Cryonics

[duendy]

I hear you duendy, but until you can show me proof, documented proof, that nature is conscious,

me))))documented proof hey? tat very idea-demand comes FROm thematerialistic idea that only thru measure can you know....! that aything that cant be measured must be false. and underlying tis attitude is the object/object dichotomy which patriarchy has created amongst its many followers both 'religious' and 'secular'. Rather the actual FEELER, YOU is how you come to understand and feel Nature is alive. this shit dont come in a test tube or peer reviewed paper. tho of course it can include analysis and reasn. but therehas to bea point you FEEL it, as in sense of deep connection with environment and this is not measureable

you will continue to sound just as bad as the christians, jews, muslims and mormons of the world. Do you realize that that is how you sound when you talk about nature?

then you have obviously totally misunderstood me completely mate. Christian Muslims and Jews and Mormons are belief systems all stemming from the patriarchy. liaten close. theyt do NOT believe that Nature is live. in fact they want out and/or to 'spiritualize' Nature from its 'fallen' state. The Indigenous understanding is that Nature already IS alife, IS sacred. and by 'sacred' i am not meaning how patriarchs have appropriated the term to mean divided from the 'profane'. for what the patriarchs did/do is ABSTRACT sacred put of Natue and put it in the sky etc, thus de-spiritualizing Nature and guilting its believers to believe they are born in sin, or must cowtow to a 'God'

so sorry dude. i a not sounding like them at all........?

 

[Cottontop3000]

Christian Muslims and Jews and Mormons are belief systems all stemming from the patriarchy.

So, you'd have me trade a patriarchal belief in an imaginary god for a matriarchal belief in an imaginary, conscious mother nature. Get real.

so sorry dude. i a not sounding like them at all........?

No, you're right. You aren't sounding like them at all.

If you are going to discount all legitimate science, in order to expound upon your tired argument for mother nature (as equally old and decrepit a belief system as christianity, judaism, islam and too many other old, archaic belief systems to name) -- then please listen. I hear what you're saying, and I don't need to hear it anymore.

Please stick to the topic of cryonics here, if you don't mind terribly much.

 

[duendy]

Actually i do mind, and wont. of course you can ignore what i say, that's up to you, but if you could see, this isn't just an isolated ubject, tis has to include what i am fukin talkin about. actualy no issue is specialized in essense. so....to continue then!

So, you'd have me trade a patriarchal belief in an imaginary god for a matriarchal belief in an imaginary, conscious mother nature. Get real.

me))))))alright i can dig what you mean. you are beliving you can be had by both, and you, being the hard heDED DUDE YO IS DONT WANT NO MORE BULLCRAP. YOU WANT REsults, evidence. certainty.
well i am encouraging you to then study more closely what i am saying is all. this is not a criminal offence is it....???
the whole transition from prepatriarchal to patriarchal is a huge difference psychologically. for xample. in every institution, take the ingrained notion that the male 'MUST' separate from mother. This idea is edmic in patriarchal culture.
In psychoanalysis we have had Frued calim that the desire for bliss , ecstasy, pleasure is the 'regressive' need to 'reurn to the womb'. all implying a put-down
But rally our deepness IS that, and this is what patriarchy suppresses. it suppresses ecstatc expresion with its war on it. it doesn't want us being emotional and despairing about the way things is going with this crazy shit----which i had ASSUMED YOU were 'tired of???--and seek to drug it away and claim it is merely 'chemical imbalnce' etc. wit me? so this shit goes right to the heart of what actually ar feeling right now. it's no littel thing.

No, you're right. You aren't sounding like them at all.

If you are going to discount all legitimate science, in order to expound upon your tired argument for mother nature (as equally old and decrepit a belief system as christianity, judaism, islam and too many other old, archaic belief systems to name) -- then please listen. I hear what you're saying, and I don't need to hear it anymore.

me)))oh what am i fukin botherin wid you for. fuck you. i tried to be a friend and you've thrown it in my face. go and gett your silly fukin brain frozen. like i care....??

Please stick to the topic of cryonics here, if you don't mind terribly much.

STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE I'M OUTTA HERE AND YO LIFE!

 

[Cottontop3000]

Now, how much does a normal burial cost?

 

[Roman]

Now, how much does a normal burial cost?

Like the kind the funeral director tells you is "normal?" Tens of thousands of dollars, and most of it is gonna be buried with you. 28 grand sounded about right.

Burial is outdated. It's for those that think Gawd will raise them come the rapture or whatever. Just wrap me in newspaper and leave me for the trash man. Or better yet, turn me into mulch and fertilize the plants with it. Then, after the plants mature, my friends and family could eat them. That way I could live on, forever! Or, I could just have kids.

What's freezing cost?

 

[domesticated om]

If cryoprotectants are present, the freezing point of the unfrozen solution drops sooner and faster, limiting the total amount of ice that forms.

I wouldn't trust anything that wasn't 100%. This process looks to me like it REDUCES the strawberry effect as opposed to eliminating it. I could picture those who went through the procedure being thawed out, and encounter some pretty nasty hemorrhaging on the various spots where the solution failed.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Like the kind the funeral director tells you is "normal?" Tens of thousands of dollars, and most of it is gonna be buried with you. 28 grand sounded about right.

What's freezing cost?

At the Cryonics Institute, they charge $28,000 for a whole-body suspension. That's where that number came from. Reference my third post in this thread for the details of two of the largest organizations that are freezing people.

I wouldn't trust anything that wasn't 100%. This process looks to me like it REDUCES the strawberry effect as opposed to eliminating it. I could picture those who went through the procedure being thawed out, and encounter some pretty nasty hemorrhaging on the various spots where the solution failed.

This isn't a guarantee. It's a chance. By the time that you are thawed, technology, however, should be sufficient to overcome almost any obstacle. Long term memory is the important part, and it's stored in many places all over the brain. Not in just one cell or cluster of cells. Redundancy. The physical problems of having a body brought back to life will be the easy part.

 

[invert_nexus]

Why would you want to be the un-frozen caveman lawyer?

Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW.. and run off into the hills, or wherever.. Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: "Did little demons get inside and type it?" I don't know! My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.​

What makes you think the future would want you around anyway? Except as a novelty.

And a head in a jar?
Oooh.

Head in a jar. Head in a jar.
I want to be a head in a jar.
Can I stand in line to be a head in a jar?
Will I get a lot of pussy being a head in a jar?
Who'll drive my car when I'm a head in a jar?
Will I get very far as a head in a jar?
I don't know and no one can say.
But I really want to be a head in a jar.....​

That was an original composition by yours truly.
Worship me.

Anyway. It would suck to be a head in a jar.
And it would suck to get made fun of for being a slow and primitive screwhead.
There is no time like the present.


By the way, Timothy Leary was signed up to be a head in a jar. But he apparently got into some kind of squabble with Alcor and opted out. Now instead of a head in a jar, he's ash in a jar....

Is there really much difference?


Also.
Even the cardboard box to get cremated in costs 100 bucks....

 

[Cottontop3000]

Why would you want to be the un-frozen caveman lawyer?

Because I'm in love with Amy Wong!

What makes you think the future would want you around anyway? Except as a novelty.

After another few thousand years, they might forget that I'm a novelty. Hell, it might only take a few decades for them and myself to forget.

And a head in a jar?
Oooh.

Head in a jar. Head in a jar.
I want to be a head in a jar.
Can I stand in line to be a head in a jar?
Will I get a lot of pussy being a head in a jar?
Who'll drive my car when I'm a head in a jar?
Will I get very far as a head in a jar?
I don't know and no one can say.
But I really want to be a head in a jar.....​

Do you think that we will never be able to transplant a brain into a newly grown body?

That was an original composition by yours truly.
Worship me.

All praise the ancient of days.

Anyway. It would suck to be a head in a jar.
And it would suck to get made fun of for being a slow and primitive screwhead.

Hey, if that's your biggest worry, I don't think you'll have any problems. Get lost in new designer drugs that have no negative physical consequences while fucking Catherine the Great's brains out in a VR machine. They'll never know you. If this was a jab at me, blow me.

There is no time like the present.

Or the present 1000 years from now.

By the way, Timothy Leary was signed up to be a head in a jar. But he apparently got into some kind of squabble with Alcor and opted out. Now instead of a head in a jar, he's ash in a jar....

Apparently he changed his mind after a fallout with members of CryoCare (a company that split from Alcor in 1993) over his wanting to commit suicide as a sufferer from prostate cancer and CryoCare's desire that everything be on the up-and-up. Here is an article from the LA Times about it: http://rae.tnir.org/documents/2005/cryonics/latimes/1996-05-09.html

Is there really much difference?

If you want to live, there could be. You may wonder at my choice in this matter, seeing as how I hate life and all. However, my hope is that in 50 or a 100 years there will be much more understanding of depression and all the other reasons that I hate life.

Also.
Even the cardboard box to get cremated in costs 100 bucks....

I don't doubt it.

 

[loophole]

I definitely want to be frozen, have the chance to see what the future may be like, ok so its only a chance but who knows what the advances of nanotechnology and technology we can only dream of may bring in 500 to a thousand years if the human race still exists.

Think of it this way it would be like falling asleep and waking up the next day so to me even the smallest chance of being woken up appeals to me, as technology gets more and more advanced this "smallest chance" would become a "bigger chance",

what would suck though is if I were put into some ROBOCOP by the government to fight some sort of Cyberwar, but hey thats the chance I am willing to take.

I respect people who believe in God and the afterlife and I am open minded about such subjects, but I wish people would also respect peoples wishes and beliefs on such subjects as these, instead of try to ridicule them.

Who are you to say that technology won't exist in the future to bring people back to life who have been frozen.
Who am I to say God doesn't exist.

 

[duendy]

just let me say as way of final goodbye tothis thread....all yo idiots who want yer brians frozen?...well yer half way there already!

 

[Cottontop3000]

Think of it this way it would be like falling asleep and waking up the next day so to me even the smallest chance of being woken up appeals to me, as technology gets more and more advanced this "smallest chance" would become a "bigger chance",

That's what I'm hoping for. I think you are right about the chances getting better and better every day. The more people that get interested in this, the more money there will be to research the technology that will someday revive those of us who chose to do this.

Think about this. There may exist the technology right now to prevent the death of another human being, ever.

 

[draqon]

Well the main problem with cryogenics is how fast freezing and unfreezing is done. Basically if a new technology was developed in freezing the body very fast, say by instant liquid nitrogen submersion...not sure how...this will allow the cells to freeze without turning into crystals. However the unfreezing part is much more complicated...The only way I imagine of unfreezing the body is one cell at a time using nanotechnology, nanorotobots that unfreeze the cell and make an illusion of the cell membrane as though it was in a regular state around cells. Thus if each cell was processed at a time using nanorobots that would have specific chemicals and water release and absorption to fake the cell environment...the unfreezing can be done. The main problem here is of course the nanotechnology itself, so far the only advance in nanotechnology that was done up to this day is the nano-engine, acts something like the muscle...uses potassium and sodium pumps...

So yes I would say that to be able to freeze a person and unfreeze him it would need the development of nanotechnology

Another problem is of course the CHOICE. Do you really want to be frozen and unfrozen and then face the future with all its curiocity and the feeling of being out of place, a feeling of not being connected to the surroundings? Do you by any chance accept a possibility that death is a beginning of a new life? That death is when you loose your body and memories but your consciousness transcends into another body? Wouldnt that be great to have a bold new future, new possibilities ahead of you?

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

The problem as I see it is not whether it works, but if it works.

Imagine, you 'die' aged 66 for example, and are revived some 60 yrs later. In your brain you will be 66 having closed your eyes for a moment and woken up in new body. All your loved ones will be dead or themselves frozen or themselves in new bodies, or very aged. What would be the psychological impact of this?

Remember, even though 60 yrs have passed, to you, only moments will have passed. You will not have had any time to be mentally prepared for what awaits you when you awake, it will be like waking up in a dream and remaining in it. Your past life entirely lost.

 

[Theoryofrelativity]

Think about this. There may exist the technology right now to prevent the death of another human being, ever.

We will have enormous problems with population explosion if we develop technology wherein we do not die ever! How do we viably support every new living being as well as every being that existed before them? Logans Run springs to mind.

 

[Cottontop3000]

Dragon and ToR, you two are free to die, if you like. That is your choice, not mine. If there is a god, dragon, I can always choose to take that risk of finding out at some point in the future. There is no rush, and, perhaps, through the process of cryonics, an answer will be found to the age-old question of god or no god.

As to population explosion, we will find an answer.

You will not have had any time to be mentally prepared for what awaits you when you awake, it will be like waking up in a dream and remaining in it. Your past life entirely lost.

And a new one waiting to be started. It will be like having a second chance at life. A chance to start over. To do things differently. With no rush whatsoever. Imagine knowing that you could live forever. Imagine everyone knowing that they could live forever. Imagine exploring new worlds, new stars, finding new life in the universe. To me, the promise and the payoff are worth the small risk of never finding god.

 

[dsdsds]

Face it, and accept it. YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. Everyone dies. It's not THAT big of a deal, really. There are infinitely more-significant endeavors the human race should be working on.

 

[Cottontop3000]

I'm not gonna miss your dumb ass, dsds. Did you know that in the future even someone like you can be smart?

 

[Possumking]

Face it, and accept it. YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. Everyone dies. It's not THAT big of a deal, really. There are infinitely more-significant endeavors the human race should be working on.

I know I'm going to die. But I don't know whether I'll be brought back to life. That's what he is talking about. I mean, hey, it'd be so pimp to see the year 3000. Although It would suck knowing that everyone you knew was dead. Unless they were frozen as well. Now that would be super hella pimp.

 

[Cottontop3000]

LOL. Yes, super hella pimp. I wonder though. Even if the people you knew from this time period were not around in the future when you were revived, how long would it take for you to make new friends? I can understand missing your brothers, mother or father, a spouse or your best friend, but after another 1000 years, would they be anymore than just a distant memory? Wouldn't we just go on, like we do now when we lose someone close?