Everyday sexism

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    If you get the urge to start up wit JamesR agan... i have a plan to get you back on track... which is... "Really go for" me insted... i mean why not... i agree wit everthang JamesR has said to you an about you... eh.!!!

    A-Man.!!!
     
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  3. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Nice try ,but you're no Eugene Goodman

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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    The irony is that you are complaining about abusive and bullying behaviour...

    Have you ever, just for once, stopped to consider that the whole 'aww luv' thing may be bullying to the young person on the receiving end who has no right to say no or stop?

    Oh, so now we're back to the whole 'old folks' thing, when before you said it had nothing to do with his being old..

    I mean, can you make up your mind and at the very least, stick to a consistent argument?

    His age has nothing to do with it. And no one said it was evil. Stop making things up to amp up your argument. Which leads me onto the next point that I am asking once again..

    Why do you persist in demanding that bad or unwelcome behaviour from someone who is old should just be accepted?

    My father was older than paddoboy is. Not once has he ever addressed someone he does not know in such a familiar or flirty way. He's the guy who would see his younger niece in her first job at the local supermarket and instead of walking up to her and calling her by a nickname he had called her from the day she was born, he addressed her by the name she had on her name tag and treated her professionally. Because that's her workplace. He would come to meet me at work so we could go to lunch.. He never addressed me by the nickname he called me since the day I was born. Because I am in my workplace.

    It's about respect.

    Something paddoboy clearly lacks.

    Then why, pray tell, do you condone it when paddoboy does it?

    Why do you enable him and his behaviour?

    See, I have not said anything that everyone else has not said in this thread.

    But you only accuse me of bullying him.

    Just as when I swore earlier and you had a go at me for swearing because you don't like that from me.

    Your issue is that I am challenging him for his behaviour. You don't seem to have an issue with the other guys do it. Just me. You don't have an issue with Wegs challenging his behaviour. Just me. Why? Is it because I'm not being ladylike?

    Paddoboy's behaviour, the manner in which he targets just women with the sleazy come on's falls under the banner of sexual harassment and sexism. His intent is beside the point. It's not appropriate behaviour. Worse still, the manner in which he wields his power as a customer or client means that the young women he deliberately targets cannot actually fight against it or say no.. And in its own way, this demand that women simply accept this because of his age, etc, just continues to feed a culture of misogyny and sexism. That women are expected to behave a certain way and put up with it and worse still, be expected to appreciate it.

    And some women do not appreciate it and may feel uncomfortable with it. It is because of this that men like paddoboy need to curb their behaviour accordingly.
     
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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    All advertising should be banned as I don't like it.
    Alex
     
  8. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah Eugene deserves a medal... best i ever got was a blue ribbon

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  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Not entirely ... I have been addressing what passes for friendly chat between old folk that is not used with any intent to be disrespectful.

    Anything that is disrespectful intentionally in another matter.

    And thinking about it...can we not extend some consideration for old age given the law recognises that a child under eight can not be guilty of a crime under the law?

    I can assure you that, as exchemist took time to point out, that is is common place and area dependant..and interestingly when he pointed it out it was not met with rejection as has been the case because I dare say it...this reflects the mob does not like me are are keen to bring me down a peg or two for no other reason than I irritate the mob.

    How can you say that when we find examples within the law pertaining, for one, to existing use..an objectionable quarry can remain operative if it can claim existing use rights...the quarry is objectionable but the law in effect says ..seeing you have been opperating for a long time we will be fair and let you continue.
    I wonder how you would respond if you were called upon not to use language you have used all your life without malice...

    Rubbish ...show me an objection fifty years ago that indicates what you claim.
    You simply declaring your opinion does not make it so. You folk who think if you say something it automatically becomes fact really need to get out more...reality is different to what you proclaim within your four walls..7 billion people..do you really think what you demand is at all relevant?

    To be honest my response is mainly triggered on the basis that folk hate Paddoboy, or so it seems, for no other reason than he is a bit over the top.
    Before I joined I thought I should give this guy a run for his money but realised such a response was very childish and not to let his style stand in the way of enjoying his regular scientific cut and pastes which he was criticised.. but those critising never posted anything..it became clear who the lossers were..

    However the point everyone conveniently excludes from their constructed reality is...none of you were there, none of you have witness testimony, none of you are prepared to apply rules of evidence but are prepared to in effect participate in what very much appears like a lynching..so on this aspect tell me..do you have any evidence from those folk you claim were offended by Paddo supporting any claim that they were offended..well of course you don't and that is why you have absolutely no right to declare you know that these folk were offended..that is the point.. they may well have been but you simply can not say..in my reality they were offended..you just do not know.

    And the thing is I say this over and over and over and no one stops for one second to reflect that I may just have something and join me to curb the senseless mob behaviour...

    Well I am not what you invent...and until you can provide evidence to support your made up reality I will ignore your assertion.

    Yes I want to blame the church and my evidence that they deserve blame can be found in the various quotes from church leaders I gathered to support my claim...now one could say..the reason Paddo is this way is because he was raised a catholic and clearly they radiate a total disrespect for women...in fact let's us ask just how folks behaviour would be guided as to respect for women given just the quotes I provided above.

    Why are you prepared to overlook what can only be considered outrageous material and not be offended and yet someone calling someone love without malice and in ignorance perhaps of how that could be received gets you worked up...do you have an inability to see the evil in one and not the other..so yes I blame the church for one and can only wonder why any decent thinking human can not see the reality that I see...I support my reality with quotes above yours is built from whatever pops into your head driven by a dislike for the individual it seems..if you want to argue further I will offer evidence to support my claim..which I think is coming as there is something here about boasting manhood which may establish my case.

    [
     
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed that must be the case so I ask how is it you can assess the situation and attribute such guilt say exclusively to Paddoboy? How is it you can make judgements without being there or knowing the people at the places under discussion and yet pass judgement...you don't like Paddo and it would seem you don't like me, we are too brash for you, clearly that is what gets under your skin, and so we are guilty of anything you care to accuse us of...tell me what has our social style got to do with evidence being or not being required. Aussies , some only, can be brash, loud and even obnoxious in the mind of others but that does not mean we have malice in our hearts..which should be a consideration..and to say for example Paddo can't read folk is a wild unsupported claim..you don't know is the fact you leave out of your invented reality.

    This is the real problem isn't it..you don't like the way we talk, the way we conduct ourselves is too brash for refined folk like you...I tell my stories and all you can think is I am boasting...think about that..do you think I am boasting when I say I am building an observatory or lately building a pad..is that too much for you? Do you feel it should not be said or are you jealous...and let's be specific what areas where I boast about my manhood do you find objectionable, and why do you think telling a story is boasting...but I have known this..I feel it...so I have raced moto cross, sailed, played pool..heck the list is too long so I will get back to ask you to show the boasts about my manhood you find objectionable ...I don't recall much other than generally complaining about being near cripple..but I guess that aspect does not make it to your reality.. why would you have a problem anyways with me if you don't have a problem with the outrageous way males are presented in Hollywood movies..it would seem that I am rather tame in comparison.

    You could see it that he is answering the charges but I guess he is just supposed to roll over whilst the boot is laid in..yes most unreasonable of him...now I know what he gets up to but you can't bring baggage to court can you..the issue was simple and does not require claims that years ago he did this or that...heck if you look at all his behaviour that is an entirely different matter..but his past behaviour is not at all relevant nor are his various boasting of manhood whatever...the issue was firstly jokes then calling folk luv.
    The fact it grew suggests there is much much more than pointing out something to Paddo.
    You would be rather thicknif you could not figure that out.

    Yes but focus on the word common..like it or not it is very common in certain groups to use luv etc on what many of us would consider an inappropriate application, it varies greatly depending on area and social strata and just because those who declare they being elite know best and all must follow their norms is simply wrong and it surprises me the general arrogance of this class and are unable to see their judgemental approach is much more evil than any friendly exchanges of pleasantries they disapprove of...

    Now clearly the fact you gloss over the roll of the church to go for Paddo and your comment re boasting re manhood sums up the issue..it is not about calling folk luv it is no more than an exercise to lay the boot in seizing a popular issue with which to hide the obvious motive of the exercise.

    DMOE.
    Thank you for your post but please don't let your dislike of someone else's style cause you to abandon giving them a fair trial. And thank you for using my name..I would have certainly felt uncomfortable if you called me luv.

    All the best to you and I hope you will avoid the virus.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  11. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    It seems that, for whatever reason, you cannot understand what I am saying!

    To Repeat :
    Alex, I do not know you...nor do I know paddoboy, nor Bells, nor James R.

    Alex, I do not like or dislike you...nor do I like or dislike paddoboy, nor Bells, nor James R.

    Alex, it is not about liking or disliking you, paddoboy, Bells, James R. or any other Member of this Forum...

    Alex, It has nothing to to with who I like or dislike...I cannot Like or Dislike anyone that I do not know, Period!!!

    It is simply about behaving as an Adult and exhibiting common decency and respect toward everyone else regardless of Gender or any other characteristic!

     
  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, yes indeed and dont think I dont see it..no excuses you got me.

    But I have been used to being the boss in the office and that molds you..my last marriage went West because I was overbearing...not nasty just over the top...I know it is a problem Bells I now say nothing to offer opinion when with my ex who I think the world of..so as not to appear in control ..I so often "bite my tounge" and not offer advice so as not to be interfering or controlling..so I am aware of my problem and don't dismiss it and work hard to have others not frightened or intimidated by my style...here not so much but one could see why...

    Yes of course I have and I don't deny that and I am sure the record will show I have never rebutted such.

    However the fact is I have never asked young folk how they regard being called luv...my guess is they would probably group it with a general list of things they find annoying about old people...but really I just don't know what they think..do you? Have you asked how they regard the matter?
    Maybe there is something on face book where some young person says "I hate how folk bully me by calling me luv"...I just don't know.

    I know you say that to discredit me ..But there you go..being old I am a bit all over the place..believe me you lose something whether that requires compassion I don't know...do you jump on old folk because they can't get their head around email?..perhaps one could recognise that not growing up with a computer could make things difficult for some.


    I don't want to pass a judgement but I will say this...it is old folk who use such familiar chat and I believe they are not malicious...given what they say is a habit I think one must take that into account...is age a consideration..it seems it could be given the law treats a child under 8 as incapable of a crime..men's rea.. maybe some old folk can't form the required mental competency to be found guilty of the crime of bullying via calling someone luv.

    I will stop reading things into things if that helps. I don't want to employ trickery in my arguement it is something too common around here..so thanks...

    Because I feel that is a reasonable non totalitarian approach...What I think you need to establish is do your victims see it your way ... I don't know..I have not heard much about in truth..I only have the inputs here, yours and Weggs really..the blokes have a view but what do they know of how a woman sees things...I don't know if what you claim is the way it is because I have not discussed it with young girls...for mine I try and respect folk , I try not to be too talkative as that can irritate young folk...I do my best on the little I know.

    Well that is wonderful and my father also respected others...we are both fortunate to have had decent instruction and example when young and indeed thru all our life..do not underestimate the advantage we enjoy in that respect...others are not as fortunate...we were shown by instruction and example the decent way to live life...not everyone has that ... and I try and take that into account in my dealing with others and particularly avoid judging others...and I bet your father did not judge others.

    The are so many changes I would like to see in the world and I guess they mostly come down to respect..respect for others irrespective of their back ground, race, sex, social position, social style ...and respect for animals...I won't kill anything, fly, nozzles .. mice I really have to kill... which I hate myself for but they do damage I can not afford..like chewing out the fuel lines in and wiring in the car...I try not to step on my ants.. I find ants on the sink I let them be..I respect all life, all people...I respect the planet etc etc etc....all this comes from having a decent father and mother...but there are folk who are not as lucky..I won't tell them they should not step on ants or they must do this or that as that would be totally out of touch with the way my father and mother approached life..being bossy ..I had to be but I was always gentle and people followed me thru respect rather than fear.

    You are a wonderful person as you follow in your parents foot steps and you stand up for decency..I am just a little further down the road having taken on board a recognition that each person is different and I hold a belief that no one has a right to judge another.

    But I certainly would hang folk who kill their partner and I make no apology for such barbarism.
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I think about it..I often suggested to him not to be so confrontational and in this thread I felt that he was actually going my way, he was trying to be calm and yet no one saw that and were less than polite.

    He was afforded no respect.

    Also you, all of you, would tell him that you knew how the folk he dealt with felt..that was just not right..you can't do that..you cannot pass judgement without testimony from all concerned...you pointed it out he said well I don't think I caused a problem..he could be right or wrong but it is not up to anyone to say..you dont understand I know how they felt... that walks all over respect for another person...the only thing that entitles greater input would be testomony from the ,say, ladies in the bank where in they say all the things you say they would be thinking..you dont know and you at this point make a judgement based on what you believe could be the case...to approach the matter that way is wrong...that is my point..the horrible thing that comes up now is this aspect of dislike for his and my boasting..what has that got to do with anything..do we all have to act a certain way? I am me not perfect but I resent being judged by another ..what gives them any right?
     
  14. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    9,254
    The irony here is that paddoboy's flirtatious and bordering harassing behavior of women at his local shops, isn't mentioned in James' OP. James brought up a sexist joke that paddoboy posted elsewhere on the forum. We could all laugh it off, but I think the point of this thread is to show that everyday sexism isn't always blatant, and often comes across as 'innocent' flirtations and jokes. At women's expense. And if we don't laugh it off, we're thought of as bitches...or stirring a pot...or too sensitive. I have been treated kindly by paddoboy one on one here, but I think he doesn't see the depth of his ''everyday banter,'' and how his refusal to examine it may look to outsiders on a forum.
     
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  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Well I appologise.
    I am sorry for that I should not tell you what you should say or rather how you wish to express yourself. My problem with swearing or getting emotional has only to do with my belief that it errodes ones position... and to save yourself the trouble I know I have not practiced what I preached.
    It's because I like arguing with you ..I like your competence and I guess enjoy your commitment...I respect you more than most I guess.
    If you will take into account my minor objections I can agree in principle...
    Well again let me agree subject to the things I find problems with....
    I hope your ear is getting better...
    Alex
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Can you understand that my response was very much guided by your boasting of manliness thing..that suggests a certain dislike or am I just being sensative?

    Anyways out of my respect for you and my appreciation for you contributing in a meaningful way to this thread I will take you at your word.

    All I can ask of you is that you consider the aspects I raise as to judging others, evidence, the roll of the church and Hollywood, and the danger of totalitarianism in dealing with morality.

    Again thanks I am so happy you got involved.

    Alex
     
  17. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I think the term "microaggression" is unfortunate due, in large part, to the "micro-" prefix somewhat undermining the concept. Really, small, "everyday" transgressions, such as addressing total strangers as "love" and the like, can be far more insidious and damaging precisely because of their seeming minor, insignificant and everyday nature. Without consideration, a lot of people are apt to be wholly dismissive of their ability to condescend, undermine and even threaten and unnerve people.

    With the more overt and direct forms of disrespect, most (hopefully) are apt to recognize and acknowledge the wrongness of such; with things like addressing a total stranger as "love," that, in the appropriate context, is a term of endearment and, outside said context, largely lacks negative connotations, a lot of people are apt, as you say, to "laugh it off" and dismiss it's objectionable nature entirely.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  18. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. I've made reference to this in post #361.
     
  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I should not have said that but I feel I have to restrict him to a reasonable approach..I sense that, as it does with most of us, it becomes a matter of winning and then valid points are not taken on board.

    And I really can't and won't blame people for what they think of me as finally I must take responsibility for the impressions I create knowing that everything I say will be filtered by each person based on their experience...so I come over as a blow hard and that is understandable and as blow hards are not linked with kindness and respect those qualities in me will be filtered out....such that I become that person's stereo type blow hard...thats what human can do...well been out doing more work, such is my manliness.... but the humidity is terrible ..I am absolutely wet..even if I had guitar strings I could not play being so wet.

    In any event it is wonderful that you would throw yourself in front of James to take the bullet your bravery deserve my mercy you are a good man.
    Alex
     
  20. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    I do not boast of my "manliness thing"...whatever that means...
    What I said was :
    You do remember Posting :
    "I never lost a case or a fist fight so my belief is I could change your belief and I really wont think of doing that.

    or : "My abilkties always saw me wining whatever race orcomletition that I went in.. I won every artcompetition I ever entered won every fist fight won every arm wrestle I win most pool comps. Mkto cross was the only thing I didnot always win.
    In law I never lost a case.. Never.. Who do you know who can say that.. Inreal estate I was the best salesman.. And always had the best looking girls.. I was and am blessed.
    So I have strived to be humble and not overpower the vroup I am in but it happens..
    Make up what you want about me but I have only ever tried to help you.... Thats what I do a d have always done. I often think that my life is so good because I only think of otbers."

    or : "I am proud be able to talk about my problems but I reject any claim I wish to be accepted in a clan... I dont do clans, gang groups or committees obviously because its all about me, why would I seek to be one of the croud."

    There seems to be some incongruity between the two last Quotes in whether or not it is all about you or you only thinking of others.

    Nevertheless, a few examples of the Boasting and Bragging of your superiority in multiple areas of "manhood" in your Postings on this Forum!

    There was no "certain dislike"of you, Alex...I was merely referring to statements that you had made in your Postings on this Site.
     
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    God created whiskey to make the Irish humble
    and
    She almost succeeded
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    How can you call any of that bragging it's all just casual facts that I was humbly listing.

    Anyways I can see why you could consider that to be bragging and why that could cause you to dislike me which you say is not the case and that makes me very happy.

    Heck there is so much I left out ...maybe I better add to that list in case you start to think I am just being too humble.

    I only won three moto cross races and they were only club days...Anyways my point somewhat hard to notice is I have had many good times and I don't feel any need to impress anyone.

    But I must say when I read all that I do come over as a dick head that's for sure...not that I care.
    Alex
     
  23. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Again, Alex, it seems to me that you continue to be dis•in•gen•u•ous.
     

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