Creation of the universe from the middle out....

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Atlan0001

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I always have the strangest feeling that the universe is always in creation from the middle out, future histories (concurrency) forward and past histories (the foundational props) behind, accelerating in expansion out from the middle out, NOW this instant. That right NOW, this instant, is the endless beginning of the universe . . . of all universes. That it is the only real possibility of creation, of beginning, and of the continuous life and physics -- the whole thing -- of the universe.
 
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Atlan0001 said:
I always have the strangest feeling that the universe is always in creation from the middle out, future histories (concurrency) forward and past histories (the foundational props) behind, accelerating in expansion out from the middle out, NOW this instant. That right NOW, this instant, is the endless beginning of the universe . . . of all universes. That it is the only real possibility of creation, of beginning, and of the continuous life and physics -- the whole thing -- of the universe.
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Nonsense.
 
Pinball1970 said:
Nonsense.
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A seedling tree sprouts roots and other branches from the central trunk, from the center, the middle, not the roots nor the other branches splitting strings out from trunk position. The trunk itself expansive in rings, the whole a multiverse universe.

Of course to you, a tree's physics, the beginning always beginning in the middle, the center heart of the tree, and equally but oppositely, all the outbranching branch roads leading back to Rome, as the historical saying goes, in that same center position, would be all "nonsense" cosmic physics to you, as you clearly state anyway in your own one, single, word that covers all your thinking.
 
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Atlan0001 said:
A seedling tree sprouts roots and other branches from the central trunk, from the center, the middle, not the roots nor the other branches splitting strings out from trunk position. The trunk itself expansive in rings, the whole a multiverse universe.

Of course to you, a tree's physics, the beginning always beginning in the middle, the center heart of the tree, and equally but oppositely, all the outbranching branch roads leading back to Rome, as the historical saying goes, in that same center position, would be all "nonsense" cosmic physics to you, as you clearly state anyway in your own one, single, word that covers all your thinking.
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Yep, stupid incoherent nonsense with absolutely zero connection to physics, science and reality.
 
Atlan0001 said:
You are not widely enough read. That is only too obvious!
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It is no more or less "obvious" than 'The Moon is a silver chariot, racing across the sky.'

Your passage and the above passage are both metaphors; they may be pretty and they may be emotionally evocative, but they are not accurate nor informative. Describing the Moon as a chariot is no more or less useful than describing the universe as a tree.

And it's fine - metaphors are fine in the Free Thoughts forum, but there's not really much to discuss here. I'm not sure what kind of responses you were expecting, but it seems the expression GIGO is germane here.
 
DaveC426913 said:
It is no more or less "obvious" than 'The Moon is a silver chariot, racing across the sky.'

Your passage and the above passage are both metaphors; they may be pretty and they may be emotionally evocative, but they are not accurate nor informative. Describing the Moon as a chariot is no more or less useful than describing the universe as a tree.

And it's fine - metaphors are fine in the Free Thoughts forum, but there's not really much to discuss here. I'm not sure what kind of responses you were expecting, but it seems the expression GIGO is germane here.
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Describe accurately an infinite universe, a multiverse, and a big bang horizon since you are the all knowing expert on the physics and cosmology of universe and/or universes telling me off!.

Michio Kaku once described strings in terms of the "music of the strings." Albert Einstein said "God does not play dice with the universe." Stephen Hawking came back with "God does play dice with the universe but they're loaded." Hawking described a "Grand Central Station of the Universe" having a special clock hanging over the dead center of the station having only a single digit and a single hand eternally pointing to the time of the Universe. Schrodinger had his "cat." Roger Penrose called the universe "The Table of God." I've read elsewhere along the same line, by a famous physicist I can't remember his name, the universe being called "The Horn of Plenty." There are constellations still named after ancient gods, planets still named after ancient gods.

Mr. All Knowing Expert telling me in no uncertain I'm a know nothing, tell where the center point of an infinite universe would be located! Infinity cannot possibly be observed and I observe it, in my mind's eye, to have a collapsed cosmological constant of distant nonlocal horizon, thus infinities of horizon universes / infinities of universe horizons. The principal of them all, the forever working base Planck Horizon microcosmically far down and in . . . and, at the same time, macrocosmically far up and out. A cosmologically physical constant of physical constants. Closed up into its infinite singularity, the big producer.

An immortal traveler travels away from the Milky Way at speed. He observes the MW behind him beginning to curve away from his line of travel, which he assumed to be arrow straight in expanding away, as it is backing away toward the distant so called Planck BB Horizon. He tries to keep it focused and centered to his rear. The curvature is growing tighter and ever tighter with his continuous powering, his continuous acceleration in the universe. He is in a vortex and being thrown out of what he thought was his universe into another universe. He has lost the Milky Way, both to the vortex and to the Milky Way's history line toward and into the Plank BB Horizon. He remains centered in the horizon. Always centered in Hawking's "Grand Central Station of the Universe" beneath that special clock. A lot of activity, many worlds of it, centered in and around Hawking's Grand Central Station, my trunk of my out branching roads, but roads ever returning to Rome in the center, tree.
 
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Atlan0001 said:
Describe accurately an infinite universe, a multiverse, and a big bang horizon since you are the all knowing expert on the physics and cosmology of universe and/or universes telling me off!.
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Make sure ask on a platform called "Physics forums" too, a few cosmologists on there.
 
Atlan0001 said:
... you are the all knowing expert on the physics and cosmology of universe and/or universes telling me off!.
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It doesn't take an all-knowing expert to see that your word salad is word salad.

You really need to need some books on relativity and cosmology to straighten out your thinking. It sounds like you're just making this all up off the top of your head.

Atlan0001 said:
tell where the center point of an infinite universe would be located!
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An infinite universe does not need a centre.

And while we're at it, a finite universe does not need a centre either.

You would know this is if you'd done a little studying.
 
Every point in an indistinguishably infinite / infinitesimal universe is dead center point! And, the two are in fact indistinguishably one and the same infinity (infinities) when shorted the local relativity of finite (finite always being nothing more nor less than local relative; infinity being the nonlocal absolute both within and without -- both inside and outside -- the local relativity of any and all finite (finites)).

The point! is infinite. Every point! of the indistinguishably infinite / infinitesimal universe . . . the infinity and infinities of universes . . . is infinite / infinitesimal, nonlocal absolute!

Just one of the things, points, that drove Einstein's good friend at Princeton, Kurt Godel, to curl up in a fetal position, having gone nuts. Such as the universe, and all the universes, in a point . . . and all the points outside.
 
Atlan0001 said:
Every point in an indistinguishably infinite / infinitesimal universe is dead center point!
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If that were true, the term would have no meaning. We'd need a new term to descibe what we mwan whaen we want to talk about the centre point of something.

Atlan0001 said:
And, the two are in fact indistinguishably one and the same infinity (infinities) when shorted the local relativity of finite (finite always being nothing more nor less than local relative; infinity being the nonlocal absolute both within and without -- both inside and outside -- the local relativity of any and all finite (finites)).
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You would do well to take some time to compose your thoughts. The profusion of intrusive sub-thoughts, which you put in brackets, indicates disjointed thought processes.

I don't know if this it is cognitive barrier or a language barrier or both, but if you are going to introduce personal concepts that you feel need explaining, get in the habit of doing so before you use them, not in the middle of using them.
 
Arthur Canon Doyle ('Sherlock Holmes: A Study in Scarlet'): "From a drop of water, a logician could infer the possibility of an Atlantic or a Niagara without having seen or heard of one or the other...."

Albert Einstein: "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...."
 
In an infinite Universe there will be mirror duplicate universes that could, just possibly, be traveled to. What most thinkers miss about travel between them (think what you might see in a hall of mirrors), is that the traveler will leave every single one of them at exactly the same time to travel to and arrive in some other mirror duplicated universe. All will leave at once out of the same frame duplicated to infinity in the mirror, all will arrive at once into the same frame duplicated to infinity. Thus, just one and one one only of us.

There is no time travel without space travel. No space travel without time travel. It really is spacetime travel. If superman with his supervision standing on the Moon spots a piano falling from a building a few floors up about to crash and crush a cat walking on the sidewalk, and he (superman) can cross the distance at infinite speed, he will still find the cat crushed by the piano and dead because the observation itself of the accident about to happen was far too late in getting to him. Even at infinite speeds he must travel concurrently existing future light-time histories across space rather than past histories which will always be only one photo-frame flat (only one photo-frame deep), the one in his eye.
 
Atlan0001 said:
In an infinite Universe there will be mirror duplicate universes that could, just possibly, be traveled to. What most thinkers miss about travel between them (think what you might see in a hall of mirrors), is that the traveler will leave every single one of them at exactly the same time to travel to and arrive in some other mirror duplicated universe. All will leave at once out of the same frame duplicated to infinity in the mirror, all will arrive at once into the same frame duplicated to infinity. Thus, just one and one one only of us.
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Terminology:

What you are talking about is observable universes. In a universe of infinite extent (of which, by definition, there is only one), there will be and infinite number of observable universes.

Combinations and Permutations:

You are missing the point of an infinity of universes.

For every universe out there that is identical to ours, there are uncountably more that are almost exactly the same but not quite - one atom out of place, etc. There's even more universe out there where 100 atoms are out of place. etc.

There are an uncountable number of observable universes where I flew off in my starship ten seconds later and arrived in the next universe ten seconds later.

There are an uncountable number of observable universes where I flew off in my starship ten minutes later and arrived in the next universe ten minutes later. etc.

There are an uncountable number of observable universes where I flew off in my starship ten years later and arrived in the next universe ten years later. etc.

It misses the point to concentrate on only the ones that happen to coincide.

Atlan0001 said:
There is no time travel without space travel.
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Muons experience time dilation during a trip from the top of the atmosphere and the bottom of the atmosphere. Does that count as "space travel"?


Atlan0001 said:
No space travel without time travel.
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There is also no "sitting stationary not going anywhere" without time travel either. Because we are always travelling through time. So it;s kind of a truism.


Atlan0001 said:
It really is spacetime travel. If superman with his supervision standing on the Moon spots a piano falling from a building a few floors up about to crash and crush a cat walking on the sidewalk, and he (superman) can cross the distance at infinite speed, he will still find the cat crushed by the piano and dead because the observation itself of the accident about to happen was far too late in getting to him.
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This is not necessarily true. The light from the falling piano takes a little more than one second to reach him. If it takes the piano 2 seconds to fall then he will arrive in plenty of time to save the cat.


Atlan0001 said:
Even at infinite speeds he must travel concurrently existing future light-time histories across space rather than past histories which will always be only one photo-frame flat (only one photo-frame deep), the one in his eye.
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This is word salad. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Superman sees the piano falling after a 1.25 second delay. If he flies home at "infinite speed" (which he can't, but whatever) he will arrive as soon as the piano started falling. It takes a finite length of time to fall. If that time is longer than 1.25 seconds, he will arrive in time to save the cat.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Terminology:

What you are talking about is observable universes. In a universe of infinite extent (of which, by definition, there is only one), there will be and infinite number of observable universes.

Combinations and Permutations:

You are missing the point of an infinity of universes.

For every universe out there that is identical to ours, there are uncountably more that are almost exactly the same but not quite - one atom out of place, etc. There's even more universe out there where 100 atoms are out of place. etc.

There are an uncountable number of observable universes where I flew off in my starship ten seconds later and arrived in the next universe ten seconds later.

There are an uncountable number of observable universes where I flew off in my starship ten minutes later and arrived in the next universe ten minutes later. etc.

There are an uncountable number of observable universes where I flew off in my starship ten years later and arrived in the next universe ten years later. etc.

It misses the point to concentrate on only the ones that happen to coincide.


Muons experience time dilation during a trip from the top of the atmosphere and the bottom of the atmosphere. Does that count as "space travel"?



There is also no "sitting stationary not going anywhere" without time travel either. Because we are always travelling through time. So it;s kind of a truism.



This is not necessarily true. The light from the falling piano takes a little more than one second to reach him. If it takes the piano 2 seconds to fall then he will arrive in plenty of time to save the cat.



This is word salad. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Superman sees the piano falling after a 1.25 second delay. If he flies home at "infinite speed" (which he can't, but whatever) he will arrive as soon as the piano started falling. It takes a finite length of time to fall. If that time is longer than 1.25 seconds, he will arrive in time to save the cat.
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Дэйв, если наша Вселенная бесконечна, то где находятся все остальные Вселенные, о которых вы пишите?
 
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