EYE-rock? EE-rock? ...

I enjoy the English accent, but I do wish English actors and actresses would pay more attention to the American accent when portraying Americans.
Yes, they do seem to have a very hard time mastering our vowels. We pronounce almost every one differently. Their "call" sounds like our "coal," except it's not a diphthong. To compensate they tend to pick a regional dialect (such as the Texan you mention) and exaggerate it without really getting it quite right, so it doesn't even sound like us Yankees when we imitate Southerners. Even the Aussie and Canadian faux-country/western singers do better than that. ^_^ Monty Python liked to do American sports jock dialect and it sounded pretty silly coming from a business executive. For American women, they always picked Dustin Hoffman's "Tootsie," a case study in a man mastering feminine patterns and only coming up with a parody of them. I wonder if our actors sound just as silly to them when they try to do British accents.
I really don't have a problem with accents. I grew up around people from various nations.
That's our secret, the Melting Pot. I suspect it's only the last couple of generations of British people who have everyday contact with peers who speak with foreign accents. We hear phonemes that aren't part of our paradigm all the time and our brains absorb them. So when we want to pronounce one it's already in there and only our vocal apparatus has to adapt.
I have but one question for those who are fluent in non-English languages; why do they put genders on inaminate objects? I'm curious what the origins of that are.
It's really complicated and I don't fully understand it. But if you understand that biological sex is only a subset of grammatical gender, you'll be on your way to making peace with it. Remember that Indo-European also had a neuter gender, which survived into Latin, Greek, proto-Germanic, and old Slavonic (and I don't really know about the other nodes on the family tree like Sanskrit and proto-Celtic). German, Modern Greek, the Slavic languages and Romanian (unique among the Romance languages because of the influence from Slavonic) still have it (and I don't know about the Indo-Iranian, Celtic, Baltic, Albanian, Armenian, etc. descendants). When you realize that there are three grammatical genders, it puts the biological aspect into a better perspective. I suppose it was natural for our Mesolithic ancestors to assign male and female animals consistently to two of those three genders but I'm unaware of any theories as to how or why it happened in that particular way. BTW gender is by no means universal among non-Indo-European languages. And in addtion to English, I believe the Scandinavian languages have lost it and perhaps for the most part even Dutch, leaving German and its cousin Yiddish alone in our branch of the family in their retention of it.
(PS: I prounce it uh-RAK and uh-RAN.
That's just a schwa, the indistinct neutral vowel into which unaccented vowels degenerate in many languages including German and French. It's the name of a Hebrew vowel which has become silent in the modern language (the nearly universal ultimate fate of the schwa), which was resurrected artificially from the liturgical pronunciation of many generations of Jews whose primary language was something else.
Mother-in-law calls China "Chiner" but pronounces Russia, Dakota, and other -a names without the "er" sound. I have no idea why China is singled out in her dialect.
That's a northeastern American dialect pronunciation. Most of us speak an idiolect comprised of bits and pieces of the dialects we've been exposed to. My wife lived with a British girl in her late teens and 35 years later she still talks about "hoovering" the carpet instead of "vacuuming" it. Americans think that's a rather cute Britishism so that has reinforced her unconscious tendency to hang onto it.
I'm from California, which, according to an old friend from Virginia, is the only place he's heard people prounce words without an accent. ???)
I wasn't born there but I lived there since my freshman year in college. With my combination of Chicago and Arizona speech I did not notice any "accent" in L.A. but I now notice Chicago and Arizona dialect pronunciation so I obviously adopted it. I have the same experience. No matter where I go in the U.S., no one has ever commented on my accent. A good part of the reason for that, of course, is Hollywood. Newscasters in Boston, Newark, Atlanta and Dallas sound more like the Angeleños in their network offices every day (curiously not like the equally influential-in-other-matters Manhattanites) so the people in those cities are accustomed to hearing it. The same thing is happening on a much larger canvas in hispanophonic Latin America. As the casts of TV shows produced in every country are increasingly multinational, they have standardized on the speech of Mexico as "neutral." They even send them to dialect schools so that soap opera families don't sound like Papá is Argentine but los niños are somehow from Honduras and Venezuela.
 
I hope you realize that there's no "right" English, both from a linguistic standpoint and from an official one. Linguistically, British English and American English, as well as all the other Englishes, are just dialects of one English language. None can claim they speak the true English language, even the English, especially considering that the English language is not regulated by any language authority in the way other languages are. There is no English equivalent to the Asociación de Academias de la Lengua Española.

Also, are we not Englishmen too? Remember, they did help colonize this part of the world.

No, you kicked the english out so now you're just a bunch of people who can't spell or pronounce anything correctly.



Do you not know the English you claim is superior? If you did, you'd know I was talking about "LITCH-ruh-lee". Not this mutilated "LIH-'er-uh-lee" you're talking about.

Who says "litchrulee"? People in Britain mostly use the glottle stop when pronouncing that word. I have never heard anyone say "lichrulee".
 
I enjoy the English accent, but I do wish English actors and actresses would pay more attention to the American accent when portraying Americans. I was watching this one show on BBC America and the actor playing a Texan was doing a fine job. He was a stereotypical wealthy landowner and had the swagger down pat. The only thing that threw the image off was his pronunciation of the word 'ceremony'. He pronounced it "SIR-munee" where just about any American would have said "SAIR-uh-moh-nee".

Whatever he said I'm sure it was better than Keanu Reeves in Dracula....
 
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I enjoy the English accent, but I do wish English actors and actresses would pay more attention to the American accent when portraying Americans.

Ha! Reminds me of this:

"Why should the people follow you?" "Because, unlike some other Robin Hoods, I speak with an English accent."
- Men in Tights
 
Whatever he said I'm sure it was better than Keanu Reeves in Dracula....
No one ever played the role like George Hamilton in "Love at First Bite." Communist Party bureaucrats, finally succeeding where generations of peasants with torches and pitchforks had failed, came to nationalize his castle.

Susan St. James: "Want to come up to my place? I've got a bottle of really nice wine from Bordeaux, and some pretty good shit from Colombia."

George Hamilton, with his best faux-Romanian accent: "I do not drrrink... vine."

Pause.

"And I do not smoke... shit."
 
I just heard something funny. It was a documentary about volcanoes, and the British guy who was talking was concerned about an increase in geyser activity in Yellowstone National Park. Now, here in the US, that word is pronounced GUY-zer. This fellow pronounced it GEE-zer. Ah, in the US, a "geezer" is a cranky old man. Lousy senior citizens! :D
 
No, you kicked the english out so now you're just a bunch of people who can't spell or pronounce anything correctly.

Says who? You? The guy who's not English? A non-English guy has the authority to say who's speaking English and who isn't?

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
Who says "litchrulee"?

Some British people.

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
People in Britain mostly use the glottle stop when pronouncing that word. I have never heard anyone say "lichrulee".

Then you're listening to the wrong people. I hear it all the time. Maybe you're only hearing some local dialect and not, you know, "the" English language you claim is so correct.

Which reminds me: What of Cockney accents? And Yorkshire? Cumbrian? Lancashire? Geordie? After all, they're all English too. Or are you talking about the Received Pronunciation, a variety of English that's only spoken by five percent of British people?
 
I just heard something funny. It was a documentary about volcanoes, and the British guy who was talking was concerned about an increase in geyser activity in Yellowstone National Park. Now, here in the US, that word is pronounced GUY-zer. This fellow pronounced it GEE-zer. Ah, in the US, a "geezer" is a cranky old man. Lousy senior citizens! :D

In the "UK" a "geezer" is slang for a man. As in "That geezer's 'avin a larf."

Do you all still pronounce "buoy" as "boo-ey"?
 
Says who? You? The guy who's not English? A non-English guy has the authority to say who's speaking English and who isn't?

No, the english do. Please try to keep up.



Some British people.

Not as far as I've heard, and, well, I live there.

Then you're listening to the wrong people. I hear it all the time. Maybe you're only hearing some local dialect and not, you know, "the" English language you claim is so correct.

I live here. I am sure my exposure to British dialects is a lot higher than yours.

Which reminds me: What of Cockney accents? And Yorkshire? Cumbrian? Lancashire? Geordie? After all, they're all English too. Or are you talking about the Received Pronunciation, a variety of English that's only spoken by five percent of British people?

I'm talking about the people who write the dictionaries. It's fairly well acknowledged that anyone with a "local" dialect, or even an "accent" in most cases (and yes, that includes yank accents) can't speak their own language properly. I know a Brazilian who writes english better than most english people can, but that doesn't change anything.
 
No, you kicked the english out so now you're just a bunch of people who can't spell or pronounce anything correctly.

I wanna add: Do you think you're more authoritative, or know more, than Wikipedia? Because I've just done some reading, and this is what I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Dialects_and_regional_varieties

English is a pluricentric language, without a central language authority like France's Académie française; and although no variety is clearly considered the only standard, there are a number of accents considered as more formal, such as Received Pronunciation in Britain or, formerly, the upper-class Bostonian dialect in the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluricentric_language

A pluricentric language is a language with several standard versions. This situation usually arises when language and the national identity of its native speakers do not coincide.

[...]

For example, English is a pluricentric language, with marked differences in pronunciation and spelling between the United Kingdom and the United States, and a variety of accents of those and other English-speaking countries. It is usually considered a symmetric case of a pluricentric language, because no variety clearly dominates culturally. Statistically, however, American English speakers constitute more than 70% of native English speakers, with British English in second place at 16% and other varieties having less than 5% each.
 
No, the english do. Please try to keep up.

I've never heard an authority based in England say that their variety of English is more right than ours. This was my point. You're falling behind, not I. Care to point me to someone who has indeed said this?

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
I live here. I am sure my exposure to British dialects is a lot higher than yours.

And this is why I don't believe you when you say no one says "lit'rally".

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
I'm talking about the people who write the dictionaries.

http://www.m-w.com/
http://www.answers.com/
http://dictionary.reference.com/

You mean dictionaries like these?

Also, Merriam Webster lists /'li-tr&-lE/ as a variant pronunciation of "literally". Count the syllables.

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
It's fairly well acknowledged that anyone with a "local" dialect, or even an "accent" in most cases (and yes, that includes yank accents) can't speak their own language properly.

Says who? Care to show me? Or is this just you talking?

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
I know a Brazilian who writes english better than most english people can, but that doesn't change anything.

That's also irrelevant.
 
And this is why I don't believe you when you say no one says "lit'rally".

I said no one says "lichrully" which is what you were talking about.


You mean dictionaries like these?

We were discussing within Britain or england, can't remember which. Those are all just yank propaganda. Trying to make the world spell and pronounce everything wrong, tsk tsk.

Also, Merriam Webster lists /'li-tr&-lE/ as a variant pronunciation of "literally". Count the syllables.

Uh huh....where does it mention "lichrully"?



Anyway back to that other question, how do you pronounce "buoy"? What about "aluminium"?
 
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Fraggle, a little help knocking some sense into this guy (or into me if I'm wrong after all), please? :(

What's the language called again? Is it called "anyoneglish"?

This is irrelevant too. Like Wikipedia said, there is no one clear official standard for the English language. You're just repeating the same old false statements and pretending that they logically refute my arguments. Come up with authoritative statements, like I did, and I will start considering your position.

I said no one says "lichrully" which is what you were talking about.

No, you said that no one reduces "literally" to three syllables, which I was able to prove false.

Also, that is "lichrully".

The T shown in that pronunciation is what linguists call a broad transcription of the pronunciation of the corresponding sound in the word. A "t" sound is perceived by many people, and for all intents and purposes it's only necessary to write the sound as T, but the real sound is much more like "ch", just like in "train". Say "train" slowly and notice you're really saying "chrain". Try to say "train" with a real "t" sound, and it would sound weird. Virtually all words with a "tr" sound that I can think of actually have "chr" sounds. This is why I expressed the pronunciation of the word as such.

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
We were discussing within Britain or england, can't remember which.

I wasn't. And even if we really were talking within Britain, I have provided you dictionaries which have been written in the US and/or recognize spellings and pronunciations different from the American standard as variants which are listed after the American standard. I assume dictionaries written in Australia, Canada, South Africa, India, the UK, etc., do something similar.

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
Those are all just yank propaganda. Trying to make the world spell and pronounce everything wrong, tsk tsk.

You said "the people who write the dictionaries". The US has people writing dictionaries just like the UK has.

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
Uh huh....where does it mention "lichrully"?

You just read it. And the "ch" is represented as a T for reasons I stated earlier in this post.

G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
Anyway back to that other question, how do you pronounce "buoy"? What about "aluminium"?

Guess what: You're getting into territory where you could actually make a reasonable argument. The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry recognizes both spellings of "aluminium", but prefers the spelling with the extra I. It must be kept in mind that the IUPAC is not a linguistic authority, only a scientific one, but at least an argument that "aluminium" is more correct than "aluminum" would actually be somewhat reasonable.

I should note that Firefox's automatic inline spell check recognizes "aluminum" as spelled correctly, but not "aluminium".

I wonder what you think of what one could call a triumph for Americans: the spelling of "sulfur", an American variant, being accepted by the IUPAC as the official spelling. The Royal Society of Chemistry, a UK-based authority, has also accepted "sulfur" as the official variant. :D
 
Fraggle, a little help knocking some sense into this guy (or into me if I'm wrong after all), please? :(

Calling for daddy?

This is irrelevant too. Like Wikipedia said, there is no one clear official standard for the English language. You're just repeating the same old false statements and pretending that they logically refute my arguments. Come up with authoritative statements, like I did, and I will start considering your position.

No, the language is called english. Like I said, at least a page ago, if you want a language where you get to decide the rules, start your own. I am not english and yet I would readily admit that my actually "pronouncing" r's is anything but "official".

No, you said that no one reduces "literally" to three syllables, which I was able to prove false.

I said "I don't see how skipping the t shortens the syllables in the word....still 4" which is true. "li'erally" said slowly comes to 4 syllables. It could be heard as 3 I suppose, not all the time by any means though, definitely in the minority of times. I have still yet to hear "lichrully" though, more like "litrally" if anything.

Also, that is "lichrully".

The T shown in that pronunciation is what linguists call a broad transcription of the pronunciation of the corresponding sound in the word. A "t" sound is perceived by many people, and for all intents and purposes it's only necessary to write the sound as T, but the real sound is much more like "ch", just like in "train". Say "train" slowly and notice you're really saying "chrain". Try to say "train" with a real "t" sound, and it would sound weird. Virtually all words with a "tr" sound that I can think of actually have "chr" sounds. This is why I expressed the pronunciation of the word as such.

Are you seriously trying to tell me you pronounce "train" as "chrain"? I say train slowly as....train. Tr-ain. Tr-ain....yup, there it is again. Train, not chrain. Of course, you're american (or think you are), so you're bound to pronounce it wrong. There, there, don't cry.



I wasn't. And even if we really were talking within Britain, I have provided you dictionaries which have been written in the US and/or recognize spellings and pronunciations different from the American standard as variants which are listed after the American standard. I assume dictionaries written in Australia, Canada, South Africa, India, the UK, etc., do something similar.

Yes, but those are not variants, those (if they have UK or english written after them) are the correct way. As far as I remember everyone else in the "empire" spells things the way we spell them because they know who's right. Most things are spelled correctly by everyone except americans. The canadians get a few things wrong, but at least they acknowledge the queen as their head of state, so that's one thing....and they spell "colour" etc. right so they're not all bad.



You said "the people who write the dictionaries". The US has people writing dictionaries just like the UK has.

Those aren't real dictionaries though. Like I said, propaganda. They're just the legacy of a bitter little man who couldn't spell called....Noah Webster I believe it was? Just like your penises are mutilated at birth without your consent because of a man called Harvey Kellogg, because you don't wash and you keep touching yourself.


Guess what: You're getting into territory where you could actually make a reasonable argument. The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry recognizes both spellings of "aluminium", but prefers the spelling with the extra I.

It is not an extra I. It is supposed to be there.

It must be kept in mind that the IUPAC is not a linguistic authority, only a scientific one, but at least an argument that "aluminium" is more correct than "aluminum" would actually be somewhat reasonable.

Wow....you mean THE REST OF THE ENGLISH SPEAKING WORLD is actually right? Didn't think about that one.

I should note that Firefox's automatic inline spell check recognizes "aluminum" as spelled correctly, but not "aluminium".

Then obviously it was written by people who can't spell.

What about "buoy"? How do you pronounce that? Must I ask everything three times?

If you're not american, you certainly think you are.
 
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Schleebenhorst- Here on the West Coast it's called boo-ey or bwee. I don't know about the East Coast or elsewhere, although I've heard it as "boo-ey" in several songs. As far as the word "literally" goes, for seven years I worked next door to a guy from Manchester (England) who pronounced it "lichrully" the same way we pronounce "naturally" as "nachrully". He also pronounced radio, video, and Indian as RAYjo, VIjo, and INjun.
 
I just heard something funny. It was a documentary about volcanoes, and the British guy who was talking was concerned about an increase in geyser activity in Yellowstone National Park. Now, here in the US, that word is pronounced GUY-zer. This fellow pronounced it GEE-zer. Ah, in the US, a "geezer" is a cranky old man.
In the U.K. it must either mean something different or else have no slang meaning at all, since Black Sabbath's bassist Geezer Butler bore that handle on their debut album when he was in his 20s.
Or are you talking about the Received Pronunciation, a variety of English that's only spoken by five percent of British people?
We use the term "Oxford English" over here. I don't know if it's used in the U.K. It's the upper-crust fuddy-duddy language we hear on "Upstairs Downstairs" and all those high-culture BBC shows. The term has probably been reinforced by the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) being considered the reference standard for vocabulary just about everywhere. But not spelling or pronunciation of course. They're very good about picking up American and other "foreign" slang. If that's what you mean by "Received" it probably is a minority of the populace and perhaps specifically only those with Oxford degrees. :) We have a similar phenomenon here. Women who go to "finishing schools" in the Northeast learn a faux-British pronunciation that is distinguished only by its lack of agreement with any natural dialect.
In the "UK" a "geezer" is slang for a man. As in "That geezer's 'avin a larf."
There ya go, Oxy.
Do you all still pronounce "buoy" as "boo-ey"?
You rarely hear the word on this side except as a verb, as in, "He's really buoyed up, by the kind words from his boss," and in that sense it's always pronounced like "boy."
Fraggle, a little help knocking some sense into this guy (or into me if I'm wrong after all), please?
I'm not here to settle disputes as long as everyone is civil. This is a dispute that will never be settled. The old adage, "America and England are two countries divided by a common language," is the truth.
This is irrelevant too. Like Wikipedia said, there is no one clear official standard for the English language.
You're right about that... but only in America. Surely you know enough about England to understand that over there something can be universally acknowleded as a standard without any officiating body to decree it as such. For example, "common law" really works. We don't recognize the authority of many generations of Englishmen to tell us what's right and wrong. Especially if, as in the case of linguistic usage, you're only talking about a handful of generations, and in some cases our phonetics are closer to Shakespeare's than theirs.
Come up with authoritative statements, like I did, and I will start considering your position.
Schleeb is citing authority, by the rules of England. Those rules are so highly respected that they are even observed in Scotland! We don't respect the same authorities in the two countries so, as I said, this dispute is not resolvable.
And even if we really were talking within Britain, I have provided you dictionaries which have been written in the US and/or recognize spellings and pronunciations different from the American standard as variants which are listed after the American standard. I assume dictionaries written in Australia, Canada, South Africa, India, the UK, etc., do something similar.
I wouldn't bet money on that. The rest of the anglophone world is rather like Scotland. We're the disrespectful mavericks. We're the only ones who couldn't wait for independence to happen gradually and had to shed blood over it.
You just read it. And the "ch" is represented as a T for reasons I stated earlier in this post.
I haven't heard that pronunciation, but there are other words in which the rate of palatalization is faster in the U.K. than over here. After all, the reason that "injun" is a slang word for American Indians is that "India" was pronounced "Inja" by many of the early colonists. I've heard the pronunciation "Canajun" used in jest, I wonder if it's taken from actual dialect? After all, someone named the Acadians in Louisiana "Cajuns" and no contemporary American would do that.
The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry recognizes both spellings of "aluminium", but prefers the spelling with the extra I. It must be kept in mind that the IUPAC is not a linguistic authority, only a scientific one, but at least an argument that "aluminium" is more correct than "aluminum" would actually be somewhat reasonable.
It's not just spelling. The Brits pronounce it al-you-MIN-yum. We say a-LOO-mi-num. Actually, since we palatalize all of our dentals before an unaccented U (have we come full circle, back to "ejoocate"?), if we spelled it the way they do we would pronounce it similarly except for not condensing the final two vowels into a diphthong. We would say al-yuh-MIN-ee-um.
I should note that Firefox's automatic inline spell check recognizes "aluminum" as spelled correctly, but not "aluminium".
That's a really poor word to ignore British spelling, since it reflects an actual phonetic difference.
Try to say "train" with a real "t" sound, and it would sound weird. Virtually all words with a "tr" sound that I can think of actually have "chr" sounds. This is why I expressed the pronunciation of the word as such.
You sound like a native speaker of Mandarin. I don't know where you hear the sound pronounced that way. Notice how you hold your tongue for the T. It's the same way you hold it to say "take." It is quite different from the shape and placement for "chain." Mandarin has exaggerated fricatives/affricates so they can have two parallel sets: X J Q and SH ZH CH. The first series is palatalized to the degree of the Slavic languages, and the second is pronounced very close to the sound you are describing for TR. We usually teach it by telling people to try to say CHR. In fact, the paradigm is broken since there is no voiceless fricative but the Pin Yin romanization system spells the voiced fricative as R.
Are you seriously trying to tell me you pronounce "train" as "chrain"?
I don't believe any sizeable community of native speakers says it that way and it's certainly not network-TV-announcer-standard American. Everyone should listen to a native speaker of standard Mandarin (not a dialect like Sichuan) say CH and you'll hear the sound in question. I don't believe it occurs in any major dialect of American English.
Those aren't real dictionaries though. Like I said, propaganda. They're just the legacy of a bitter little man who couldn't spell called....Noah Webster I believe it was? Just like your penises are mutilated at birth without your consent because of a man called Harvey Kellogg, because you don't wash and you keep touching yourself.
Come on, you guys. This is not Free Thoughts or Politics. Please keep the discourse civil here. I want people who stumble into this forum from a Google hit to consider signing up and not run screaming away from a flame war. You as the proper Brit who considers yourself superior should be ashamed of yourself for being the first to hit below the belt.
How do you pronounce "buoyancy"?
Same way, as if the U weren't there.
 
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