enlightmentisnowhere
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At least three minutes! Do you think that you could drop the mind for that long? I would guess not. Most of us can't.
But if you are really clever, all you need do is sit in it for a second, and you will see there is no you except for thinking so. There is no sense of boundary. The subject 'me' can only exist because of the object 'other' - with no thought, there is no sensation of separation. Only thought 'appears' to separate. That's my experience of a second of silence.
Four hours is pretty cool Oli. I'm impressed. That is 'intimidatingly competent'!
If there was no thought for that time and you did no disappear, could it be then that there isn't really a you after all?
And, were there any boundaries of a body in that silence?.....
Gilbert Schultz (urban guru cafe): Without a reference point (No Thing) what can anyone express about THAT?....
Was that your experience? If not, then the mind was not as silent as you suppose is my guess.
If there was no thought for that time and you did no disappear, could it be then that there isn't really a you after all?
And, were there any boundaries of a body in that silence?.....
Gilbert Schultz (urban guru cafe): Without a reference point (No Thing) what can anyone express about THAT?....
Was that your experience? If not, then the mind was not as silent as you suppose is my guess.
So if there isn't a me really how and why did I get back?
And what did I come back to?
What body?
:shrug:Well there was no awareness of myself, my body, my surroundings.
No awareness of anything.
How much more silent can it get?
I read it as enlightenment is nowhere:bugeye:
The question for you then is 'If there wasn't a 'me' then, why is there a 'me' now?'
You have to at least question which of the two is reality - the one with no you, no boundaries etc in it, or the you and the me and all the objects and separation.
What you are told by those who purportedly know is that you are that nothingness and the identity appears on that. The fact that it is thought that gives rise to the identification with the 'me' must be obvious to you from that experience. Think of someone who has no words with which to think - could they have any experience of separation. I know that it is hypothetical, but for me, it is obvious that without thought, there is only seeing. 'My' body, and everything that appears, appears in the same way in the seeing.
Surely it's the other way round: me being is is far more "normal" than me "not being here" based on occurrence at least.
Therefore the question would be: what was the anomaly caused me to lose sensation and identity?
I'm reasonably certain that the real me is the one that's aware.
The one that isn't here can hardly be "real" because there's nothing there.
There was no seeing; there was nothing.
No thought, no awareness, no sensation, no sound.
Nothing.
Why must that be the anomaly? Isn't it what IS when there is no interpretation? And isn't interpretation learned when that which you experienced was in the stillness with no learning or interpretation?
How fortunate you are to have tasted this nothingness. What you describe is what is often referred to by those who are clear on reality. And following that experience, they say, there is a being without being the 'me' and the story of 'me' plays on that.
Oh well, people like me chase after what you have described even though we trust what we are told by those who clearly know that there is no one to chase after anything, and you just throw it away like it is an anomaly.
Isn't the definition of anomaly "deviation from the norm"?
Since I have experienced sights, sounds etc for the majority of my life how can two or three 4 hour periods with "nothing at all be considered as anything but?
You keep missing the point: there was nothing.
Nothing at all.
Rien, nul, zero. Zip, zilch, nada.
There was no IS for it to be.
There was no "stillness" there was nothing.
There was no being.
There was nothing.
An absence of everything.
Why trust others?
Throw it away?
No,I put it to one side possibly.
It happened to me, it's part of me.
But it's not me, anymore than having chicken pox as a child is me.
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Enmos
Valued Senior Member
No, you said: "Enlightment is nowhere"
But you were no doubt aiming for this reaction, so please make your point.
Yes, Oli, I hear you, but do you hear me? I said that once this time of 'absence' passes, there is then...then...then...a being without a 'me' being there. But as you buy so strongly into the story of life, you missed it.
Why is it that we are always seeking? Why is it that things can always be better or worse? Why is it that society as a whole is never able to find the ultimate answer? Could we be looking in the wrong place, in the world of words, as is pointed out in pointings of non-duality?
I seek the ultimate and eternal relief from seeking. I seek to find the ultimate answer to contentment, and not transitory contentment, but everlasting contentment.
I don't just believe that contentment is in that 'nothingness' you describe - I have experience of freedom from the mind every moment of every day. Contentment is expanding regardless of what is transpiring. Judgement of what is, is falling away as thoughts are not bought into in the usual way most of us buy into them. Of course mind continues to be functional, but it is not expended on projections of past or future and is allowed to spontaneously arise in the moment as needed.
When I meditate I rarely experience nothing. Everytime its a bit different and I only do it for about 30 minutes at a time. Sometimes I can feel a very real energy that makes me feel good, maybe Ive just trained my brain to release endorphins, either way its cool. Meditating with your eyes open is basically a forced hallucination so I can tell Oli never tried this. You get to watch everything blend together and the illusion of the "reality" becomes very real. Everything becomes very surreal and dreamlike. Could be the DMT, not endorphins..
"'Reality' is the only word in the English language that should always be used in quotes."
-Anonymous
"'Reality' is the only word in the English language that should always be used in quotes."
-Anonymous
There's always an "I" in every experience. It's impossible to remove it.
I do hear you, but fail to see what I said:for me that simply was not the case.
It's called "curiosity".
Because otherwise they'd stay the same.
Is there one to find?
Back to curiosity - we look everywhere.
Then just stop seeking.
I didn't say anything at all about contentment.
In your experience anyway.