China, the worlds most evil country

[Tyler]

I'm not going to read this whole thread, but just a note...

(1) China has been well praised in many ways in Western media. To say otherwise is simply to admit you don't read the news. The latest example is how well China has handled the earthquake.

(2) America is regularly bashed in Chinese media. To say otherwise is simply to admit you don't read Chinese news.

(3) retaxis... I think the main complaint coming from Western sources is that China supports and aids genocides. This, to us, is a horrid lack of morality. When our own governments do it, many of us feel equally repulsed and protest. The shocking difference to many Westerners is that Chinese people simply couldn't give a shit. If supporting the murder of 300,000 innocent Sudanese is what it takes to make their country richer, they're all for it. Hell, if oppressing the 500 million farmers of Anhui, Sichuan and other provinces is what it takes to make city dwellers rich, the city folk have no problem letting the farmers rot and die in conditions often worse than pre-revolutionary days.

But you make an important point. The Chinese have a much higher tolerance for corruption, authority and oppression than do western nations. They expect it and do not see it as anything other than part of day-to-day life. My colleague put it bluntly: "Do you know why it was so easy for the tiny nation of Japan to take control of so much of China? Because we didn't notice a difference. It was just exchanging one corrupt demi-god for another corrupt demi-god."

(4) diray... Visiting the government-approved areas of Tibet will teach you very little about day to day life for most Tibetans. There is a reason they pick those spots. Now, if you happen to bike into the province without a government guide and wander around on your own... Or, for that matter, talk to the large ethnic Tibetan populations outside the official province (in Yunnan, Sichuan, Xinjiang, etc.), you may get a much more open picture.

(5) In my experience the young Taiwanese like Chinese money. They don't care too much about their flag, it's just a matter of if they can make more money by returning. Of course, they wouldn't agree to anything less than a Hong Kong like arrangement because they desire the freedom and modernity. But it's not nationalism holding back any re-unification. Of course there are tons of exceptions either way, this is just a trend I've noticed.


By the by, I live in China. And yes, I've been out west.

 

[Tyler]

To the Chinese on this board...

Your guys have seriously screwed up the response to the recent protests and attention directed at China.

The modern world is one where everyone watches everyone to make sure that we are all being good people. I am Canadian and if my government does something awful I invite, expect and desire you to speak out against it. My desire for a good and peaceful world is much stronger than my need for Canada to look good. This is not true in China right now. The people are much more concerned with silence than they are with open exchange of ideas. The Chinese people, in general, would prefer the world to shut up and never again mention bad things their country does. That the Chinese government prefers this is expected - I'm sure the Canadian government would like our media and people to shut up about it's problems. But that the Chinese populace has decided en masse that outsiders have no reason to speak about their country except in praise is either stupid or evil. If your country is doing terrible things, don't you want others to speak up?? After much thought I now believe that it is simply a matter of fierce nationalism present in many Asian countries (and in religious parts of other nations as well - cough, cough, America). The Chinese people (in general) are so nationalistic that even if their government was caught slaughtering villages of babies for fun, they would be angry at outsiders for speaking out against it.

China itself called these Olympics an opportunity for the world to see how modern it was. You guys don't get it. Seeing high-rise buildings and fancy hotels in Beijing is not going to make us think you're a modern culture. It will just make us think you're rich. Most of us have long since realized that, counter to what Deng Xiaoping said, to be rich is not glorious. To be good is.

So, instead of China coming off as a modern nation, these Olympics will show China is anything but. The people and government support ignorance and political silence in the face of genocide. This is much more important to Western viewers than whatever fancy hotels and discotheques the tourists will go to in August.

Besides, are you guys really so unaware? This is the question I've been asking myself since this whole mess started. Did you really think there would be no protests along the torch route? Do you not know that every major nation faces protests? Therefore knowing that it's part of what makes a country 'modern'? Do you actually think one of the largest superpowers in history is not going to face scrutiny? Do you think harsh words from your authoritarian government are going to in any way deter the protesters?


Again, for the record, I live in China.

 

[Tyler]

Oh, and before some "well-educated" Chinese citizens spews the party line of "Chinese people simply don't believe in interfering in the sovereignty of other nations. We stay out of your internal affairs, you stay out of ours....."

Fine, I'll stay out of your internal affairs. But you know selling weapons to genocide-committing governments (Burma, Sudan, North Korea) is not exactly "respecting national borders". In fact, it is respecting the wills of evil men and murderers and not respecting the will of the people.

Again, that so many Chinese are able to buy this crap argument is probably due to their long history of believing in authoritarian demi-gods. Even if 99% of Burmese hate General Shwe from the bottom of their hearts, the Chinese could still be convinced that he is the rightful ruler of Miandian (Myanmar in Chinese, for our Western readers).

 

[Zephyr]

I tend to be biased against authoritarianism myself, but I have heard people say that it's one of the reasons China has developed so rapidly and life has improved for so many Chinese people. Totalitarian regimes can be much more efficient than democratic ones. Of course that efficiency can be a double edged sword when it leads to something like the Great Sparrow Campaign.

BTW, Tyler, I hope you know to what extent your free speech is or is not protected in China. You don't want to be arrested for posting here. Do you use TOR?

 

[Tyler]

I would be more worried about being denied a visa renewal than being arrested for such a minor offense. But yes, I do know the risks involved.

 

[COPE2]

america is the most evil. theres no doubt about it. america got rich from wars. to put it simple, america profited off of other peoples misery. it spends over $700 billion pa on military. thats right, $700 billion a year, blowing people up and killing people. no other country spends more. the next top 10 countries combine would not be as much as usa. america is so desprate to cause destruction that it will frame another country for having wmd, just so they can invade it for oil. then when there were no wmd's found, there was no apology, reparation. and get this.... america refuses to leave, and has no plan to do so. we all know about the dodgy actions of america during the viet nam war (1 million killed in the hands of u.s. soldiers), 1 million killed in korea, 1 million killed in iraq. these are conservative figures. none of these countries have done anything to provoke the usa, in addition to of course america's support towards israel to kill palestinians which had been mentioned by other posters, but id like to discuss some lesser known evils of the usa. we know the usa likes to go into other countries and abuse others, but america also finds it hard to resist abusing its own citizens. i found a video documenting americas abuse of its own prisoners. america, by the way, has the largest prison population in the world, with over 2 million people locked up. america is also one of the only countries in the world to hand out death sentences to children. if that isnt shocking enough, i have found another video of american soldiers abusing random afgans, including senior citizens. i think what is most disturbing is how americans find joy out of other peoples misery. to them it is almost like a game. i guess that is what makes them the most evil. i have here another video involving an american soldier who talks openly about raping arab girls, which i would imagine happens quite often, but you know the "liberal media", theyre always avoiding these unpatriotic subjects. the final video i found is a video of how america, in general goes into other countries and causes uproar, including overthrowing governments, assassinating leaders, forcing them to open a free market, training terorists, staging coups, and a variety of other things. americans are too brainwashed into their patriotism that they are unable to see what they have done wrong. american greed also makes americans justify their evilness. so as long as theyre getting a piece of the pie, who cares who gets hurt in the process. since im unable to post links in this forum, i will put a link on my profile under contact info.

 

[chris4355]

sigh.

america is the most evil. theres no doubt about it. america got rich from wars. to put it simple, america profited off of other peoples misery. it spends over $700 billion pa on military. thats right, $700 billion a year, blowing people up and killing people. no other country spends more.

the next top 10 countries combine would not be as much as usa. america is so desprate to cause destruction that it will frame another country for having wmd, just so they can invade it for oil. then when there were no wmd's found, there was no apology, reparation. and get this.... america refuses to leave, and has no plan to do so.

we all know about the dodgy actions of america during the viet nam war (1 million killed in the hands of u.s. soldiers), 1 million killed in korea, 1 million killed in iraq. these are conservative figures. none of these countries have done anything to provoke the usa, in addition to of course america's support towards israel to kill palestinians which had been mentioned by other posters, but id like to discuss some lesser known evils of the usa.

we know the usa likes to go into other countries and abuse others, but america also finds it hard to resist abusing its own citizens.

i found a video documenting americas abuse of its own prisoners. america, by the way, has the largest prison population in the world, with over 2 million people locked up. america is also one of the only countries in the world to hand out death sentences to children. if that isnt shocking enough, i have found another video of american soldiers abusing random afgans, including senior citizens.

i think what is most disturbing is how americans find joy out of other peoples misery. to them it is almost like a game. i guess that is what makes them the most evil. i have here another video involving an american soldier who talks openly about raping arab girls, which i would imagine happens quite often, but you know the "liberal media", theyre always avoiding these unpatriotic subjects. the final video i found is a video of how america, in general goes into other countries and causes uproar, including overthrowing governments, assassinating leaders, forcing them to open a free market, training terorists, staging coups, and a variety of other things.

americans are too brainwashed into their patriotism that they are unable to see what they have done wrong. american greed also makes americans justify their evilness.

so as long as theyre getting a piece of the pie, who cares who gets hurt in the process. since im unable to post links in this forum, i will put the links on my profile.

 

[Facial]

Why can't they just have their freedom?

Tibetan-Chinese are are already very free. Most of their courts, laws, road signs, education, etc. are communicated in Tibetan. If you are talking about independence ask the native Americans, most of whom forgot their native language and have been virtually assimilated.

 

[Facial]

To the Chinese on this board...

Your guys have seriously screwed up the response to the recent protests and attention directed at China.

The modern world is one where everyone watches everyone to make sure that we are all being good people. I am Canadian and if my government does something awful I invite, expect and desire you to speak out against it. My desire for a good and peaceful world is much stronger than my need for Canada to look good. This is not true in China right now. The people are much more concerned with silence than they are with open exchange of ideas. The Chinese people, in general, would prefer the world to shut up and never again mention bad things their country does. That the Chinese government prefers this is expected - I'm sure the Canadian government would like our media and people to shut up about it's problems. But that the Chinese populace has decided en masse that outsiders have no reason to speak about their country except in praise is either stupid or evil. If your country is doing terrible things, don't you want others to speak up?? After much thought I now believe that it is simply a matter of fierce nationalism present in many Asian countries (and in religious parts of other nations as well - cough, cough, America). The Chinese people (in general) are so nationalistic that even if their government was caught slaughtering villages of babies for fun, they would be angry at outsiders for speaking out against it.

China itself called these Olympics an opportunity for the world to see how modern it was. You guys don't get it. Seeing high-rise buildings and fancy hotels in Beijing is not going to make us think you're a modern culture. It will just make us think you're rich. Most of us have long since realized that, counter to what Deng Xiaoping said, to be rich is not glorious. To be good is.

So, instead of China coming off as a modern nation, these Olympics will show China is anything but. The people and government support ignorance and political silence in the face of genocide. This is much more important to Western viewers than whatever fancy hotels and discotheques the tourists will go to in August.

Besides, are you guys really so unaware? This is the question I've been asking myself since this whole mess started. Did you really think there would be no protests along the torch route? Do you not know that every major nation faces protests? Therefore knowing that it's part of what makes a country 'modern'? Do you actually think one of the largest superpowers in history is not going to face scrutiny? Do you think harsh words from your authoritarian government are going to in any way deter the protesters?


Again, for the record, I live in China.

What makes a country Western is its right to protest. But China is a modern country, and generally stifles protest.

So, the right to protest is not a requirement for a modern country.

The Confucian tradition is actually very well and alive in China. In a nutshell, you respect your elders unconditionally. Despite all of the controversial and errors in the government, most people still believe that the government will achieve better results in the future and hence, no need to criticise. Just support the government as you would support your parents.

If your parents whip you, starve you, torture you, then you must still respect them no matter what. That's my cultural understanding as a Han Chinese.

 

[GeoffP]

Tibetan-Chinese are are already very free. Most of their courts, laws, road signs, education, etc. are communicated in Tibetan. If you are talking about independence ask the native Americans, most of whom forgot their native language and have been virtually assimilated.

And they have free self-determination? No. So, save the tu quoque.