Christians please explain the eating of pork

[786]

We all know that pork is unlawful in the Jewish law. Yet the Christians do eat it..

There are 2 general arguments I have heard to justify this behavior:

1. We are not under the law (the curse has been lifted :shrug: )
2. Jesus stated 'everything is lawful unto you' (he was referring to food in the context)

To me I see both of these to be inter-related...

The law is lifted because it was 'fulfilled' (i personally disagree with how Christians understand this word but oh well).

According to Christian belief 'all was fulfilled' when Christ was crucified. So PRIOR to this point the law was still in effect.

The statement 'everything is lawful unto you' was said BEFORE the crucification- but this is supposedly when everything (including pork) was legalized.

But Jesus had said that anyone who breaks OR teaches against the old law (which he came to re-affirm) would be called upon by God for doing so.....

So I see both of those arguments fail in this, as it leads to these problems:

1. Jesus breaking the law (by teaching everything is lawful even though pork was unlawful)
2. Number 1 leads to the law not being 'fulfilled'
3. Which leads to the curse of the law not being take away (as its not fulfilled)
4. Which leads to Christians still being under the law
5. And that law prohibits pork.

Now question: Explain to me how you justify you eating pork from the biblical texts without having Jesus break the law and cause a cascade of other problems which I just listed above.

I'm not saying there is a contradiction or anything, I personally believe the Christians have the wrong belief (interpretation) about the Bible. But those of you who do argue for the 2 points (I mentioned in the beginning), explain yourself please.

Peace be unto you

 

[quadraphonics]

Is there some variation of Godwin's Law that applies to threads with titles like "Hey <identity group>, explain yourself dammit!"

If not, there should be.

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

it was a set up . Yeah so the apostles could covert different people to the new religion . See the trick to go hang out with different folks and teach em the new way of Christ Worship . So in order to do this thay had to be able to eat what ever shit was put in front of them . See later Paul the Jewish Traitor told them they could eat what ever they want if that is what your host is eating . Then He went on to say " If it offends that person don't eat it . It was all about eating what they eat and not bitching and complaining . You see why don't you . If you bitch and complain they are not going to follow your new religion . That drives people away when you do that . So like when they would go hang out with Germans , Well pig is on the menu . See now if the German was truly converted and they were around a Muslim . They would not eat pig cause it is offensive so in this did the holy German eating pig in front of a Muslim brake the law ? Yes , but not for eating Pig , but for offending the Muslim. The reason is the 2 laws still in effect in the new religion. Those laws are as follows . 1 Love God , That would be you loving Me , Stryder and Spidey Goat . 2 Love all the humans.
O.K. get it ? It is wrong for a Christian to eat pork in fornt of a Muslim . Kind of like not smoking in front of your parents when you are under 18 now a days . Heavebs that do what they want like Me . We do what we want cause were free to do what we want . If it is beneficial it don't matter . We are subject to do what we must do as to do what we must do , in order to do what we must do . I got to do what I got to do

 

[Mind Over Matter]

From Catholic viewpoint, the Old Law was fulfilled by Jesus. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains, “The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment.” (CCC 2053).

For example, rediscovery of the dietary law (including eating pork), is explained: “Jesus perfects the dietary law, so important in Jewish daily life, by revealing its pedagogical meaning through a divine interpretation: ‘Whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him . . .’ (Thus he declared all foods clean.) What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts. . . ." (CCC 582)

 

[786]

The above 3 posts explain why I don't create inter-faith threads anymore, a concern brought by that other thread...

Now stop your trolling if you don't mind. I'll report you all if any of this crap continues.

 

[786]

From Catholic viewpoint, the Old Law was fulfilled by Jesus. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains, “The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment.” (CCC 2053).

For example, rediscovery of the dietary law (including eating pork), is explained: “Jesus perfects the dietary law, so important in Jewish daily life, by revealing its pedagogical meaning through a divine interpretation: ‘Whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him . . .’ (Thus he declared all foods clean.) What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts. . . ." (CCC 582)

I already 'challenged' the fulfillment part in my OP, so at least address it rather than repeat what I already know.

As for the nothing defiles you... The context starts from beginning of the chapter...

Pharisees talk about WASHING OF HANDS. So the 'uncleanliness' was about the 'dirty hands' essentially, not about the 'nature of unclean'. That is the pig is said to be unclean by the law- this type of 'unclean' is different than being unclean because of not washing your hands.

Mark 7 and Matthew 15 begin with the same story.

Check out Matt 15:16-20:

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

He isn't saying anything about the 'unclean' as in the nature of stuff made to be by God in the law. He's talking about 'dirty hands'.

This is a classic example of Christians not looking at the context and understanding the wording out-of-context. And even if for the sake of argument I accept this out-of-context interpretation, it still creates multiple problems as I listed in my OP, one would be Jesus breaking the law by teaching this.

Peace be unto you

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

you see I was not trolling . See you forget the passages that say they will drink poison and eat ( something i forget take poison ? ) and no harm will come to them . That in the same spirit as eating what is offered to you by your host . Meaning you can eat what they serve as Not To Offend them ,

O.K. lets talk about some of the other forbiddin fruits as pig is just one unclean animal in the old Law , Cat Fish is unclean cause it has no scales . Is this any diferent than Pig ? How about Rabbit? Rabbit is an unclean animal too . Can't eat no rabbit . Crustacean like Lobster and Crab . No No touchy just as bad as pig . There are many many more unclean foods . Why is it you focus just on Pig . There are also a boat load of other laws that are ritualistic in nature that are in old law . Go take a look at all the laws Moses imposed.

It must have been me God Crack that up set you . Sorry .

 

[superstring01]

As Christianity explains it:

Jesus stated that the old covenant with Jehovah and his "chosen people" was over. There were no more Orthopraxic rules, no rituals, no movements. The only thing, Christ said, that mattered was the relationship between Christ and his followers. The covenant existed with the Jews existed solely to prepare the way for the son of God. The various rituals and peculiarities existed not just for specific reasons, but to set the Jews apart. To make the different and to incur the wrath of the fellow human beings. This wrath further re-inforced the "difference" and preserved the Jews as a messenger group of the coming of the son of God. It also forced the Jews to constantly re-evaluate who they were and what they stood for.

The forbidding of Pork, the washing of hands at the Sadr, the rules on intercourse, the physical movement of the body during prayer and the ritual slaughter of animals in atonement of sins were all done to create specific identity group, apart from all other men, who would herald and glorify the son of God. Once Christ had been born and once the Jews had failed in their mission to that end, the covenant was (doubly) no longer required. Christ established a new Covenant with his followers based on few rules and no ritual as rituals both dumbed down the masses and created a gulf between people and Chris.

Islam just copied off the various parts of Judaism that it liked, incorporated Arab mysticism, moon and rock (Kaaba) worship. All religions do this, just that Islam did it even more obviously than most.

More recently, Mormonism picked-and-chose in much the same way from the things it liked and dispensed with the rest.

In the end, all religions are beyond wacky in their various rules and regulations, not the least of which, are on matters that really have no bearing on a deity or his/her worship.

~String

 

[superstring01]

I already 'challenged' the fulfillment part in my OP, so at least address it rather than repeat what I already know.

As for the nothing defiles you... The context starts from beginning of the chapter...

Pharisees talk about WASHING OF HANDS. So the 'uncleanliness' was about the 'dirty hands' essentially, not about the 'nature of unclean'. That is the pig is said to be unclean by the law- this type of 'unclean' is different than being unclean because of not washing your hands.

Mark 7 and Matthew 15 begin with the same story.

Check out Matt 15:16-20:

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

He isn't saying anything about the 'unclean' as in the nature of stuff made to be by God in the law. He's talking about 'dirty hands'.

This is a classic example of Christians not looking at the context and understanding the wording out-of-context. And even if for the sake of argument I accept this out-of-context interpretation, it still creates multiple problems as I listed in my OP, one would be Jesus breaking the law by teaching this.

Peace be unto you

So, you, a Muslim with know knowledge of Christianity are going to lecture a bunch of Christians about how they should worship. How tolerant of you.

~String

 

[786]

Why the hell are you guys even here. And then some ppl wonder why there aren't many inter-theist discussions here.

Copying and pasting, or making your own screwed up points does not equal answering the question under the scope of discussion. Are you folks just that idiotic?

I know what you think about theists and religions- keep that crap to yourself, or open a thread of yourself...

For some reason you atheists can't stop trolling.

Peace be unto you

 

[786]

So, you, a Muslim with know knowledge of Christianity are going to lecture a bunch of Christians about how they should worship. How tolerant of you.

~String

Were you contributing to the discussion? I never knew this discussion was about tolerance.. Keep your one-liner nonsense to yourself because you're all just trolling

 

[superstring01]

No. Actually, I was pointing out a typical bit of nonsense coming from religious whack-nuts like yourself who operate from the notion that your religion gives you both a platform and the right to lecture others on how they should believe. I see that--when it comes to discussions--you, a Muslim, only like the ones where you get to criticize others. Typically Muslim.

Here's a clue, sir, if you don't like it here, then go away. No one will chase you down or beg you to come back. The real troll here is you, hoping to utilize this thread as another opportunity to tell the world about your faith and how they should love it.

Also note: I answered the OP.

~String

 

[arauca]

Now question: Explain to me how you justify you eating pork from the biblical texts.

I'm not saying there is a contradiction or anything, I personally believe the Christians have the wrong belief (interpretation) about the Bible. But those of you who do argue for the 2 points (I mentioned in the beginning), explain yourself please.

Peace be unto you [/QUOTE]



I don't know If it was Moses or God come out with 613 commandments , but I will believe more that was Moses.
As for me as a Christian . the 10 commandments are the important . Because is the relationship Man to his Creator and the relationship man to man. The thing about pork or many other rituals , those are for keeping people under control in the same religion , In other words you belong to this club or you belong to the other club./

 

[786]

No. Actually, I was pointing out a typical bit of nonsense coming from religious whack-nuts like yourself who operate from the notion that your religion gives you both a platform and the right to lecture others on how they should believe. I see that--when it comes to discussions--you, a Muslim, only like the ones where you get to criticize others. Typically Muslim.

Still trolling?

Here's a clue, sir, if you don't like it here, then go away. No one will chase you down or beg you to come back. The real troll here is you, hoping to utilize this thread as another opportunity to tell the world about your faith and how they should love it.

First of all, if you don't like forum rules, then you should be the one to leave.

Secondly, most of the threads here are to 'further ones opinion'- now if you don't mind, please act at least a little intelligent even if you lack intelligence. You're atheist after-all; excepted more 'intelligence' from an atheist.

Also note: I answered the OP.

~String

Note: You didn't.. In all of that nonsense you posted I didn't see a single passage from the bible-

Perhaps you didn't read the OP:

Now question: Explain to me how you justify you eating pork from the biblical texts.

Peace be unto you

 

[786]

I don't know If it was Moses or God come out with 613 commandments , but I will believe more that was Moses.

So you don't believe the Bible is God's word?

Lev 11:1
And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

.... continues

11:7-8
And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you

So it seems its God (Lord?) saying that this is the law. According to Christ, the law of Moses 'not a jot shall pass unless all is fulfilled'.. And whether you care about all of it or not is irrelevant because Jesus himself said that anyone who breaks 'least' of the law or teaches against it will be questioned.... So are you telling me that YOU just don't give a crap about it- or do you plan to support your belief with your scripture or at least Jesus? Or do you not accept Jesus's words himself about the importance of law? Are you following your own religion or are you following what Christ told you?

Peace be unto you

 

[superstring01]

Bullshit, look at the title of the thread "Christians please explain. . . " as if one is owed to you.

And I gave you an explanation based upon the Christian philosophy. Here are passages from the bible:

"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this. Jesus declared all foods "clean.") Mark 7:18-20 NIV

He said to them, "Then do you also fail to understand? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile, since it enters not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) Mark 7:18-20 NRSV​

You, trying to "redefine" the passage as talking about "washing hands" is your interpretation, one of a Muslim who's trying to force his worldview on everybody else.

~String

 

[superstring01]

So it seems its God (Lord?) saying that this is the law. According to Christ, the law of Moses 'not a jot shall pass unless all is fulfilled'.. And whether you care about all of it or not is irrelevant because Jesus himself said that anyone who breaks 'least' of the law or teaches against it will be questioned.... So are you telling me that YOU just don't give a crap about it- or do you plan to support your belief with your scripture or at least Jesus? Or do you not accept Jesus's words himself about the importance of law? Are you following your own religion or are you following what Christ told you?

This is exactly what I'm taking about. You're lecturing. Not asking. As usual, you're operating from the notion first and finding information to support it, second.

~String

 

[786]

Bullshit, look at the title of the thread "Christians please explain. . . " as if one is owed to you.

And I gave you an explanation based upon the Christian philosophy. Here are passages from the bible:

"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this. Jesus declared all foods "clean.") Mark 7:18-20 NIV

He said to them, "Then do you also fail to understand? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile, since it enters not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) Mark 7:18-20 NRSV​

~String

Thanks for repeating the verse provided by Mind over Matter- and thank for not reading my response. And thanks for not approaching the problems that result from this as I stated in the OP..

and now thanks for staying out

Peace be unto you

 

[superstring01]

Sorry, 786. Not going to "stay out". I have all night. I'm on vacation.

You're a liar. You're not here to attempt to understand, you're here to preach your view to everybody else.

And, in your stupidity, you attempted to "reinterpret" the bible to suit your own means.

Where, specifically, in the bible does it say that Jesus was only talking about hand-washing and not about food in general?

As I said, the new covenant (and you could do some reading on it if you want) broke the old laws and replaced it totally. I already said this and you just ignored it because it didn't give you the answer that you want and the only answer you'll except is: Christianity is wrong. Pork is forbidden. Muslims win.

~String

 

[786]

This is exactly what I'm taking about. You're lecturing. Not asking. As usual, you're operating from the notion first and finding information to support it, second.

~String

It turns out that I'm asking- but since the guy provides no biblical text- it sounds lecturing- maybe because by perception my argument is stronger than his since he provides no scripture to support his argument....

Most people believe that 'belief' should be stated in scripture- which is what I'm asking.

Stay the hell out if you can't stand rationale debate. Because to me you just want people to spout their belief and turn this into a preaching session rather than an intellectual discussion supported by reasonable evidence.

Peace be unto you