Classic Western Medicine

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by wanneszinnig, Nov 15, 2007.

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  1. Me-Ki-Gal Banned Banned

    That is freaky . I don't get sick , Maybe I got worms . I heard of people swollowing a tape worm embryo , or and egg . I first heard about it when I learned a few things about Marco Polo, then I brought it up to Gary and he talked about friends of his that did it too . Marco Pole wrote about killing his and noted that it was 8 ft. , Can you imagine that coming out of you. Creature from the black lagoon I tell ya
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Western medicine is actually just science-based medicine, it's not particularly western. Everything else is unproven medicine. Sweat out allergies? Come on dude, next they are going to say your yinyang is out of balance and you need to stand on one leg for an hour.
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  5. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Actually no, its MOVING towards evidence based but its not there yet. As i have posted previously take the drugs in a cardiac arest. Even the Australian ressu council whos job it is to set the guidelines based on the best evidence say clearly on there site that there is no or little evidence for the drugs used in Arests yet they recomend there use
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  7. trucetheeker Registered Member

    There's plenty of evidence that allopathic medicine is based on politically- or economically-based science. This isn't just the recurring nightmare of poorly tested drugs that get recalled after years of killing and maiming people. The industry has been caught red handed on numerous occasions ignoring unfavorable results during trials and denying responsibility when their drugs and treatments injure unsuspecting patients. This is not surprising considering that the testing is often paid for by the companies themselves. For their money, they expect to get the right results.

    There's also the stats that show how the whole $billion cancer treatment industry fails to score as high as a placebo even under their lax accounting rules. As an example, the average life expectancy of a man undergoing conventional treatment for prostate cancer is 5 years whereas the average life expectancy for prostate cancer victims who refuse treatment is 9 years. The former spends his 5 years undergoing varying radiation and chemotherapy treatments whilst the latter enjoys a better quality of life in their remaining years.

    All the other brands of allopathic medicine (referred to as alternative) have the same failing. They are all allopathic. They all believe that the sick body requires the application of some form of treatment, almost always a poison, whether it be the essence of a substance, a herbal concoction, a heavy dose of vitamins, a skillfully-inserted needle, the killing of a chicken, etc. They've all missed the point although some have come pretty damned close.

    If you want to make exceedingly good use of your scientific skills, then focus your attention on the one health system that is based on the actual physiology of the human body, correctly interpreted and observable by even the simplest of humans. It's referred to as Natural Hygiene (or Life Science) and it's been around for about 120 years. It's main principle is that the only thing that has the intelligence and ability to heal the body is the body itself. Sure a surgeon can set a broken bone or sew up severed tissue but only the body can knit bone or tissue together.

    All of the intelligence required to build a complete human in all its infinite complexity is contained in one fertilised ovum and included in that complexity is the ability to repair and maintain the organism. There is nothing that we can teach our bodies about how to keep us healthy and fit. All that we can do is provide it the optimum environment and fuel so that it can do its job.

    Instead we vainly presume that we know best and try to poison our bodies back into health. You've got a headache after drinking a fairly common poison - alcohol? Ok, let's administer a poison that will "fix" your headache say aspirin or acetaminophen/paracetamol. Don't worry about the affect this will have on your liver and other organs. There's a danger that you might get measles? Ok, let's inject some foreign bacteria and several dangerous chemicals directly into your bloodstream forcing your body to divert energy from normal maintenance and health to prevent these intruders from damaging your internal tissues and organs. Yeah, that'll help build strong bodies.

    Natural Hygiene is slowly gaining ground against the conventional medical industry despite the resources that the latter has thrown at it over the years. It threatens the very foundation of the medical industry because 1) it gets results and 2) because people who observe the requirements for health do not provide repeat business. The lucrative vaccination industry would die a death, the lucrative medical research industry would dry up, pharmaceutical companies would cease to exist including their supplement manufacturing kin.

    When people find out that they have to take responsibility for their health and stop looking for instant fixes in pill form, many will resist and insist on continuing down the path of illness. Those who heed the message quickly find out that eating and living healthy makes perfect sense and brings with it so many "extras" such as "no disease."

    Diabetics find themselves "cured" although in truth, they were never actually diabetic. Instead they were toxic due to their high-fat diet which prevented sugar from exiting their bloodstream for use by cells. Take away the cause and the body eventually rights itself. Doctors have known since the 1920's about the relation between diabetes and high-fat diets and numerous studies since then have confirmed it over and over again. That they choose to ignore it and just prescribe medicines speaks volumes!

    I suppose that I've said enough for the moment and will add some references at the bottom. If you wish to speak to Natural Hygienists who can share first-hand experience on the benefits of healthy living or the science behind it, please join our face book group Friends of Natural Hygiene as you're more than welcome. For more detailed reading, here's a link to TC Fry's Life Science Course.

    Yours truly,

    (PS: Please note that this name has no relation to the TruthSeeker user and I was using it on other forums long before realising or caring that anyone was using the latter name. It took me a while to notice that I'd mispelled my jumbled version but hey ho.)

    Related links:

    [Link between High-Fat Diet and Type 2 Diabetes]

    Link Between High-Fat Diet and Type 2 Diabetes Clarified ( (2011)

    The Relation Between Diabetes and Obesity ( (2010)

    Insulin Resistance and Type 2 Diabetes in High-Fat–Fed Mice Are Linked to High Glycotoxin Intake ( (2005)

    High-fat, low-carbohydrate diet and the etiology of non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus: the San Luis Valley Diabetes Study. (PubMed) (1991)

    [Validity of drug testing]

    AIDS DRUG RESEARCHERS SAY FIRM PRESSURED THEM By Richard Saltus, Boston Globe ( (2000)

    A Doctor's Drug Trials Turn Into Fraud (nytimes) (1999)

    [Validity of conventional medicine]
    The Great "HIV" Hoax by Patrick Rattigan ND
  8. leopold Valued Senior Member

    nice try but your body can't do anything about a thyroid that has run amok.
    as a matter of fact your body will eventually destroy itself trying to compensate.

    yes it will, by preventing you from getting measles.

    syphilis and polio are two diseases that are impossible to treat naturally.
    vaccinations prevent both.

    i am in the process of working on my bike so i really don't have time to slog through the rest of your post, but i'm positive it will have more erroneous information.

    to anyone who reads this, do not trust your health to just anyone.
    get a doctors opinion then find a different doctor and get theirs.
  9. trucetheeker Registered Member

    leopold99, it was nice of you to take time off from working on your bike to completely defeat my argument. It never occurred to me that all of my thinking was erroneous and all I really have to do is believe everything that physicians and the medical profession tell me. Nevermind that Iatrogenic (induced inadvertently by a physician or surgeon or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures ) deaths rank 3rd in the list of fatal diseases in the US.

    Personally, I think I'll just trust my body instead.

    By the way, your body can do something about a thyroid running amok but it will require you to remove the cause of the problem before it can work its magic. Taking drugs to alleviate the symptoms will only add to your problems.

    No it won't. Measles is just an outward symptom of the body trying to detoxify itself. The measles vaccine will weaken the body preventing it from performing the detoxification process that we interpret as measles.

    No they don't. Syphilis is what doctors say you have when they cannot label your symptoms more specifically. Polio is the result of severe poisoning most prominently by DDT but we cannot rule out other environmental factors. The fact that the rise and fall of polio follows very closely the rise and fall of DDT exposure and was well on its way out by the time the Salk vaccine came into use is difficult to ignore. The fact that post polio syndrome's appearance occurred in step with the introduction of DDT-derivatives is also hard to ignore.
    Pesticides And Polio
    Polio in the United States

    By erroneous, you mean it disagrees with the mainstream medical profession's kool-aid.

    If the doctor advises anything other than poison or surgery, report them to the medical association as they're going rogue!
  10. leopold Valued Senior Member

    and the source for this statement is?
    careful buddy, you are talking to someone that has first hand experience in this matter.
    other that getting my thyroid worked on "taking drugs" was he best thing i could have done.
    forget it, post reported for malicious bullshit.
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Ask any doctor how to avoid headaches after drinking and he will tell you "don't drink so much." Pretty simple, eh?

    Actually, it will, based on the number of people who die of measles.

    That's like saying that diet is gaining ground over exercise. Both, of course, are important - and people who say that one is an option to the other are idiots.
  12. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Syphilis is what doctors say you have when they find antibodies to this bacterium in your blood, spit, or tissue:

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    They can also use direct microscopy to find the spirochete.

    That was, like, the dumbest thing I've read in months...and I've read some pretty dumb crap.
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    Pseudoscientific nonsense, presented with zero supporting evidence (of course).

    More of the same.

    Polio existed long before DDT was even invented. Back to the drawing board on theory 3.

    Sounds like you've been sucking up some kool aid of your own from some kind of dodgy "alternative" practitioner(s).
  14. trucetheeker Registered Member

    Is US Health Really the Best in the World? Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH or read the full article at

    Are you saying that if you had your tonsils out, you'd be an expert on tonsils?

    Further, because neither you nor your physicians understood the human body, it was "best" to let them "work on" your thyroid and then give you drugs for it?

    The old adage is "Never discuss religion or politics." We should append that with "If you want a real fight, mess with people's belief in medicine!"

    Choose to ignore what I'm saying, if you wish but know that your body will adhere to the laws of nature whether or not you choose to.
  15. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Yeah, you get infected with something, you get sick.

    It's an "impurity" in your body-an invading virus or bacterium.

    Nosocomial infections, medication errors, lack of access to treatment...these are problems that can be dealt with, but they don't support your points at all. In fact, the fact that people die of infections means that their deaths are caused by pathogens, not "impurities".

    Somebody's blowing smudge stick smoke up your butt, dude.

    It's not that I'm against herbal medicine...if it works. But the white man's medicine has saved me multiple times-I'm sucking oxygen today due to antibiotics, bronchiodilators, and corticosteroids.

    I'm unnatural!

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  16. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    "Allopathic"??? Thanks for using a red-flag word that immediately identifies you as a crackpot! It will save a lot of people the trouble of having to slog through a couple of your posts in order to discover that they're wasting their time on woo-woo.

    "Allopathic" is a word used by the advocates of the discredited "homeopathic" system of medicine, because the two words are opposites. The former means "treatment by agents that cause conditions different from the disease," and the latter means "treatment by agents that cause the same conditions as the disease." There weren't any rocket scientists in the 19th century, but if there were, simply by looking at the words they could have quickly figured out which was the more promising type of treament.

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    In their defense, it's possible that the homeopaths had seen the success of vaccinations, which are the administration of organisms very similar to those causing the disease targeted for prevention (or weakened or dead ones), and reasoned that they could do the same thing for all illness. In any case, they were dead wrong, but their hypothesis attracted a lot of crackpots who continue--to this very day!--to insist that they will make you better by giving you more of what made you worse in the first place.

    During that 19th century debate, the homeopaths appropriated the word "allopathic" and made it an insult to what eventually turned out to be stunningly successful modern scientific medicine. Anyone who throws it around in the 21st century is tipping his hand and showing you that he aligns with the crackpots.
    While some of your assertions are true, they have been taken out of context and blown out of proportion. The fact remains that modern scientific medicine has:
    • Reduced infant mortality from around 80% to such a low rate in the western nations that it's barely measurable. Of course in the Third World it caused a population explosion, but hey the Rule of Unintended Consequences warned us that "You can never do just one thing."
    • Eradicated smallpox, a scourge during my parents' childhood.
    • Eradicated poliomyelitis, a scourge during my own childhood.
    • Turned influenza from a lethal epidemic into one week of sick leave.
    • Turned tuberculosis, diabetes and many other debilitating or lethal conditions into manageable ones.
    • Saved people from heart disease.
    • Replaced shattered knees and pelvises, reattached nerves, transplanted organs from people who didn't need them any more, and in many other ways turned invalids into fairly normal, healthy people.
    For all its faults it simply has a better track record than the various forms of voodoo. Success in science is always incremental.
    It sounds like your complaint is really about modern post-industrial capitalism, not science itself. Give the Post-Industrial Era a couple of generations more to work out its kinks. Every Paradigm Shift takes a lot of collateral damage. I doubt that anyone reading this would prefer living before the Industrial Revolution (except those who assume they would be aristocrats, forgetting that more than 99% of the population were illiterate subsistence farmers), but we all recognize that life during the early days of the Industrial Revolution was pretty much the way Dickens described it. As the Chinese curse goes, "May you live during interesting times!"
    Have you corrected for other variables? These days, those who seek treatment are the ones who have already had it for a few years and/or whose cancers are more aggressive. My own doctor tells me that life expectancy from the first appearance of prostate cancer in a PSA test is more like fifteen years. I stopped getting the test at 65, on the reasonable assumption that I'd more likely die from something else before my 80th birthday. Many men have never been tested so by the time the symptoms become obvious they've had it for seven or eight years already.
    That is utter horse puckey. Modern medicine is extending into corners of the world where it was unknown fifty years ago. Thirty years ago, "health food" stores in the USA had a little counter with homeopathic "medicines." Those have disappeared.
    This is hardly limited to the health arena. Americans want somebody else to take responsibility for everything
    He knows that. He appears to be reasonably well educated. He has an agenda and he won't let the truth get in the way.
    You've been spending too much time on SciForums.

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  17. trucetheeker Registered Member

    Constantly repeating the religious mantra doesn't make it true. Most people believing that it's true doesn't make it true.

    It's a bit like the blind man trying to identify an elephant. You see someone with "pneumonia" symptoms who tests positive for pneumococcus and decide that they are under attack by this bacteria. It obviously will never occur to you that both the symptoms and the bacteria are part of the detoxification process.

    Left to itself, the body will eliminate the toxic load and bring the body back into homeostasis. If the elimination process is defeated by physicians interfering with drugs, ice packs and confinement to a poorly ventilated room then the toxic load will probably grow eventually overwhelming the body's defenses resulting in organ failure and death.

    Fortunately the human body is a tough organism to kill and even with the best that medical science has to offer, it will often pull through. But each time it has to fight it's way out, a bit more vitality is drained from the reservoir. There's always a cost to these things.

    NOPE! I haven't had that pleasure for a long while!

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    I am completely against herbal medicine. Eating a naturally-occurring poison is just as bad for the body as swallowing a synthetic one. I am also against homeopathy and any other allopathic treatment system.

    Perhaps a better understanding of Natural Hygiene would have prevented you reaching the stage where you needed saving by antibiotics, bronchiodilators, and corticosteroids.

    Anyway, I'm not here to change anybody's mind. I was merely responding to the theme of the resurrected OP. However, it will be a shame if none of you take the time to learn about Natural Hygiene.
  18. leopold Valued Senior Member

    thanks for the source.
    you seem to have forgotten to mention the results were mostly obtained from already hospitalized patients.
    in other words they were already sick and apparently required hospitalization.
    where did i say i was an expert on thyroids?
    real dumbasses those doctors.
    i had to take medications to counteract what my thyroid was doing to me.
    after the "surgery" i no longer need that medication.
    bonifide quacks i tell ya.
    i don't think anyone will deny a good diet and exercise is important.
    but for you to insinuate medicine is bad is not correct.

    oh yeah, i forgot to mention the following:
    your link suggests that most of your statistics come from people with no primary health care.
    your link states that universal primary health care is one solution.
  19. trucetheeker Registered Member

    Natural Hygiene is a big subject and from my supplied reference, it might take a while to get to this list:

    The nineteen factor elements for optimal well-being are listed as follows:

    Pure air
    Pure water
    Cleanliness—both internal and external
    Temperature maintenance
    Pure wholesome food to which we are biologically adapted
    Exercise and activity
    Sunshine upon our bodies
    Rest and relaxation
    Play and recreation
    Emotional poise
    Security of life and its means
    Pleasant environment
    Creative, useful work
    Expression of the natural instincts
    Indulgence of aesthetic senses.

    These are all considered to be equally important even though some might have a bigger impact over the short term. As you can see, Exercise and diet (wholesome food) get fairly equal billing.
  20. trucetheeker Registered Member

    According to your reference, you can have the bacteria but not the disease.

    "Latent syphilis is defined as having serologic proof of infection without symptoms of disease."

    What did Koch have to say about that?
  21. trucetheeker Registered Member

    I answered with the same level of supporting evidence as the naysayer leopold99 knowing full well that someone would complain about my lack of evidence.

    Oh and look! You provided so much evidence to support your position!

    In any event, neither my reference nor I claimed that DDT invented Polio.
  22. Hesperado Don't immanentize the eschaton Registered Senior Member

    For the most part, I tend to agree. I would add that Western medicine tends to be inadequate with regard to a crucial aspect of maintaining health: preventative medicine.

    I would wager to say that if much of the money currently directed toward treating people after the fact were re-directed to various preventative measures, much money would be saved. Unfortunately, the current paradigm that generates lots of money for the health care industry is geared toward a system that does not accomodate preventative measures. Thus, a re-structuring economically along these lines would ruffle feathers on an administrative and subcultural level that has little to do with Reason and Science, per se.

    And, one important ingredient of preventative medicine which is also largely neglected (if not positively denigrated) by Western medicine is palliative medicine -- which means, to put it loosely and colloquially, making the individual feel better in various pleasure-oriented soothing ways.

    Palliative medicine is also useful after a person becomes injured or ill -- indeed, it can have a powerful psychological effect of alleviating the pain and/or distress and thus helps to orient the body back towards healing itself; since the impairment (for one reason or another) of the natural process of a body's self-healing is precisely the definition of disease.
  23. leopold Valued Senior Member

    this in no way states medicine is bad for you.
    on the other hand any and all of the above will not prevent you from contracting infectious diseases.
    i believe i stated the same in my last post.
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