evaluation by priors

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by iceaura, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Not if you are replying to me. I meant the poster each post.

    If you are referring to the pattern that required me to start this thread, then we have an new topic, suitable for a new thread.

    Is the odd pattern of lockdown an example of evaluation by priors, rather than content?
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  3. Gustav Banned Banned


    i presume you refer to the the 3 threads locked by james. lets look at the reasons given......

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    from my pov, the claim that complaints were generated by two of the threads are unverifiable. as such i have to take it at face value. moderation has been asserted to take place usually when reports are filed so that lends some support to the claim.

    i rarely agree with offtopic allegations, but it is a fairly easy one to make.

    it does seem a bit too pat ("odd" as put by you) but that is just a feeling which is not good enough for a complaint. i could of course eyeball the threads in question but they are massive and will take to much time. plus i really dont give too much of a shit

    so i would tentatively go with content being the basis of moderation in this instance for now
    that is of course if the alleged complaints were investigated and found to be justified.
    if that were not the case, i would say that at least one thread's closure was due to complaints alone

    what do you think? will you read and assess?

    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
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  5. Gustav Banned Banned


    pardon but i infer differently. lets recap.....

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    it appears you hold the quoted post as exemplary
    you go on to say that if all other posts of sam are of the same quality she is an exemplary poster

    based on that assessment alone you will judged the two threads as exemplary as well

    her priors and not on the content of the two threads

    ja or nein?
    is that not how you presented it to me?
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  7. Gustav Banned Banned

    since the mods insist that we are in a new and improved sci, we are forced to take into consideration the question of whether james was acting in good faith in the aforementioned instances.

    i mean, thats what the mods want from us yes?
    well we wanna know too

  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    The premise not granted, the subjunctive replaces in the conclusion.
    Abasement enduring mockery less onerous. Abeyance pending next relevance.
  9. Gustav Banned Banned


    in that case, (whatever it maybe

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    ) i see the ball is in your court

    a snicker? rather touchy are we?

    just holler if you wanna run some cryptic crap by me again
  10. Gustav Banned Banned

    this thread is actually a decent example of "priors over content"

    i have been cryptic in the past
    i am however fairly lucid here

    ice however allows the past to stain the present considerations
    thus his posting style
    an imitation so poorly executed that it is bordering on the nonsensical
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    I have yet to figure out what the basis of content evaluation is.

    What it clearly is not, is challenging, by means of substantial factual evidence, baseless claims and assertions.

    Regardless, any evaluation of "evaluation by priors" should necessitate a review of evaluation prior to my stand.

    Was it in any way changed by my stand or is it a continuation of existing policy that has been highlighted/exacerbated by my attention to it?

    Note that not even all of my threads or stands receive the same attention.
  12. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

    I've been catching up on the recent Jews/AntiSamitism thread and this sequel, realizing afresh how differently I perceive Sam's posting from many others. It's not just because I like Sam.

    As some know, I grew up in Lebanon and the Mideast, I've known many Palestinian refugees, witnessed associated wars, poverty, and despair, chaos, etc in a more direct way than many people. So antipathy for Israel's crimes, and for ideologies of Jewish exceptionalism is as familiar to me, as are lamentations about any common curse. Criticism of Israeli crimes seems no more biased or opinionated to me than complaints about any other catastrophes, natural or man-made.

    I'm not unbiased, because I have seen the human wreckage in the wake of Israel as a selective catastrophe, and seen awareness of it to be as selective in turn. Especially in the USA, awareness of Israeli crimes against Palestinians is conspicuously minute. Apologists for Israeli Apartheid are highly reactive to its criticism, and successful in suppressing doubts about the morality of Jewish apartheid in Israel. Neither the generalized cultures of my present home town, nor of Sciforums today are in alignment with my personal opinions on this general subject.

    I've been reading Sam's posts fairly closely for several years now. Only lately, I've attempted objective reviews of the same as a new moderator. I still lack any impression that Sam entertains ethnic bigotry towards Jews. Rather, I've seen her pitted against the standard smear that I too often face in many settings- the insecure, defensive insistence that criticism of Jewish separatism and criticism of Israeli repression is tantamount to antisemitism. I've seen her stubbornly weather the accusation time and time again.

    No matter whom it is directed to, this false and disingenuous conflation has become so widely reinforced that it challenges our objectivity on all sides. But where there is sincere respect for a scientific approach to human relations, I have deep faith that the emotional feed-back loops that too often derail clearer examination may be overcome.

    Israeli policy is conspicuously and consistently incompatible with the basic precepts of human rights that Israel's leading allies and enablers claim to respect. The present system of apartheid in Israel cannot survive an objective moral and ethical re-assessment by its international backers and bankrollers. Scientific appraisal of prominent modern political controversies must confront this paradox. We cannot enter into good-faith debate on this general topic without confronting the reality that Israel is a "modern" state founded on archaic and morally indefensible standards of human rights.

    But because of the fundamental moral insecurity of Israel, a familiar array of defense-mechanisms bristle up whenever the insecurity is assailed. For Sam, myself, or for anyone sympathetic to the plight of Israel's millions of victims, it requires exhaustive repetition to respond to all the standard defenses of the indefensible: Other oppressors have done/are doing it; Never Again (for Jews as victims); Jews require an exclusive Homeland; anti-zionism=anti-semitism etc. etc. round and round.

    Assessment of spoken and written opinion that is remotely objective or scientific on the subject can not fail to observe the lop-sided political "correctness" that is in vogue regarding Israeli policy. The heavily-conditioned zionist defense-mechanisms most often prevail here at Sciforums, just as they most frequently do in most public Western venues. Even though Israeli apartheid is no more defensible in political science than Creationism in geology, we remain at an impasse here in mutually recognizing (as a majority of members or moderators) the way faulty assumptions and willful ignorance uphold junk ideology.

    I tire of going around and around the subject, while the same patterns of pointing out and diverting from injustice play out again and again. But at the same time, I am confident that reason can prevail, and that reason will never rest on the side of those who will support overt and systematic state ethnic oppression.

    As a still-inexperienced moderator, I regularly train my sights on Sam's posts to challenge my own objectivity, and to challenge my own awareness of the standards we are endeavoring to raise around here. I know that there are members and mods who tire of the Israel debate, and I agree with them that too much fixation and repetition on a single controversy detracts from an atmosphere of scientific discussion. So I do occasionally slip off my safety-catch and vacillate, while a more tenured moderator pulls the trigger on another of Sam's "rant" threads relating to Israel.

    As I review locked threads sliding down into oblivion, I'm often disappointed that some of the closest approaches to the heart of the matter are buried within all the familiar emotional appeals, logical fallacies, and sour grapes.

    So I propose a variation on "evaluation by priors", and a variation on "S.A.M.'s Israel/Palestine Thread" where those of us particularly concerned with this specific area of debate collaborate on (yes another) Mother Of All Levantines thread or (dare I say) string, to include 1) the best of what's been thrown out with the blusterous bilgewater and 2) new content that does not run in circles, and does not degenerate into personal or ethnic fixations or attacks.

    I hope that such an effort would please those who tire of seeing a disproportionate number of threads on the general subject, while also holding the interest of anyone here who (like me) would like to see this particular arena of discussion and debate progress much further than it ever has thus far.

    So: I would like to hear from all members who have frequently posted in threads concerning Israel, Palestine, Jews, Non-Jewish Arabs, Names of Levantine places and foods, etc. (if you would find such a collaboration worthwhile).

    If it interests a few participants, I would welcome ideas and some agreement on a title for the most definitive and insightful Israel/Palestine thread ever seen here- or seen anywhere for that matter. In establishing such a fine but durable thread, I would welcome concerned member participation in recalling the very best of threads gone by. Provided a supportive consensus among members and my fellow moderators, I want to make such a thread a focal point of my (thus far feeble yet ambitious) efforts as a moderator.

    My notion of a fresh start at a recombinant Israel/Palestine thread is as vaporous as this post. I hope that some obscurity will provide filtering that will assist me in gauging whether the idea has merit among the members most concerned. But before I run on, and filter any interest to zero... That is all.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Well hype, I'm ready to follow your lead. Perhaps we could have discussions based on:

    1. why Israeli policy is incompatible with any human rights

    2. what is the reality of the situation for Palestinians

    3. what is the response of the world to the above.
  14. Gustav Banned Banned

    4. sciforum's despicable and disingenuous display of bad faith to all of the above
  15. Gustav Banned Banned


    since priors are all the rage in dumbfucksci, lets take a moment to reflect on sam's ethnic history and heritage with regard to the jewish people


    sam, have you indians persecuted or massacred the jewish peoples as the white folks have done?

    a simple yes/no/ignore would suffice

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    I almost kicked a Jewish guy once for being rude to his parents.
    Does that count?
  17. Gustav Banned Banned


    silly boy
    what did you expect?
    a honest discussion?

    just pay attention to what is being said
    if the reasoning by any party is fallacious or disingenuous....call and resolve it on the spot. be tenacious
  18. Gustav Banned Banned

    have you indian muslims persecuted or massacred those of the jewish faith as the white christians have done?

    a simple yes/no/ignore would suffice
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    To be utterly frank, I have no idea. I am not up to date on Jewish history in India. Its not as well recorded.
  20. Gustav Banned Banned

    i did
    pretty decent history till of late
    even then it was a pakistani terrorist group rather than indian

    The centre of the Chabad Lubavitch, an ultra-orthodox Jewish organization in south Mumbai, was the scene of the first attack on Jews in India in centuries - the only previously known case of anti-Semitism being the 16th-century inquisition by Portuguese colonialists in the south-western state of Goa. (link)

    just for a laugh...sam, have you muslims persecuted or massacred indian hindus as the white christians have done?

    a simple yes/yes/yes would suffice
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2009
  21. Gustav Banned Banned


    ahh of course

    the thread that caused this thread

    a post by sam......#220...complaining of discriminatory closures
    a post james........#221...complaining of complaints (whinge)

    then the lockdown

    it appears opportunistic and disingenuous based on timing alone
    you have an op #1 that complains about 2 closures
    we blabber on till #220 complains about another 3 closures

    it is now a whine even tho the op is practically indistinguishable from #220 in intent

    but no
    no priors
    james is clearly referring to the content of the thread

    on the other hand, that is a most superficial take on the issue
    i could take into account, the psychosocial characteristics and dynamics of sci, infer motives and .......comment

    why things unfold the way they do

    i see no need
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2009
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Yeah, didn't you hear about the partition?

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  23. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

    Yes, that's what I'm looking forward to.

    Roger, WilCo


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