Evidence of telepathy among autistic savants

Magical Realist

Valued Senior Member
Amazing studies conducted by Dr. Diane Powell of telepathy as performed by autistic savants. The assumption going in was that these savants were actually solving complex math problems quickly in their heads. But experiments showed that one girl was actually reading the answer in the mind of the tester. Further experiments proved repeatedly that she was doing exactly that. In one case where over ten minutes she was given 162 randomly generated numbers she only made 4 mistakes! See video below for details.


Here is her website:

 
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Take-home message: A new podcast called The Telepathy Tapes claims that some nonverbal autistic children are actually telepaths who can read minds, speak to each other, and acquire knowledge ahead of what the rest of humanity knows
- Video evidence shows that, in the tests conducted of their mind-reading abilities, the results can easily be explained by the mother knowing what the answer is and either consciously or subconsciously cueing her child

That's quite a claim. Was there ever any evidence proving that? And how would somebody "subconsciously cue" a mathethematical number to an autistic child? Sounds almost like telepathy! lol
 
Amazing studies conducted by Dr. Diane Powell of telepathy as performed by autistic savants. The assumption going in was that these savants were actually solving complex math problems quickly in their heads. But experiments showed that one girl was actually reading the answer in the mind of the tester. Further experiments proved repeatedly that she was doing exactly that. In one case where over ten minutes she was given 162 randomly generated numbers she only made 4 mistakes! See video below for details.


Here is her website:

My ex worked with these people. They do not have superpowers they have the opposite, something no one and no parents would ever choose for their kid or themselves.

Imagine not being able to hug your child? Ask them if they were ok? It is a very basic human need, protect, understand and advance your kids, emulating your parents or doing a better job.

Autism is not "the rain man," it is exhausted, desperate parents and disassociated kids who will never be able to do what we can do.
 
Dr. Powell's powerful debunk to the McGill University's Jonathan Jarry's critique of her telepathy experiments:


This mostly deals with the ad hom aspect of who she is and her credibility. Let's set that aside and deal with the actual procedure.

"...the potential for subtle cueing. Being touched would be considered a red flag from the standpoint of skeptics. However, when many children are first learning RPM, they do best while being touched by a parent. At the time of testing, Elisa had been using the RPM boards for such a short period of time that she required far more assistance from her mother to communicate than desirable. Anxiety also played a role in creating more need for tactile support. That is particularly the case in initial experiments being filmed on camera. To avoid the issues caused by RPM, I have primarily tested under controlled conditions autistic children who are able to speak and/or type independently [Powell, 2015, 2016]. However, the documentary filmmaker following my research wanted to start by filming experiments that were being set up for the first time and all of my untested children were using RPM."



So rather than than debunking their criticism of her flawed technique, she just makes excuses for it why it was inadequate.

That means McGill's debunking is still valid.
 
Until there is actual evidence of cuing going on in her experiments, then her results stand unrefuted. As Hitchen's razor states: "What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
 
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Until there is actual evidence of cuing going on in her experiments, then her results stand unrefuted.
This is false.
A faulty experiment is an invalid experiment. The results are thrown out.

As Hitchen's razor states: "What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
No one is asserting anything except her. She is making a claim. The claim is not supported by her experiment. Her procedure has not taken into account unconscious cues. (We know unconscious cures affect experiments; they must be accounted for in a valid experiment.)

Therefore, her experiment does not make her case.
 
If there was cuing going on, there'd be evidence of it. The realtime videos show no such cuing going on. So there's no basis for thinking it was.
 
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If there was cuing going on, there'd be evidence of it.
It doesn't matter if there is or isn't - and it doesn't matter if we can see any evidence or if we can't.

The realtime videos show no such cuing going on.
It doesn't matter.

So there's no basis for thinking it was.
Again, it doesn't matter whether there is or isn't. What matters is that her method is flawed.

She is drawing a conclusion that not supported by the method of her experiment.

"I conclude the subject is communicating via telepathy."
"How does your technique eliminate potential corruption by unconscious communication? The Clever Hans scenario?"
"It doesn't."
"Then your conclusion is unsupported."
It's that simple.



The Null Hypothesis states (paraphased) that an experiment starts with the premise that: theres' no there there until there's a there there.

In other words:
1. For the purpose of building an experiment, she starts with the assumption that her hypothesis is false.
2. It is her job to remove all ways the hypothesis it could be false from the experiment.
3. Only if she can remove all ways it could be false (including any her colleagues find), can she conclude her hypothsis is valid.
4. If she cannot remove even one way it could be false, then her conclusion cannot be drawn from her experiment.

Emphasis on the "could". It doesn't have to happen; it just has to be a potential.

Also note the emphasis on her responsibilities to make her case; not on anyone else's to refute.


(There's a reason why blind and double-blind testing is the gold standard in medical experiments such as drug efficacy trials. People do communicate their knowledge unintentionally. This is fact.)
 
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Welcome back, Magical Realist. I see you're straight back on the woo bandwagon. Have you spent a lot of your time away from the forum watching more youtube rubbish and gathering links?
But experiments showed that one girl was actually reading the answer in the mind of the tester. Further experiments proved repeatedly that she was doing exactly that.
Clearly, these experiments proved no such thing. Please learn what it means to prove something.

These experiments don't even provide good evidence for the claim that the girl was telepathic, let alone prove it.

If there was cuing going on, there'd be evidence of it.
At the time, certainly. Now? Maybe not. Relevant evidence from past events is often no longer available to present-day researchers.
The realtime videos show no such cuing going on.
How do you know?
So there's no basis for thinking it was.
Why did the McGill university article criticise the study on exactly that basis, then?
 
Welcome back, Magical Realist. I see you're straight back on the woo bandwagon. Have you spent a lot of your time away from the forum watching more youtube rubbish and gathering links?

I spend lots of time becoming very informed on the latest events around the globe involving uaps and the paranormal. Most involve online news stories, facebook reels, historical websites, paranormal TV documentaries, and youtube videos. How else would I ever be taken seriously about it here? ;)

As far as bandwagons go, how's the view from your's? It basically takes 5 or 6 posters in this forum to even come close to debunking the evidence I post here. That doesn't speak very well of the competence of the Sci Forums groupthink and their critical thinking crusade now does it?

If there was cuing going on, there'd be evidence of it.
At the time, certainly. Now? Maybe not. Relevant evidence from past events is often no longer available to present-day researchers.
Powell details her attempts to eliminate RPM boards and using multiple camera angles and eyewitnesses. But she admits more could be done to eliminate the possibility of cuing:

"Speaking further within the context of tests conducted with a 13-year-old autistic girl known as “Elisa,” D.H.P. goes on to add that with touch-based facilitative communication there also is

...the potential for subtle cueing. Being touched would be considered a red flag from the standpoint of skeptics. However, when many children are first learning RPM, they do best while being touched by a parent. At the time of testing, Elisa had been using the RPM boards for such a short period of time that she required far more assistance from her mother to communicate than desirable. Anxiety also played a role in creating more need for tactile support. That is particularly the case in initial experiments being filmed on camera. To avoid the issues caused by RPM, I have primarily tested under controlled conditions autistic children who are able to speak and/or type independently [Powell, 2015, 2016]. However, the documentary filmmaker following my research wanted to start by filming experiments that were being set up for the first time and all of my untested children were using RPM. (pp. 279 – 280)

In light of this, D.H.P. went on to state:

After our experiments the entire sound and camera crew walked away with the same impression [that the children were exhibiting telepathy]. No one visually detected an obvious pattern that could be considering cueing. All told, there were at least ten witnesses, some of whom were filming from multiple camera angles. Nonetheless, the conditions were clearly not optimal for proving telepathy and we cannot definitively say that there was no cueing without more tests and a detailed analysis. (p. 280) "---- https://thetelepathytapes.com/dr-powell-defense
 
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Magical Realist:
I spend lots of time becoming very informed on the latest events around the globe involving uaps and the paranormal.
No you don't. You spend lots of your time drinking the kool aid from the people on one side of the woo fence, while actively avoiding becoming informed about reliable methods of inquiry into such things.

Most involve online news stories, facebook reels, historical websites, paranormal TV documentaries, and youtube videos. How else would I ever be taken seriously about it here? ;)
I think it is far more likely that your viewing is mostly restricted to what you get on your youtube feed. The algorithm must surely know the sort of crap you love to watch very well by now, so you probably don't get to see anything that is skeptical of the woo. You only see the nonsense from the believers, the fraudsters, the naive and the incompetent.

You're not taken seriously around here, by the way. You're widely considered to be the forum's number 1 clown.

As far as bandwagons go, how's the view from your's?

The science bandwagon, you mean? Or the rational thinking bandwagon? Or the common sense bandwagon? Those bandwagons are all doing very well, thanks for asking.

It's so easy to point out your obvious errors, your lies and your shoddy "investigation" methods that even a few amateurs on this forum can easily do it without digging deeply into any of the "cases" you present. Moreover, the stuff you bring is of such poor quality that most of it is literally worthless as evidence of the woo you're so desperately trying to proselytise for.

It basically takes 5 or 6 posters in this forum to even come close to debunking the evidence I post here.
Hardly. It's a bit of fun for a few of us to have a laugh at your latest inanities, but it requires minimal effort on our part. Since you put zero effort into thinking critically about what you bring here, the simplest common-sense question-asking is often sufficient to debunk your crap.

The most interesting discussions about UFOs that we have here never involve you, because you have nothing useful to contribute on the topic. For instance, you have contributed literally nothing towards the analysis of the Pentagon videos ("Go fast", "tic tac" etc.). Either you're simply not capable enough to think such things through rationally, or else (more likely) you're so emotionally glued on to the idea of the woo being real that you're hopelessly biased and you can't bring yourself to devote a brain cell to any analysis that might possibly lead to the woo being "debunked".

That doesn't speak very well of the competence of the Sci Forums groupthink and their critical thinking crusade now does it?
What looks like groupthink to you is just a bunch of sensible, educated people independently reaching the only sensible conclusions it is possible to reach, given the data in question.

This place must be rather different to what goes on in any woo forums you might be a member of. Of course, those places don't need to do groupthink, do they, because the woo is real. Right?

Powell details her attempts to eliminate RPM boards and using multiple camera angles and eyewitnesses. But she admits more could be done to eliminate the possibility of cuing:

"Speaking further within the context of tests conducted with a 13-year-old autistic girl known as “Elisa,” D.H.P. goes on to add that with touch-based facilitative communication there also is

...the potential for subtle cueing. Being touched would be considered a red flag from the standpoint of skeptics. However, when many children are first learning RPM, they do best while being touched by a parent. At the time of testing, Elisa had been using the RPM boards for such a short period of time that she required far more assistance from her mother to communicate than desirable. Anxiety also played a role in creating more need for tactile support. That is particularly the case in initial experiments being filmed on camera. To avoid the issues caused by RPM, I have primarily tested under controlled conditions autistic children who are able to speak and/or type independently [Powell, 2015, 2016]. However, the documentary filmmaker following my research wanted to start by filming experiments that were being set up for the first time and all of my untested children were using RPM. (pp. 279 – 280)

In light of this, D.H.P. went on to state:

After our experiments the entire sound and camera crew walked away with the same impression [that the children were exhibiting telepathy]. No one visually detected an obvious pattern that could be considering cueing. All told, there were at least ten witnesses, some of whom were filming from multiple camera angles. Nonetheless, the conditions were clearly not optimal for proving telepathy and we cannot definitively say that there was no cueing without more tests and a detailed analysis. (p. 280) "---- https://thetelepathytapes.com/dr-powell-defense
It sounds like you're agreeing with us, now.

Powell's experiments didn't eliminate the possibility of cueing, so it can't be ruled out that that is what was going on.

I take it you will now retract your previous claim that these experiments "prove" telepathy in "autistic savants"? Or is that not what you will do? Prefer to double down on another silly claim?
 
Here is her website
If you read down a ways, you find comments like this:

Due to time constraints, the testing protocol was not optimal, which makes it insufficient to declare definitively that they exhibit telepathy.
And

Proof that the phenomenon I’m witnessing is telepathy would require the elimination of any possibilities of subtle cueing.
This means being able to test the child and parent/clinician in separate rooms, or with a larger divider separating them.
Given the extreme sensitivity autistic children have to change and new people, this could not be done on my initial visit. However, using behavioral strategies, we can work towards the ideal protocol before filming the next set of experiments.

Sounds like "the ideal protocol," i.e. real science, remains in the future.

(I suspect that posts following the OP, which I have yet to read, are very likely to have pointed this out. I must be a little precognitive!)
 
(I suspect that posts following the OP, which I have yet to read, are very likely to have pointed this out. I must be a little precognitive!)
Yes. This often happens to me as well--I'll post something, then read the thread, only to find someone else said the same without my knowledge of it-- unless... It is truly an extraordinary phenomenon!

This matter reminds me a bit of some of Rupert Sheldrake's work. I always wished that guy had either opted to do his work within the defined parameters--it's not like he doesn't know how; he's certainly got the background--or to work in sub-optimal conditions (of necessity, given then nature of the subjects), while openly acknowledging as much. Some of the stuff he's done is very interesting, and certainly worthy of investigating, but why even bother if you're just gonna be cagey and deceptive about it?
 
No one visually detected an obvious pattern that could be considering cueing.
Of course they didn't. FC is a way to use your child as a Ouija board. Tactile effects are by definition not visually detectable, just like with the Ouija board. No one detected an "obvious pattern" - and the UNobvious patterns escaped their attention.
 
Yah, I thought it might be related to the facilitated communication racket, which has resulted in many parents over the decades being falsely accused of horrid crimes by the duplicitous practitioners.
_
And also some of the practitioners themselves actually committing some pretty heinous crimes, by taking advantage of their subjects in various ways. It's pretty unsettling.
 
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