Enlightenment in 3 quick and easy steps

Stoniphi said:
Answer: by what you say/have said and how you say/have said it. You have a very narrow understanding of Buddhism and appear to expect others to marry that as well. If you were to read through this thread objectively you would be "enlightened" as to how you present yourself to others on this topic. Very much "my way or the highway", very attached to face.
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Oh, the irony ...
 
wynn said:
.....
I take what I believe to be the strongest stance I have access to, namely the Pali Canon, and test it against opposition. Someone claims to know better than the Pali Canon? Okay, bring it on! May the best man win!

The results are fascinating. But I guess that's between me and the Buddha.
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I take up the challenge! It might take a while to understand it all but I have started looking into it.
 
spidergoat said:
All I'm saying is that something happened to me which is consistent with historical reports. If you want criteria for how to attain it, that's useless. Not that it isn't good to read the masters, only that there never has been a step by step instruction manual. There is no connection between here and there, there are no steps. I don't know exactly why it happened. In a sense it was an accident of circumstance. I was in a state of almost desperate seeking, and in a meditative state caused by repetitive tasks (a low paying data entry temp job), and then my expectations were disrupted when I turned a page in a book and the next one was blank. For some reason this was the trigger and I realized that the thing I was seeking was here and not on a page, and that I had been very foolish. Like looking for your glasses only to realize you had been wearing them all along. But it was also accompanied by a profound shift in consciousness, like I wasn't the one experiencing. Like I was watching myself do things. But there was also an interesting kind of freedom there when you are no longer identified with the persona you have created, our "personality". Even gravity seemed a distant thing, I could barely feel the weight of my limbs. That's why I can't help being humble about it, it was nothing I did. It can scarcely be communicated. Language depends on shared experiences, and if an experience is totally new, there is no shared frame of reference to explain it. My point in reporting this isn't to inflate my ego, but to tell you the good news, that it's not as hard as you might think.
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spidergoat,
I had no idea that you ever had a spiritual experience. That is awesome!
 
Enlightenment in 3 quick and easy steps

I can beat that. 2 steps.

Step 1. Sit somewhere quietly.
Step 2. Clear your mind of ALL thoughts.

If you can do that for 10 minutes you are enlightened.
 
Captain Kremmen said:
Enlightenment in 3 quick and easy steps

I can beat that. 2 steps.

Step 1. Sit somewhere quietly.
Step 2. Clear your mind of ALL thoughts.

If you can do that for 10 minutes you are enlightened.
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It's been my experience that it's not the absence of thoughts. You can't stop your mind from stream of consciousness, but you can disassociate yourself from it. And I would add that disassociation is not an illusion, you really aren't those thoughts.
 
Sogyal Rinpoche................... frames the importance of the stream metaphor in relation to meditation and the nature of mind, the objective of a meditative sādhana:
"In the ancient meditation instructions, it is said that at the beginning thoughts will arrive one on top of another, uninterrupted, like a steep mountain waterfall. Gradually, as you perfect meditation, thoughts become like the water in a deep, narrow gorge, then a great river slowly winding its way down to the sea, and finally the mind becomes like a still and placid ocean, ruffled by only the occasional ripple or wave."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindstream
 
spidergoat said:
It's been my experience that it's not the absence of thoughts. You can't stop your mind from stream of consciousness, but you can disassociate yourself from it. And I would add that disassociation is not an illusion, you really aren't those thoughts.
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It seems rather circular .. you are not you ..

What are you ?
 
Captain Kremmen said:
Sogyal Rinpoche................... frames the importance of the stream metaphor in relation to meditation and the nature of mind, the objective of a meditative sādhana:
"In the ancient meditation instructions, it is said that at the beginning thoughts will arrive one on top of another, uninterrupted, like a steep mountain waterfall. Gradually, as you perfect meditation, thoughts become like the water in a deep, narrow gorge, then a great river slowly winding its way down to the sea, and finally the mind becomes like a still and placid ocean, ruffled by only the occasional ripple or wave."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindstream
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I like uninterupted steep mountain waterfalls.

I like great rivers that slowly wind their way to the sea.

Why are they the diminutive to still placid oceans so far as enlightenment is concerned ?


Edit - formatting
 
Meditation is not the same thing as enlightenment.

I think it was Allan Watts in The Three Pillars Of Zen who said that, when meditating, thoughts will arise 'like bubbles floating up from the depths of a deep, placid lake'. He advises 'do not deny them, do not follow them, do not attach to them, merely note their passing and continue to concentrate on your breathing'.

Years of daily meditation has been shown to thicken the myelin sheathing in the practitioners cerebral cortex, an observable physiological benefit. :)
 
Stoniphi said:
Meditation is not the same thing as enlightenment.
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OK, though we still don't have some consensus, or even individual views, on exactly what enlightenment means.

I think it was Allan Watts in The Three Pillars Of Zen who said that, when meditating, thoughts will arise 'like bubbles floating up from the depths of a deep, placid lake'. He advises 'do not deny them, do not follow them, do not attach to them, merely note their passing and continue to concentrate on your breathing'.
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Very good. Quite similar to some passages in the Orphic Hymns c.600 BC, Yogic Sutras of Patanjalli, etc. Even the Mahareshi Mehesh (sp ?) Yogi of 'Transcedental Meditation' fame, quotes exactly this - obviously having taken it from earlier sources.

Years of daily meditation has been shown to thicken the myelin sheathing in the practitioners cerebral cortex, an observable physiological benefit. :)
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Years of mediation on my part, have been shown to increase the thickness of my emm, cranium, an observable physical benefit in some cases .. :)

Edit, various
 
Captain Kremmen said:
People find that very disturbing.
Try it for a couple of minutes.
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I have .. in my case I end up brimming with admiration .. kidding .. I find it quite disconcerting. Particularly close up, when staring straight into my eyes - I find I have to look away after half a minute or so, as some intense, nervous feeling comes over me. It's one of the weirdest things I've ever experienced.
 
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