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euthanizing the elderly?
- Thread starter laladopi
- Start date
I think it's only legal in Oregon, United States but I've always wondered why it was illegal myself.
Because the elderly are often mentally, as well as physically frail, and could be coerced into euthanising themselves.
To prevent this, there would need to be some sort of legal channel for people to register their intent to euthanise themselves, and then that starts getting tricky, as it appears the state are supporting the action, rather than supporting the individuals choice.
Personally, I think people should be allowed to, but we do have to make sure they are of sound mind at least, before making the decisions, so some referral is very necessary.
PS, congrats Lala, the OP was pretty succinct, and got your point across. Keep up the good work.
Well, they could always put it on a credit card or something...It practically is the elderly taking their own lives by their own choice.
They just have the proper and most simplest way to do so.
Although some elders do not have health insurance and such and wouldn't be able to even see a MD and an anesthesiologist. So it should be given to them regardless.
Easy enough to solve. Just require an affidavit from a psychiatrist stating that the person is of sound mind.Because the elderly are often mentally, as well as physically frail, and could be coerced into euthanising themselves.
To prevent this, there would need to be some sort of legal channel for people to register their intent to euthanise themselves, and then that starts getting tricky, as it appears the state are supporting the action, rather than supporting the individuals choice.
Personally, I think people should be allowed to, but we do have to make sure they are of sound mind at least, before making the decisions, so some referral is very necessary.
PS, congrats Lala, the OP was pretty succinct, and got your point across. Keep up the good work.
Easy enough to solve. Just require an affidavit from a psychiatrist stating that the person is of sound mind.
Just one? What recognised qualification? The state would have to set a standard.
The qualification would probably be "anyone licensed by to practice psychiatry in the state," much like the qualification for writing a prescription is "anyone licensed to practice medicine in the state." Of course there might be incompetent or corrupt people, but that's already a general problem with medicine anyway.Just one? What recognised qualification? The state would have to set a standard.
Because the elderly are often mentally, as well as physically frail, and could be coerced into euthanising themselves.
To prevent this, there would need to be some sort of legal channel for people to register their intent to euthanise themselves, and then that starts getting tricky, as it appears the state are supporting the action, rather than supporting the individuals choice.
Regardless of whether the state really cares for the person being euthanized doesn't really matter because if the elderly decides to be humanely euthanized they're still getting what they want out of it. Another thing that the state may have to do is pay for the funeral if the elder has no family members. The death that pertains to this law under the state needs to be carried it out as if procedural in such a case.
Personally, I think people should be allowed to, but we do have to make sure they are of sound mind at least, before making the decisions, so some referral is very necessary.
I agree, it becomes a complexity once you start thinking about it. There are so many variables that need to be taken into account.
PS, congrats Lala, the OP was pretty succinct, and got your point across. Keep up the good work.
:thankyou:
The qualification would probably be "anyone licensed by to practice psychiatry in the state," much like the qualification for writing a prescription is "anyone licensed to practice medicine in the state." Of course there might be incompetent or corrupt people, but that's already a general problem with medicine anyway.
Yeah, which is my concern. Add financial incentives/bribes to the mix and there are some pretty big concerns.
Seriously you think the state would follow through with someone that has credit card debt!?Well, they could always put it on a credit card or something...
Easy enough to solve. Just require an affidavit from a psychiatrist stating that the person is of sound mind.
This is true but not in every case would it be that easy.
Regardless of whether the state really cares for the person being euthanized doesn't really matter because if the elderly decides to be humanely euthanized they're still getting what they want out of it.
What we think think they wanted, ... we need to make sure they want it, beforehand, to make sure they aren't signing something they do not fully understand, because some avaricious beneficiary does not want their inheritance dwindling paying medicare for another few years.
What we think think they wanted, ... we need to make sure they want it, beforehand, to make sure they aren't signing something they do not fully understand, because some avaricious beneficiary does not want their inheritance dwindling paying medicare for another few years.
Well of course evil people would try and persuade or manipulate their parents or close relatives to euthanize themselves just for the benefit of gaining the elder's trust funds and wills. Yes, but I know for a fact the elderly woman I work for wants to die, for no other reason than she is basically immobilized and is no longer happy. But not every case could be so simply.
laladopi
this is how it COULD be done, i apologise for not giving a direct link to the Bill but i cant open it right now for some reason but im certian it still exists as it was a link to parliment. As i stated on that thread the bill does need amendments but its a start
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=87282
this is how it COULD be done, i apologise for not giving a direct link to the Bill but i cant open it right now for some reason but im certian it still exists as it was a link to parliment. As i stated on that thread the bill does need amendments but its a start
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=87282
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
When you die, your creditors are paid off out of your estate, before any of your heirs get to divide it up. Debts always come first. That includes liquidating assets like your house or your share of the family business if necessary. Your heirs will be given the option of paying the debts themselves, so they can continue to live in your house or to make a living from the family business.Seriously you think the state would follow through with someone that has credit card debt!?
The net worth of your estate will be a lot larger if you die before the hospital and nursing home have sucked off 90% of it in bills for services you didn't even want.
FR dont you think thats sad?
you have paid tax all your life and people are going to suck every $ they can out of your kids inhertiance and there for you want to die as quickly as possably just because there is no UHC and no goverment subsidised respite and hospise care.
For instance in Australia the nursing homes are required to take ONLY a set percentage out of the aged pention. There for whatever you own including house and even a certian level of cash which dont effect the aged pention are left untouched. As for acute care its free, symple as that
you have paid tax all your life and people are going to suck every $ they can out of your kids inhertiance and there for you want to die as quickly as possably just because there is no UHC and no goverment subsidised respite and hospise care.
For instance in Australia the nursing homes are required to take ONLY a set percentage out of the aged pention. There for whatever you own including house and even a certian level of cash which dont effect the aged pention are left untouched. As for acute care its free, symple as that
When you die, your creditors are paid off out of your estate, before any of your heirs get to divide it up. Debts always come first. That includes liquidating assets like your house or your share of the family business if necessary. Your heirs will be given the option of paying the debts themselves, so they can continue to live in your house or to make a living from the family business.
The net worth of your estate will be a lot larger if you die before the hospital and nursing home have sucked off 90% of it in bills for services you didn't even want.
What happens when a homeless senior with severe problems wants to be euthanized. They may not have any family descendants, property or the ability to even have a credit card in the first place. What should they pay for being euthanized. They should get the same treatment as someone that has enough money to pay for everything that needs to be taken into account, such as
the procedure its self, funeral and "disposal" costs etc.
What happens when a homeless senior with severe problems wants to be euthanized.....
wouldn't they just commit suicide?
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
You socialists out there in the People's Republic of Down Under just don't understand economics! You have no idea where wealth comes from. You think it just comes out of a magic spigot in the Capitol Building (or whatever you call yours) by just turning the handle. Hey Big Nanny, I need a house, a car, a TV, medical care... and now please give me seven years in a nursing home with round-the-clock top-quality care.FR dont you think thats sad? you have paid tax all your life and people are going to suck every $ they can out of your kids inhertiance and there for you want to die as quickly as possably just because there is no UHC and no goverment subsidised respite and hospise care. For instance in Australia the nursing homes are required to take ONLY a set percentage out of the aged pention. There for whatever you own including house and even a certian level of cash which dont effect the aged pention are left untouched. As for acute care its free, symple as that
Who the heck do you guys think pays for all that? Santa Claus? The taxes that Big Nanny collects are taken out of YOUR surplus productivity. You have spent your life producing goods and services, and because of the efficiency of the economy of a smooth-running capitalist civilization, what you've produced is worth a little bit more than what you've needed in return, even counting your discretionary spending on wine, concerts, vacations, a more comfortable car, a house in a prettier and quieter neighborhood, and a few other luxuries. So you save that surplus wealth in the form of "money," to hang onto and use later when you decide what you want, or when your needs start to catch up with you, and hopefully to pass some on to your loved ones or your favorite organization.
That "money" is used to pay all those kindly health care professionals who provide your end-of-life care. After all, SOMEBODY has to pay them. You're a health care professional; don't you expect to be paid? If I'm in a nursing home drooling and wearing a diaper and playing find-your-foot, are you going to say, "That's okay, Fraggle, you don't have to pay me because I'm a really nice guy and I want that money to go to your heirs. I'll just eat beans and sleep on the beach."
Oh, you say Big Nanny is going to pay you? Do you understand where Big Nanny got her money? She TOOK IT FROM ALL OF US. IT'S OUR MONEY. It doesn't matter whether we pay those medical professionals directly, or whether we let Big Nanny tax us to death and use our money to pay them herself. IT'S ALL THE SAME DAMN MONEY. (Actually it's worse, because Big Nanny is a godawfully bad money manager and throws most of that surplus wealth down the toilet through sheer bureaucratic inefficiency.) Using it to keep people alive who would rather be dead IS A WASTE OF MONEY and dissipates the nation's surplus wealth. Every dollar spent on my diapers is one dollar less available to pay for schools, subways and the National Ballet. Or a summer in Greece for your grandchildren.
Even this hard-nosed Libertarian has no objection to state-funded charity, if it's performed wisely. We don't want feeble old people lying around on the sidewalk attracting flies; in fact as a nation we all really do believe in providing a minimal level of care for everyone. Americans are one of the most generous people on earth. Just look at our "poor people": Their most common nutrition-related health problem is OBESITY!.What happens when a homeless senior with severe problems wants to be euthanized. They may not have any family descendants, property or the ability to even have a credit card in the first place. What should they pay for being euthanized. They should get the same treatment as someone that has enough money to pay for everything that needs to be taken into account, such as the procedure its self, funeral and "disposal" costs etc.
So by all means use tax dollars to provide peaceful goodbyes to people who want them. That's a hell of a lot better than paying to keep them alive when they don't want to be. That's what I hope for when I get to that point. Give my my ostrich egg and my iPod and set me down under a tree to watch one last California sunset.
It's not easy to commit suicide. It takes a little more courage, know-how and dedication than we imagine, just sitting here talking about it. Most people who try end up in the ER. And then there they are right back in a hospital, where the entire might of the county government will be dedicated to keeping them alive--at our expense.wouldn't they just commit suicide?
Besides, homeless people live on the streets precisely because they want to avoid being institutionalized. When they're younger they can manage to do that. When they're older they get a little slower and less adept, and the system starts to catch up with them and put them away. Any homeless person who is really old and decrepit will NOT be homeless any more, and he will no longer have the authority to make decisions about his own life. America does not leave sick, weak or disoriented people outside.
It's not easy to commit suicide. It takes a little more courage, know-how and dedication than we imagine, just sitting here talking about it. Most people who try end up in the ER. And then there they are right back in a hospital, where the entire might of the county government will be dedicated to keeping them alive--at our expense.
You are right, a lot of attempted suicides do not go as planned and end very badly. As I have mentioned many times before, my friend at the hospital sees it everyday. There are ppl that have been there for 10+yrs that have never left the hospital and will probably die there. Think of how much it costs to keep them there with round the clock nurses, supplies, valuable much needed space for other patients etc.
I hope I die before I start drooling on myself and wearing diapers. I do not want to go out like that or have my family remember me like that. I would rather someone smother me with a pillow and put
me out of my misery.
My mom died a few yrs ago from a battle with cancer. She made it clear that she did not want to be resuscitated, if it came down to that. She died in the hospital about 6 hrs we had all come to visit her.
They had the DNR order and she died peacefully the doctor told us. My brother however was making a big stink and we got into a huge argument. He wanted them to do whatever to keep her alive. I said that is what she wanted and made that clear. I got so pissed off and said you are being completely selfish and you don't have to live the life of pain she was going through, what gives you the fucking right to go against
what she wanted until you are ready to live in her shoes. She also wanted to be cremated and he made a big stink about that. He wanted to have her buried. I basically said I don't give a shit what you want, we are doing what she wanted. My dad at that point stepped in and him and I made all the arrangements ourselves. I have a real problem with family members who do not follow the instructions that someone has left and turns around and does what they want instead.
When I get that old I will have instructions for my family about what I want when I pass and I expect them to respect me enough to follow them, no matter how they feel about my decision.
DNR orders are worthless. As Asguard noted a couple of years ago, no doctor, nurse, EMT or other medical professional has ever been successfully sued for failing to honor a DNR. But they get sued all the time for honoring them.
I don't get how they are sued for honoring them if the patient has signed the proper forms when they entered the hospital. Why would they have such an order if they are going to get sued for honoring it? :shrug:
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Originally Posted by Fraggle Rocker
It's not easy to commit suicide. It takes a little more courage...
why does it take courage?
Originally Posted by Fraggle Rocker
DNR orders are worthless. As Asguard noted a couple of years ago, no doctor, nurse, EMT or other medical professional has ever been successfully sued for failing to honor a DNR. But they get sued all the time for honoring them.
my grandmother had one and died at home at 94. no machines or anything involved, no problems.
....DNR orders are worthless. As Asguard noted a couple of years ago, no doctor, nurse, EMT or other medical professional has ever been successfully sued for failing to honor a DNR. But they get sued all the time for honoring them...
All the time? I don't believe that. It may be how it is where he lives, but not in America.
And most terminal people aren't even in a hospital anymore. They get Hospice care.