending a little time on it - if for no other reason than to get a realistic picture of just how badly the education system is failing some people.
It is tempting to think that nobody who espouses flerferism could really believe it. Surely, they must all be trolls who are just playing a game and "punching up" at perceived "elites" (e.g. people who went to a university or a decent high school). But that doesn't seem to be the case. While, almost certainly, there are trolls who know that the flat earth is stupid, it seems that there's a not insignificant group of people who honestly believe that the Earth is flat.
What are the common characteristics of these people who say the Earth is flat? Here are my impressions, based on watching too many youtube "debates" about the flat earth.
1. They universally lack an education in science. Or, if they were ever taught any science, they were taught to memorise lists of "facts" to be accepted without question. They weren't taught about the methods of science or why we accept any of it. Many of them can't name a single living scientist.
2. Generalising, most of them have a very limited knowledge of the world beyond their immediate environs and their daily life. Their educational level is, usually, at an early highschool stage.
3. They tend not to have travelled more than a few hundred kilometres from the place they grew up. If they are American - as most are - then they have never travelled outside the United States, and many haven't travelled very much in the US either. Their knowledge of geography is rudimentary at best.
4. They are mostly men - although this could due to a biased sample. Probably ignorant men are more likely than ignorant women to want to argue about stuff they are ignorant of in public on social media.
5. They believe that the "globe earth" is a myth that is put out by a massive conspiracy. The conspiracy certainly involves all scientists and the government. A lot of flerfers also believe that a secret global cabal is running the world. More than a few flerfers are anti-semites who believe that the secret cabal is a Jewish conspiracy. But sometimes it's the "illuminati" or the Freemasons, or a combination of one or more of these. These people need a conspiracy theory or four, because how else can they explain all the apparent "fakery" of the abundant evidence for the spheroid Earth?
6. They often believe in further conspiracy theories that are unrelated to the flat earth.
7. A lot of them are very religious and rely on religious texts - especially the bible - as support for their belief in the flat earth. However, there are also non-religious flerfers, and some who believe the religion is "in on it" - the Catholic Church is an oft-named conspirator.
8. Since their flat-earth hypothesis is largely unworkable, they also usually have to go to great lengths to deny obvious things - the existence of outer space is common one. Rockets can't go into space. Obviously, nothing has ever gone to the moon. etc.
9. They typically refuse to even look at evidence that refutes the flat earth. When it is presented to them, they just deny it (without giving any valid reasons, of course) and/or try to change the topic.
10. They spend most of their time trying to make arguments against the "globe earth" and very rarely make arguments for the flat earth.
11. A favourite debating technique of a lot of flerfers is the Gish Gallop, which involves jumping from one topic to another without allowing time for any real consideration of the arguments for and against any one topic.
12. They are disorganised thinkers. When they talk, their ideas don't connect to one another in a logical sequence.
13. A lot of them seem to have trouble maintaining concentration - a bit like people with ADHD (which, for all I know, might have a higher prevalence among flerfers).
14. Another oft-seen debating technique - in oral debates anyway - related to the Gish Gallop, is to just keep talking and never stop to listen to anything the opposition has to say. When they are asked to repeat what their globe-earth opponent has literally just told them, most of them are unable to do it, because they were talking all the time while the other person was explaining. It's like they think that they can win by literally shouting down their opponents.
15. Loyalty to the cause is an non-negotiable requirement of flerferism. Any flerfer who has doubts or - worse! - changes his mind, is dead to the flerfer community. Nobody wants to know why he changed his mind. They want to forget he ever existed in the first place.
16. Dunning Kruger is strong in these people. An almost universal characteristic in all of them is supreme confidence that they are right, combined with little or no knowledge - not just about the subject matter of their beliefs, but also about how to go about finding out whether they are right or wrong.
17. Related to the Dunning Kruger is the common belief that there are no experts. In the flerfer world, if you're a yoga instructor flerfer then chances are high that you believe you know as much or more than an astrophysicist about matters such as geometry, geography, physics, gravity, mathematics, measurement, and more. After all, you've watched some flerfer youtube videos that make (flawed) arguments for the flat earth. That's equivalent to a Ph.D in physics, surely!
18. Flerfers, who are unfamiliar with science, tend to believe that science education is merely a matter of memorising dogmatic "facts". Flerfers will refer to science educators as "high priests of science", who are supposedly revered and never questioned by their obedient followers, all of whom are content never to question the orthodoxy. In other words, flerfers think that science is basically a religion. Which, again, is understandable, since all of them are unfamiliar with science, while a lot of them are very familiar with one (almost always just one) religion.
Anyway...
I'm starting this thread because (a) I'm interested in whether any of our regulars have come across the flat earth community - believers in the flat earth - and if so what your experience of them has been; and (b) because it seems likely that, sooner or later, we'll get one or two flerfers floating in here and trying there luck. It seems like it's worth having One Thread to Rule them All on this topic.
Also, if anybody is interested in posting about some good arguments against the flat earth, please feel free. Fine if you want to wait until we catch a live flerfer, though.
If you're a regular and a closet flerfer, please feel free to give us your best arguments.
If you're new to sciforums and you believe the earth is flat, welcome! Let us know if you're interested in learning some science.
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