euthanizing the elderly?

laladopi

time for change.
Registered Senior Member
I currently work for an elderly woman. She's 86 years old and suffers from horrible circulation problems in her legs, severe rheumatoid arthritis, horrible scoliosis, digestive tracked doesn't work well and doesn't want to be alive anymore. Due to that that she feels this way and indeed would be helping herself if she passed shouldn't she be able to? I am not talking about people in coma's although that could be brought up, but the elderly that no longer able to become any better and are unable to help or feel good about themselves.

I was just thinking I haven't come to which side I am for yet. Do you think the elderly with critical health conditions should have a say in taking their own lives?

In cases for elderly dogs being euthanized you do it on behalf of their benefit.
So wouldn't it be nice to choose that for yourself?
 
I currently work for an elderly woman. She's 86 years old and suffers from horrible circulation problems in her legs, severe rheumatoid arthritis, horrible scoliosis, digestive tracked doesn't work well and doesn't want to be alive anymore. Due to that that she feels this way and indeed would be helping herself if she passed shouldn't she be able to? I am not talking about people in coma's although that could be brought up, but the elderly that no longer able to become any better and are unable to help or feel good about themselves.

I was just thinking I haven't come to which side I am for yet. Do you think the elderly with critical health conditions should have a say in taking their own lives?

In cases for elderly dogs being euthanized you do it on behalf of their benefit.
So wouldn't it be nice to choose that for yourself?

Brilliant idea, but other people have already thought of your idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman
Harold Frederick "Fred" Shipman[1] (14 January 1946 – 13 January 2004) was an English general practitioner and convicted serial killer. He is the most prolific known serial killer in British history. 236 murders are ascribed to him, though the real number may be much higher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itu9o7iT8SY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Toppan
Jane Toppan (1854 - 1938), born Honora Kelley, was an American serial killer. She confessed to 31 murders in 1901. She is quoted as saying that her ambition was "to have killed more people — helpless people — than any other man or woman who ever lived."
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/321599/jane_toppan_nightmare_nurse.html

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/angels/male_nurses/3b.html

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/swango/index_1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Brinkley
 
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Doctors give out very strong pain medications and they say not to take more than 2 at a time because if you take more than 30 you will die. It is up to you to decide how many pills that you take when you are given them. So each of us will be able to commit suicide if we want to by taking to many polls. Don't make others take old peoples lives, let the old people do it them self.
 
The burden of proof is on you.

No it isn't. I don't have to prove that euthanasia isn't murder. It is by definition and by practice- suicide. It's a personal choice to end your life when life becomes too terrible to bear, and especially when you know you have a fatal disease, especially when it's very painful. It's a right.
 
Brilliant idea, but other people have already thought of your idea.

It's not my idea I am just thinking about the idea, not claiming it as my own.
I was bringing it here for conversation and clues to why it is not legal yet?
 
Doctors give out very strong pain medications and they say not to take more than 2 at a time because if you take more than 30 you will die. It is up to you to decide how many pills that you take when you are given them. So each of us will be able to commit suicide if we want to by taking to many polls. Don't make others take old peoples lives, let the old people do it them self.

It practically is the elderly taking their own lives by their own choice.
They just have the proper and most simplest way to do so.
Although some elders do not have health insurance and such and wouldn't be able to even see a MD and an anesthesiologist. So it should be given to them regardless.
 
It's not my idea I am just thinking about the idea, not claiming it as my own.
I was bringing here for conversation and clues to why it is not legal?

I think it's only legal in Oregon, United States but I've always wondered why it was illegal myself.
 
Please allow someone to speak on this subject who is much closer to it than you kids. At 65, my body is starting to fail. Not in any major way yet, but the signs are there. When the time comes that I'm in pain and/or my mind is starting to go so I'm no longer me, I do not wish to be kept alive just so a nursing home can continue to extract money from the estate I'd much rather leave to my heirs.

My mother had a "do not tube feed" order in her file at her nursing home, but when she got so bad that she couldn't eat, guess what? They started tube-feeding her. (Her mind was already about 75% gone, she was calling my wife by my ex's name, whom she hadn't seen in 30 years.) They knew we were 600 miles away and couldn't easily come down there and raise hell. Fortunately she died a week later (from aspirating food, duh!) before we were able to go down and raise hell. But they got the $750 for that extra week.

She had actually tried to die peacefully a year earlier. She'd had a couple of tiny strokes and was starting to have trouble, but she refused to go into a home and stayed in her mobile. One day she had another stroke and fell to the floor. She wasn't unconscious or immobile, but she just lay there very quietly and didn't get up to eat or anything. She was just waiting to die and be done with it. Of course when you live in a mobile park with a bunch of other seniors that ain't gonna happen. By the second morning everybody was asking, "Hey, have you seen Baba Fraggle lately?" Next thing she knew, the cops were breaking her window to get in, and she was stuffed into an ambulance. She had to endure another year of steady degradation and indignity, losing her mind and her body, as well as many thousands of the dollars she wanted Mrs. Fraggle and me and the rest of her descendants to have.

I had an aunt who did it right. When she started slowing down she bought a mobile and set it up out in the middle of nowhere in the Arizona desert where nobody could nanny her. They eventually found her dessicated body lying peacefully in bed.

DNR orders are worthless. As Asguard noted a couple of years ago, no doctor, nurse, EMT or other medical professional has ever been successfully sued for failing to honor a DNR. But they get sued all the time for honoring them.

Besides, after all this vitriol I have to say a kind word about all those nice people like Azzy. They've spent their entire educations and careers learning how to save lives and they often cry when they lose a patient. It goes against their nature to deliberately allow one to die, even if that's what he asked for. The people who ran my mother's nursing home may have been a little larcenous, but I'm sure the nurse's aide who put that tube down her throat was just doing what her heart told her to do.

So "death with dignity" is an uphill battle.

I once read about an African tribe who, in the 20th century, were still a Mesolithic people: nomadic hunter-gatherers. When one of them got too old, he'd start to have trouble keeping up with the rest of the clan. As long as he made it to camp by nightfall, they let it go. But when he couldn't quite get there in time and somebody had to go looking for him, the next morning they held a ceremony. They gave him an ostrich egg full of water (that's a hell of a lot of water), sat him comfortably under a tree with a little food, and then they all said their goodbyes and walked off on their next day's journey.

Ever since, we've had this little pact. "When I'm ready, give my my ostrich egg."
 
um FR you will find that wasnt me. Why do i point this out? because the statement is plain WRONG in australia, ambo's DO have some protection against that because not everyone has the paperwork to hand when an ambulance is called and the procidure is to continue untill the paperwork can be produced. Hospitals and nursing homes are a compleatly different situation and people HAVE been charged with assult for violating a medical power of attorney form or the orders of someone with power of guardianship or medical power of attorney. In fact the concent act is VERY specific to the point that someone who with a terminal illness cant have their medical agent challanged in court PERIOD.
 
Please allow someone to speak on this subject who is much closer to it than you kids. At 65, my body is starting to fail. Not in any major way yet, but the signs are there. When the time comes that I'm in pain and/or my mind is starting to go so I'm no longer me, I do not wish to be kept alive just so a nursing home can continue to extract money from the estate I'd much rather leave to my heirs.

My mother had a "do not tube feed" order in her file at her nursing home, but when she got so bad that she couldn't eat, guess what? They started tube-feeding her. (Her mind was already about 75% gone, she was calling my wife by my ex's name, whom she hadn't seen in 30 years.) They knew we were 600 miles away and couldn't easily come down there and raise hell. Fortunately she died a week later (from aspirating food, duh!) before we were able to go down and raise hell. But they got the $750 for that extra week.

She had actually tried to die peacefully a year earlier. She'd had a couple of tiny strokes and was starting to have trouble, but she refused to go into a home and stayed in her mobile. One day she had another stroke and fell to the floor. She wasn't unconscious or immobile, but she just lay there very quietly and didn't get up to eat or anything. She was just waiting to die and be done with it. Of course when you live in a mobile park with a bunch of other seniors that ain't gonna happen. By the second morning everybody was asking, "Hey, have you seen Baba Fraggle lately?" Next thing she knew, the cops were breaking her window to get in, and she was stuffed into an ambulance. She had to endure another year of steady degradation and indignity, losing her mind and her body, as well as many thousands of the dollars she wanted Mrs. Fraggle and me and the rest of her descendants to have.

I had an aunt who did it right. When she started slowing down she bought a mobile and set it up out in the middle of nowhere in the Arizona desert where nobody could nanny her. They eventually found her dessicated body lying peacefully in bed.

DNR orders are worthless. As Asguard noted a couple of years ago, no doctor, nurse, EMT or other medical professional has ever been successfully sued for failing to honor a DNR. But they get sued all the time for honoring them.

Besides, after all this vitriol I have to say a kind word about all those nice people like Azzy. They've spent their entire educations and careers learning how to save lives and they often cry when they lose a patient. It goes against their nature to deliberately allow one to die, even if that's what he asked for. The people who ran my mother's nursing home may have been a little larcenous, but I'm sure the nurse's aide who put that tube down her throat was just doing what her heart told her to do.

So "death with dignity" is an uphill battle.

I once read about an African tribe who, in the 20th century, were still a Mesolithic people: nomadic hunter-gatherers. When one of them got too old, he'd start to have trouble keeping up with the rest of the clan. As long as he made it to camp by nightfall, they let it go. But when he couldn't quite get there in time and somebody had to go looking for him, the next morning they held a ceremony. They gave him an ostrich egg full of water (that's a hell of a lot of water), sat him comfortably under a tree with a little food, and then they all said their goodbyes and walked off on their next day's journey.

Ever since, we've had this little pact. "When I'm ready, give my my ostrich egg."

Yes, I agree. I am currently working for an elderly woman, as you already may know. She tells me that she would like to sleep tonight and not wake up.
Her daughter gives me, along with a couple of other people compensation to help her "live" through the day. Doing such things as helping her in the bathroom, getting her dressed, and fed along with other duties. Any who, her daughter is overwhelmed by how much money she has to spend on her mother every week, I'd say about an average of 1500$ a week (As well as heating, food, electricity, medications etc.). If there was a legalization of "dying with dignity" all around America (hopefully the entire world) both people would be at ease and able to move on with relief and yes dignity. The fairness of it all in situations like this would be appreciated.

Basically, you are right I am one of those people that are "doing my job" but I cannot do anything about because it is only up to the family and the law to make such a decision. So with such cases as being a EMT or a paramedic, regardless of whether someone wants to die, the person that needs help could be going through a "phase" if you will, or something where I guess there mind's aren't in the right place at that moment. So it is up to the EMTs to safe a life that wants to be lost or loose a life that wanted to live (BIG QUESTION) I don't know I think in regards to death most people are very uneasy about it and cannot handle to fact that one eventually dies no matter how or when.
 
um FR you will find that wasnt me. Why do i point this out? because the statement is plain WRONG in australia, ambo's DO have some protection against that because not everyone has the paperwork to hand when an ambulance is called and the procidure is to continue untill the paperwork can be produced. Hospitals and nursing homes are a compleatly different situation and people HAVE been charged with assult for violating a medical power of attorney form or the orders of someone with power of guardianship or medical power of attorney. In fact the concent act is VERY specific to the point that someone who with a terminal illness cant have their medical agent challanged in court PERIOD.

No paramedic can help any one without permission of the person.
Is what your saying is If someone is incoherent and unconscious without paperwork from their records or whatever they cannot be helped?
 
sorry i didnt mean that to be unclear. Yes if you find someone unconcious then they are required to act to revive and treat (under the emergency powers of the consent act) no matter what their partner or other family says UNLESS someone can produce medical power of attoney, enduring power of guardianship, schedule 2 of the medical consent act, a DNR from their doctor OR the ambos themselves feel that its futile.

Now each of these has different weights, for instance violating the first 3 will land you with an assult charge (except in certain curumstances, for instance if you suspect an act by someone else). A DNR can be ignored if the ambo's disagree with it because its just a medical order rather than a statement of the pts wishes. As for the last, all the ambo's (even any students on the ambulances) have to agree with that decision. If anyone disagree's then treatment continues. Then in general treatment continues as one ambo takes the family off to talk to them and seeks their agreement as well. Though its not required, the first priority in these cases are the family rather than the pt who is going to die anyway.
 
A DNR order written on a patient does not mean that we do not treat. The DNR is effective only if one of the systems to immediate life goes awry, like the heart stopping, or breathing stops. If a patient is in a home or hospital, gets a temp or infection, we treat it unless ordered to do otherwise. I have never been litigated for honoring a DNR order, rather sometimes we do question why we prolong life on someone with a DNR. It is sometimes a very gray area but that is why it is helpful when we have written guidelines set up by the patient or the patient's family. It has to be specific, and I think it should also read that if guidelines are not followed the entity that is taking care of the person is liable for litigation. That should force many of the caregivers to honor the patient's wishes. Also, a will should be made by the patient that if family members interfere with the patient's wishes, they will be excluded from the will. Being a critical care RN working with patients and their families it gets very frustrating.....so be prepared as you get older, I am...
 
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