December 7th

O

Orleander

OH JOY!!!!
Valued Senior Member
so, does anyone do anything special? I put on my pin (it was my grandpa's) and that's about it. I just feel like I should do more, but....I don't.
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Because growing up, my brother's Little League coach was at Pearl Harbor. It meant something then and it still does.
 
Orleander said:
Because growing up, my brother's Little League coach was at Pearl Harbor. It meant something then and it still does.
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By that logic, Kevin Bacon could be connected to Pearl Harbor, so we should remember it.
Why is the day special?
 
Xev said:
By that logic, Kevin Bacon could be connected to Pearl Harbor, so we should remember it.
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What? I just asked if anyone else did anything. I didn't demand that you do something and if you didn't then you are bad. :bugeye:
 
Orleander said:
What? I just asked if anyone else did anything. I didn't demand that you do something and if you didn't then you are bad. :bugeye:
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I'm just curious why you think it's especially important, why you feel that wearing a button isn't enough.

No offense meant by the Kevin Bacon bit. :)
 
Its special to me because someone we know and respect survived it. And I'm from a military family. And I know it meant something to my grandpa. It was their 9/11 and I know how I felt on that day.
I just feel while there are survivors still alive, we should show some appreciation.
 
Orleander said:
Its special to me because someone we know and respect survived it. And I'm from a military family. And I know it meant something to my grandpa. It was their 9/11 and I know how I felt on that day.
I just feel while there are survivors still alive, we should show some appreciation.
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Ah. Perhaps you could have a moment of silence before dinner, or if you have time you could volunteer at a veteran's center?
 
I had a WW2 friend that recently died. We would get together and raise the

American flag in the front of his house on Dec 7 for many years. We would

salute it then salute each other for we are both veterans just of different

wars.I'm going to miss him this year and I don't have a flag but will still

salute him and the first flag I see. It will be a day of remembering the times

he and I had together talking about "his" war mostly.
 
When you are doing a moment of silence...sit and wonder why U.S Command decided to line up the battleships like targets for several weeks.

Japan - planning pearl, for weeks:

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Excerpt of memo from Lieutenant Commander Arthur McCollum of the Office of Naval Intelligence, submitted to Navy Captains Walter Anderson and Dudley Knox. The October 7, 1940 memo contained an 8-part plan to counter rising Japanese hegemony over East Asia, and a pre-Pearl Harbor estimation of the Pacific situation. The memo remained classified until 1994.(Freedom of information act)


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7 October 1940



8. A consideration of the foregoing leads to the conclusion that prompt aggressive naval action against Japan by the United States would render Japan incapable of affording any help to Germany and Italy in their attack on England and that Japan itself would be faced with a situation in which her navy could be forced to fight on most unfavorable terms or accept fairly early collapse of the country through the force of blockade. A prompt and early declaration of war after entering into suitable arrangements with England and Holland, would be most effective in bringing about the early collapse of Japan and thus eliminating our enemy in the Pacific before Germany and Italy could strike at us effectively. Furthermore, elimination of Japan must surely strengthen Britain's position against Germany and Italy and, in addition, such action would increase the confidence and support of all nations who tend to be friendly towards us.

9. It is not believed that in the present state of political opinion the United States government is capable of declaring war against Japan without more ado; and it is barely possible that vigorous action on our part might lead the Japanese to modify their attitude. Therefore, the following course of action is suggested:

A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore.
B. Make an arrangement with Holland for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies.
C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek.
D. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore.
E. Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient.
F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in the Pacific in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands.
G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil.
H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire.
10. If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better. At all events we must be fully prepared to accept the threat of war.

A. H. McCollum

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Page [5]

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7 October 1940


Summary


1. The United States is faced by a hostile combination of powers in both the Atlantic and Pacific.

2. British naval control of the Atlantic prevents hostile action against the United States in this area.

3. Japan's growing hostility presents an attempt to open sea communications between Japan and the Mediterranean by an attack on the British lines of communication in the Indian Ocean.

4. Japan must be diverted if British opposition in Europe is to remain effective.

5. The United States naval forces now in the Pacific are capable of so containing and harassing Japan as to nullify her assistance to Germany and Italy.

6. It is to the interest of the United States to eliminate Japan's threat in the Pacific at the earliest opportunity by taking prompt and aggressive action against Japan.

7. In the absence of United States ability to take the political offensive, additional naval force should be sent to the orient and agreements entered into with Holland and England that would serve as an effective check against Japanese encroachments in South-eastern Asia.


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Comment by Captain Knox

It is unquestionably to out general interest that Britain be not licked - just now she has a stalemate and probably cant do better. We ought to make it certain that she at least gets a stalemate. For this she will probably need from us substantial further destroyers and air reinforcements to England. We should not precipitate anything in the Orient that should hamper our ability to do this - so long as probability continues.

If England remains stable, Japan will be cautious in the Orient. Hence our assistance to England in the Atlantic is also protection to her and us in the Orient.

However, I concur in your courses of action we must be ready on both sides and probably strong enough to care for both.
D.W.K.


Re your #6: - no reason for battleships not visiting west coast in bunches.
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nietzschefan said:
Excerpt of memo from Lieutenant Commander Arthur McCollum of the Office of Naval Intelligence, submitted to Navy Captains Walter Anderson and Dudley Knox. ....
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And? What purpose does it serve to look for plots and conspiracies? To get angry at dead people?
 
Xev said:
By that logic, Kevin Bacon could be connected to Pearl Harbor, so we should remember it.
Why is the day special?
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I just couldn't resist, but he actually can be (to the movie Pearl Harbor at least).
1. Pearl Harbor stars Kate Beckinsale
2. Kate Beckinsale was in the movie Click with Sean Astin
3. Sean Astin was in the movie White Water Summer with Kevin Bacon
 
Orleander said:
And? What purpose does it serve to look for plots and conspiracies? To get angry at dead people?
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To honour the victims, and people like your grandpa. Finding out when governments lie to their own people and trick them, is always important. If they get away with it once, they might do it twice(911). Now they will do it as much as they like. You live in a police state.
 
Good for you.
I still call 'em Japs.

Anyway Japan was military state and acted like one. America got itself in WWII - fought military states bent on world domination...only to win and become one.

"He who fights with monsters for too long, risks himself becoming a monster".
 
at the time, yes.
It serves no purpose now. I don't want to show my appreciation and respect with anger.
I think we'll be going to the VFW that night. I know they are holding a ceremony at the exact time the attack started, but I don't think we will be able to make it.
 
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