Did Nothing Create Everything?

SetiAlpha6 said:
Alex, what would be proof of God to you?
Or, even evidence for God?
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You can't prove that something that is made up exists in reality.

I am entirely confident that if there was a god we would not be having this chat...you would not be clutching at straws to establish events are more than fiction which occurred thousands of years ago. I don't need evidence for things that are just there...like the Sun and the Moon...real stuff is not surrounded by make believe. All you offer is make believe, out of the thousands of invented make believe gods you have found one you want to be real but unfortunately it's absence in the world can only tell us it still only made up.
Consider this...this God has supposedly created everything for humans and never pops in, content to let his pets go unattended it seems...honestly read the story line and point to something that is not nonsense.
If there was anything evidence would be everywhere and not confined to the book setting out the make believe.
Alex
 
If God is a non-interventionist i.e. takes no part in society, why would there be evidence of him? I believe this is a part of the reason some do not believe in him: because HE PLAYS NO PART IN SOCIETY. He DOES NOTHING. This gives US everything. Another reason I think some do not believe in God is because they think he is dead; they think they have killed (him.)
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
I have seen people who hate God for allowing evil. And also hate God for punishing it. They just seem to hate God period, no matter what He does!!!

Then they claim that He doesn’t exist. So they are apparently hating, you can even see it in their face, a being that does not exist!

And people think I am weird!
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No one can or may save you but yoursrlf. If you suffer it's because of your own ignorance/bigotry over anger. I can take you there but you must walk the path on your own. Your own feeling are a result of your own actions. They can't hurt you if you don't suffer.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Please prove that the universe is eternal.
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What evidence do you want? The laws of thermal dynamics strongly suggest it is eternal...our best science can not identify a starting point ... it makes more sense than a made up god popping out of eternity to create a finite universe so one small planet can house his pets that he made out of clay and drowned most of them and later created a Son (which was really him) to be sacrificed so humanity could be forgiven ...what had they done again...
SetiAlpha6 said:
And that it also has the ability to create life from a rock, or anything else.
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We don't know that yet but certainly some think a made up god created life by moddling some clay ... And how do they know this? Because it's in their book...written by who?
Your straw man for science is clearly built with fundamental misconceptions drawing entirely upon the unrealist propositions in your god story...science does not know how life came about and has the honesty to admit such whereas your mob arrogantly claims you have all the answers but none of the evidence.
SetiAlpha6 said:
The God hypothesis includes the idea that He is eternal, that nothing never existed. And that God created the physical universe from His power and will.
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Well if nothing never existed there must always have been something which logically leads us to an eternal universe...
So on your version everything was created by magic...Ok but I do not believe it nor can I accept that such a proposition is at all possible.
Just one more made up god, just one more creation myth amidst the thousands ...
Alex
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
You can always go with the often used, there is no evidence that Pharaoh ever existed routine.
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You could also go with the notion that Moses was a myth borrowed from similar stories or the evidence in the link suggesting there was no invasion etc.
But the thing is why do we have to look to someone wandering in the desert for answers...you could think there must be something else other than one man's word ( a man who has yet to be shown to be more than myth) that he wrote down an unevidenced gods commands. I think it is a nice story and a good basis for introducing law but from any approach none of it establishes that a god exists ... God exists in the imagination.
Alex
 
Moses killed an Egyptian. This is evidence of the Oedipol complex: our desires to murder our Father, get our Mother pregnant, have intercourse with the child as it grows and tries to murder its' Father, the child offers oral sex to its' Father (rather than do it his way), and then ultimately the child murders its' Father. That is five individual points of sin: look at your hand. Five fingers! And you deny that God exists? It is simple biology: God CREATED us. The Oedipol complex is present because WE LOVE OUR MUM. That accounts for all five stages of sin, and exists FOREVER. Now you may say that none of this has ever happened, and to that I will write that YOU ARE STILL NOT THANKFUL?! Ungrateful, I call you. If you do not believe in God it is probable because you think he's dead. :)
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
You can't prove that something that is made up exists in reality.

I am entirely confident that if there was a god we would not be having this chat...you would not be clutching at straws to establish events are more than fiction which occurred thousands of years ago. I don't need evidence for things that are just there...like the Sun and the Moon...real stuff is not surrounded by make believe. All you offer is make believe, out of the thousands of invented make believe gods you have found one you want to be real but unfortunately it's absence in the world can only tell us it still only made up.
Consider this...this God has supposedly created everything for humans and never pops in, content to let his pets go unattended it seems...honestly read the story line and point to something that is not nonsense.
If there was anything evidence would be everywhere and not confined to the book setting out the make believe.
Alex
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He has “popped in”, and yes the evidence for Him is literally everywhere.

And yes, we don’t actually even need to have this chat. His existence is a plain and simple thing.

Creation itself demands a Creator. Done!

Back to your lives people.
 
It's unsurprising that they don't believe in Him SetiAlpha6, because He does NOTHING. He takes no part in society and so they cannot feel His presence. :)
 
Those who refuse to admit the Oedipol complex do so because they are worried that if they admit to murder, they will die. They are trying to evade justice.

Those who declare that they killed him because of what he did, are still ADMITTING MURDER. :)

Justice is the reason murder is illegal: the victim cannot kill them back. :)
 
scorpius said:
I believe Universe always existed in some form.
After all matter and energy from which universe is made of cant be destroyed or created only changed
Its endless and eternal
The Big bang was just another change universe goes thru
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I am no expert on this, but wouldn’t the universe have suffered a total heat death an eternity ago?
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Please prove that the universe is eternal.
And that it also has the ability to create life from a rock, or anything else.

The God hypothesis includes the idea that He is eternal, that nothing never existed. And that God created the physical universe from His power and will.

But I cannot prove it!
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If the Universe always existed that would mean no change, it's just always been here. We know that it was much smaller and hotter about 14 billion years ago.

Did you read my link above. Would that be a reasonable proof of God?
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
He has “popped in”, and yes the evidence for Him is literally everywhere.
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I can see how you can only see it that way but I still wonder why having rejected thousands of made up gods you still think in one case it will be different.
SetiAlpha6 said:
Creation itself demands a Creator.
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But how do you establish creation let alone establish that a god did the creation?
Being such a big job why not say 100 gods...a division of labour..some working on celestial bodies, some on life, some on laws...I mean how do you know anything you claim reflects reality.
SetiAlpha6 said:
Back to your lives people.
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Look I have been helping you gather a croud and now you tell them to just move on...I suggest we all sit back and enjoy your presentation of photos and map co ordinates and your take on the whole matter.
You seemed earlier to be concerned if you were allowed etc and now you have the stage....so what do you want to say?

Alex
 
TheFrogger said:
Moses killed an Egyptian. This is evidence of the Oedipol complex: our desires to murder our Father, get our Mother pregnant, have intercourse with the child as it grows and tries to murder its' Father, the child offers oral sex to its' Father (rather than do it his way), and then ultimately the child murders its' Father. That is five individual points of sin: look at your hand. Five fingers! And you deny that God exists? It is simple biology: God CREATED us. The Oedipol complex is present because WE LOVE OUR MUM. That accounts for all five stages of sin, and exists FOREVER. Now you may say that none of this has ever happened, and to that I will write that YOU ARE STILL NOT THANKFUL?! Ungrateful, I call you. If you do not believe in God it is probable because you think he's dead. :)
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I must say it is nice to have you contribute to Seti's thread, more so because I had not heard of the complex you refer to...I looked it up. But really it is just one man's opinion...If such a complex is reality why would it exist, is it a product of evolution?
What studies do you know of have been conducted to prove that such a complex exists outside of the mind of its creator.
I am interested to learn but I don't want to waste time if it is just some wild idea from someone who has no case studies etc.
TheFrogger said:
God CREATED us.
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Have you heard...extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence...you sound so certain so I guess you are the one who can provide extrodinary evidence...so in your own words, even someone else's, what do you feel is the evidence...and if you have only faith that's ok..but you see I just worry that there really is no reason to think there is a creator and mostly why so many people belief so firmly that there is...I just don't see it.
TheFrogger said:
Now you may say that none of this has ever happened, and to that I will write that YOU ARE STILL NOT THANKFUL?! Ungrateful, I call you.
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Now let's get something cleared up right now...I am , as are you entitled to an opinion, and if I reject the complex I have every right to do so...who are you to say Sigman Fraud is correct...I could be swayed I suppose with presentation of case studies but even then we are in an area where I expect many could offer different observations. On the face of it I think it sounds too creepy to be true.
And I have said that I appreciate you joining the thread and I don't expect you would get such a kind reception from anyone else who believes the opposite to what you think...moreover there is no need to get upset and don't you dare blame me that's it's my fault..it's your choice to get upset and your responsibility to behave reasonably.
Calling me ungrateful is simply wrong and judgemental in my view.
TheFrogger said:
If you do not believe in God
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It will be for my reasons and not your supposition as to what I think...A big problem for a theist is they can only approach an atheist on the basis that they reject god or in your case put forward the notion that I think god is dead...well just take a moment to let this sink in...I do not think there is a god or that there was a god and he is dead or that he is busy in eternity...and that belief merely comes from my personal observation that there is no evidence and that given there are thousands of gods on the scrape heap that probably suggests gods are the invention of man. Further it makes more sense to me that the universe is eternal and that there never was a creation point and therefore no creator is required.
Now I could be wrong but so could you.
Again I thank you for your input I find it rewarding to read your views.
Alex
 
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