Do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?

Do you believe you have freewill

  • yes

    Votes: 5 45.5%
  • no

    Votes: 6 54.5%

  • Total voters
    11
Joe Rogan says the paradox we have freewill but some of us want to have all freewill and think we should be outside of God it was simple for us a machine can do it and A.I. may understand more but we cannot go outside the box ? We have examples that there have exceptions and the devil has the freewill where angels could not have freewill but he let it exist and outside his freewill and let humans make mistake. God elt teh devil amde a msitake but he could of fix it all but he elt things go it's natural destiny. Can we think of the box and show there is destiny we can change ? Yes there is.
 
But even at that point, I cannot promise that the math, physics, chemistry, and biology that come together to create our lives and carry our experiences is not utterly deterministic. That is, there is a range in which experience might look and feel like free will, but the scale of determinism↑ can easily exceed our recognition and comprehension. Or↑, as such, there is no guarantee that we could know, perceive, or otherwise easily recognize that determinism.

Actually… i cant not recognize determinism :cool:
 
Joe Rogan says the paradox we have freewill but some of us want to have all freewill and think we should be outside of God it was simple for us a machine can do it and A.I. may understand more but we cannot go outside the box ? We have examples that there have exceptions and the devil has the freewill where angels could not have freewill but he let it exist and outside his freewill and let humans make mistake. God elt teh devil amde a msitake but he could of fix it all but he elt things go it's natural destiny. Can we think of the box and show there is destiny we can change ? Yes there is.
Ok… i get what you mean:::

God gave us just enuff free will that the more fortunate among us are able to pull ourselfs up by our own boot-straps:cool:
 
Joe Rogan says the paradox we have freewill but some of us want to have all freewill and think we should be outside of God it was simple for us a machine can do it and A.I. may understand more but we cannot go outside the box ? We have examples that there have exceptions and the devil has the freewill where angels could not have freewill but he let it exist and outside his freewill and let humans make mistake. God elt teh devil amde a msitake but he could of fix it all but he elt things go it's natural destiny. Can we think of the box and show there is destiny we can change ? Yes there is.
Could you rephrase that or, can you just answer that you know a crack head that says they've found God through drugs that they are lying or not?
 
This is where I like David Bohm's "hidden variable" theory. I cannot argue the scientific merits but I have never liked the concept of particle-wave duality. IMO a particle and a wave are sufficiently different that they cannot possess the same properties at the same time.
And I believe that it does not in any way suggest religious aspects. I firmly believe in the mathematical neutrality of spacetime geometry.
True - cannot possess the same properties at the same time'. Experiments look at properties, so wave property could show up or particle property, but not in one experiment.
 
True - cannot possess the same properties at the same time'. Experiments look at properties, so wave property could show up or particle property, but not in one experiment.
Doesn't that imply a natural form of choice, albeit unconscious? The choice dictated by the event itself?
Is that not the definition of "variable" values?
 
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Don't worry Write4u, speaking about freewill is something huge and contradicts many areas. We all have an opinion and have freedom to respect each others opinion about freewill we still not seen everything about freewill in a.i., about more famous people like Einstein opinion and other great people. Who have given their take on freewill it is truly an important side of the freewill we all discover has many improtant discoveries.
 
Determinism isn't the problem. Without causality there would be no resulting dynamics.

Pre-determinism is the obstacle. There are too many local variables for many events to have any long-range purely deterministic chronology. This is why future events are probabilistic and become deterministic only an instant before the event itself. This is why quantum cannot be predicted, it has no pre-determined future.

This is condition is described in Chaos Theory. There will be order emerging from chaos, but the further we project into the future the fuzzier the probability of any specific event at a given time or place.

The brain is a prediction engine. And that ability to predict the future allows us to "set the stage" and prepare for a deterministic event to occur or to defend against.

When a part of a river often floods part of a town from spring run-off, we build levees when there is no flood today, but on the probability that there will be another flood sometime in the future.
I consider that an act of free will because it is not in response to an immediate causal "fight or flight" situation, but from a considered future risk assessment, a probabilistic condition that does not require an instant reaction, but does require pro-action, just in case.
 
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A perfect example of determinism overriding FW is demonstrated in the chessboard illusion.


No matter how hard you try to match A and B as presented, you cannot undo your brain's programming to see them differently. There is no free will involved in this. Your brain's original survival programming will not let "you" consciously modify the program and see the colors as being identical.
 
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No matter how hard you try to match A and B as presented, you cannot undo your brain's programming to see them differently. There is no free will involved in this. Your brain's original survival programming will not let "you" consciously modify the program and see the colors as being identical.
This is not an example of determinism or of a lack of free will. You misunderstand the terms.

You might as well assert that you can't look at an apple and see an orange and call that determinism or a lack of free will.
 
This is not an example of determinism or of a lack of free will. You misunderstand the terms.
I understand the term quite well. It is a perfect example of deterministic brain function overriding free will. Try to see the colors the same, you cannot do it, even as they are the same. I think we had this discussion a long time ago.

What I am presenting is a deterministic brain function that you cannot override by will. So far, it's the only real-world demonstration of this fact in this discussion. Can you do better?
 
You might as well assert that you can't look at an apple and see an orange and call that determinism or a lack of free will
That is a false equivalence. Here we are looking at 2 identical apples (squares).
Think it through.
 
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