China and Bumper Planes...
- Thread starter Bowser
- Start date
I'd like to remind someone that Congress was the primary governmental organization that had to approve the favored nation status. Besides, the current administration has never had a better reason to revoke the status from China. Do you seriously believe that the worshippers of capitalism currently at the head of our country would do something like that?
Personally, I always thought that hooking up with China in this way is a mistake. If we needed massive cheap labor, we should've gone to India instead; at least they TRY to emulate our country. The "policy of engagement" is fine, but becoming outright dependent on China is stupid, stupid, stupid.
Personally, I always thought that hooking up with China in this way is a mistake. If we needed massive cheap labor, we should've gone to India instead; at least they TRY to emulate our country. The "policy of engagement" is fine, but becoming outright dependent on China is stupid, stupid, stupid.
I won't blaim Brush for the economy, but I certainly blaim Wood for the current energy prices in California. Of course, it wouldn't fit Shrub's religious belief that federal government is not there to manage interstate commerce -- otherwise a reasonable thing would have been to place PRICE CAPS on electricity months ago. Godot knows, he was asked, no, BEGGED to do it. Guess which state drives the U.S. economy in the information age? Ever heard of silicon valley? It is DUMB and IRRESPONSIBLE to allow California to come under such an energy crisis; the repercussions will be felt across the country.
And as for cheap Indian labor, there's nothing to apologize for or hurt sensitivities with. That's <u>exactly</u> how our country <b>USED</b> the Chinese, the Indonesians, the Koreans, the Philippinos, the Mexicans -- and it's no secret. Do you really think they don't know that they are being horribly underpaid compared to what similar laborers would earn in U.S.? Heck, there's nothing wrong with exploitation of foreigners -- our economy loves it! Isn't that so? Oh, wait, I forgot the prime moral justification: without our investment, they wouldn't even so much as have what little they have. True, absolutely true. But it doesn't detract from the fact that they are being <b>exploited</b>.
And as for cheap Indian labor, there's nothing to apologize for or hurt sensitivities with. That's <u>exactly</u> how our country <b>USED</b> the Chinese, the Indonesians, the Koreans, the Philippinos, the Mexicans -- and it's no secret. Do you really think they don't know that they are being horribly underpaid compared to what similar laborers would earn in U.S.? Heck, there's nothing wrong with exploitation of foreigners -- our economy loves it! Isn't that so? Oh, wait, I forgot the prime moral justification: without our investment, they wouldn't even so much as have what little they have. True, absolutely true. But it doesn't detract from the fact that they are being <b>exploited</b>.
We could harp on certain "bad things" of each and every nation on earth and we all know that politics has absolutely nothing to do with friendship!!
Shall we talk about the atrocities done by the Israelis to the Palestinians? I don't think that would be a popular subject, eh?
And ASIAN PARANOIA? What a joke.....Come on Mr. Stern....this isn't QUEEFER MADNESS!!!
Shall we talk about the atrocities done by the Israelis to the Palestinians? I don't think that would be a popular subject, eh?
And ASIAN PARANOIA? What a joke.....Come on Mr. Stern....this isn't QUEEFER MADNESS!!!
<b><font color = "green">Bud, bud, buddy...</font></b>
I never really enjoyed smoking that stuff, but that didn't keep me from smoking it many years back. I had friends who would start their day with a hit and keep sucking it down throughout the day till bed. I never found that much pleasure in it.
As for the Chinese, do their pilots smoke dope?
I never really enjoyed smoking that stuff, but that didn't keep me from smoking it many years back. I had friends who would start their day with a hit and keep sucking it down throughout the day till bed. I never found that much pleasure in it.
As for the Chinese, do their pilots smoke dope?
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
duuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
is all i can think of in this situation cos
CHINA WON
they got the plane,
who in there rite mind would
belive they would dare enrage the biggist country / technology, in not giving back the crew.
they had to look good / strong for thier people,
and of coarse the chineese pilot aint dead
hes prob been practicing the manouver for months
notice how plump(as such) his wife is
most chineese are not that weight.
she prob lives like a queen
and he is a martre...or is that a flight-trainer(new)
and anywho... did you think the U.S would get-away with bombing thier embasy without paying for it??????????????????????????????????????????????????
now you know wat it cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just the never ending stooooooooory
groove on
is all i can think of in this situation cos
CHINA WON
they got the plane,
who in there rite mind would
belive they would dare enrage the biggist country / technology, in not giving back the crew.
they had to look good / strong for thier people,
and of coarse the chineese pilot aint dead
hes prob been practicing the manouver for months
notice how plump(as such) his wife is
most chineese are not that weight.
she prob lives like a queen
and he is a martre...or is that a flight-trainer(new)
and anywho... did you think the U.S would get-away with bombing thier embasy without paying for it??????????????????????????????????????????????????
now you know wat it cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just the never ending stooooooooory
groove on
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
too rite
hey howard
love your thoughts on that
amazing i thought that oh how young was all the special well trained...? spy crew were
young dumb and home they come... on
when do they get there medals
mwaahha!
i think you could be rite about the orrigin of the act itself
because if it was that secret they would have baild out and dumped the plane at high speed into the sea
so i thought anywho
groove on
hey howard
love your thoughts on that
amazing i thought that oh how young was all the special well trained...? spy crew were
young dumb and home they come... on
when do they get there medals
mwaahha!
i think you could be rite about the orrigin of the act itself
because if it was that secret they would have baild out and dumped the plane at high speed into the sea
so i thought anywho
groove on
Well, Fellas, we may never know the truth of this, uh, accident. It's good to feel a little anger once again.
We can watch and see how it plays out. I find it hard to believe that the Chinese would risk 8 billion in export into the US market over such a small matter. Maybe they are ignorant slopes, but I doubt it.
We can watch and see how it plays out. I find it hard to believe that the Chinese would risk 8 billion in export into the US market over such a small matter. Maybe they are ignorant slopes, but I doubt it.
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
thought
mass produce chocolate bars with wrappers with pictures(different ones...say a colection of 10...that would stir constructive futurrist interest by the kids) of people in different cities in the us showwing
european and chineese people living ...working...
and there children playing together
and then use stealth bombers to drop them in all the rural areas for a couple of days then drop them on the main city suberbs
the only risk would be if the chineese govt found out they might try and poison some of the rural area ones to make it look like an attack
so thats why you would have to do the rural areas first and with stealth and speed
my theory by a chocolate freak
groove on
mass produce chocolate bars with wrappers with pictures(different ones...say a colection of 10...that would stir constructive futurrist interest by the kids) of people in different cities in the us showwing
european and chineese people living ...working...
and there children playing together
and then use stealth bombers to drop them in all the rural areas for a couple of days then drop them on the main city suberbs
the only risk would be if the chineese govt found out they might try and poison some of the rural area ones to make it look like an attack
so thats why you would have to do the rural areas first and with stealth and speed
my theory by a chocolate freak
groove on
all I gots to say is.....
PROP PLANE vs. JET FIGHTER
what's the friggin' argument here?
PROP PLANE vs. JET FIGHTER
what's the friggin' argument here?
We had a huge prop-plane EP3 wich was on AUTOPILOT, and the Chinese had an agile free-flying jet fighter on MANUALPILOT. Manned by a guy named Wong Way non the less! Just as in boating incidents, the smaller craft is always to blame, because it has more manueverability.
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
too truethe chineese control there media soo much that the real chineese person has a twisted view of the world that lends strength to the facist dictators who run the country.
we should not be surprised at these things as much as trying to make people aware of the real issues
groove on all
Corp.Hudson
Registered Senior Member
China Is Cool
I personally hold the belief that China should keep the airplane. It does not matter who was at fault for the accident. The american plane was in Chinese waters when it hit the Chinese fighter jet, and landed at a Chinese air force base.
If an American jet hit a Chinese spy plane, and the Chinese spy plane made an emergency landing at an American air force base, America would handle the situation in the exact same manner. America would detain the Chinese crew, interrogate them, and release them. America would keep the plane for a longer period of time, to try and figure out why the crash occured, and also probably to check up on Chinese technology.
Also, I think everyone is a little bit too upset at the Chinese government. One of my core beliefs is that no government stays in power without the consent of the governed. I believe that the Chinese government has the consent of the governed. The Chinese people do not lead miserable lives in extreme poverty, despite the propaganda spread by American media. People think that when per capita GDP's are compared (Americas is ten times that of China), we can tell if the people are in poverty or not. This is simply not true. The truth is, a dollar goes much further in China. A full meal can be purchased at a nice restaurant for under a dollar! The cost of living is low, so the wages are also low.
Also, people seem to distrust the Chinese state-controlled media, and seem to prefer the free press in America. What people forget is that thus far the so-called free press in America has had only one source of information - the Defense Department. So both nations are being force fed government propaganda, and the people of both nations do not realize that fact.
I personally hold the belief that China should keep the airplane. It does not matter who was at fault for the accident. The american plane was in Chinese waters when it hit the Chinese fighter jet, and landed at a Chinese air force base.
If an American jet hit a Chinese spy plane, and the Chinese spy plane made an emergency landing at an American air force base, America would handle the situation in the exact same manner. America would detain the Chinese crew, interrogate them, and release them. America would keep the plane for a longer period of time, to try and figure out why the crash occured, and also probably to check up on Chinese technology.
Also, I think everyone is a little bit too upset at the Chinese government. One of my core beliefs is that no government stays in power without the consent of the governed. I believe that the Chinese government has the consent of the governed. The Chinese people do not lead miserable lives in extreme poverty, despite the propaganda spread by American media. People think that when per capita GDP's are compared (Americas is ten times that of China), we can tell if the people are in poverty or not. This is simply not true. The truth is, a dollar goes much further in China. A full meal can be purchased at a nice restaurant for under a dollar! The cost of living is low, so the wages are also low.
Also, people seem to distrust the Chinese state-controlled media, and seem to prefer the free press in America. What people forget is that thus far the so-called free press in America has had only one source of information - the Defense Department. So both nations are being force fed government propaganda, and the people of both nations do not realize that fact.
Corp.Hudson
Are you chinese???
or have you ever lived in a communist country???
Let me ask you this if everything is so well in china then why are we getting BOAT AFTER BOAT AFTER BOAT of illegal imegrants (sp?) landing in Australia from china. Tell me why a family who has it so good in china would risk everything?? put their childrens lives in EXTREME danger just to get out of china???
Are you chinese???
or have you ever lived in a communist country???
Let me ask you this if everything is so well in china then why are we getting BOAT AFTER BOAT AFTER BOAT of illegal imegrants (sp?) landing in Australia from china. Tell me why a family who has it so good in china would risk everything?? put their childrens lives in EXTREME danger just to get out of china???
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
if they had nothing to hide in the genral society(given the usa probly has the biggest list of govt murder in the western world)
why wont they let them leave when they want to????????????????????????????????????????
YES THE USA IS DOOMED WITH ITS PEOPLES LACK OF IMPARTIAL NESS/ MOST ARE HARD CORE CRISTIANS OR JEWS
THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO LOOSE... [THE WHOLE SOCIETY IS SET UP TO THE WINNER NO MATTER IF THEY CHEAT]
also american public image is one of extreem ego and self importance which is entirly self distructive...
BUT
they dont close the borders and if you catch them doing something illegal and get it to the press they are fucked
not in china the press is the govt and people cant say what they think!
hey corp ti-anamin square was no sunday picknic
people were rounded up even years after and were taken away and never heard from again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i myself try not to buy things that are made in china OR usa BUT WITH MOST OF THE BIG STUFF... WE HAVE NO OPTION
so..
bad points all round .. i know ...but im only looking out for the poor and average worker cos all the rich are
total loosers{they can go anywhere and do what they want]...so. lets get spacetravel mooving so they can all fuck off to the sun
aint life a hoot
why wont they let them leave when they want to????????????????????????????????????????
YES THE USA IS DOOMED WITH ITS PEOPLES LACK OF IMPARTIAL NESS/ MOST ARE HARD CORE CRISTIANS OR JEWS
THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO LOOSE... [THE WHOLE SOCIETY IS SET UP TO THE WINNER NO MATTER IF THEY CHEAT]
also american public image is one of extreem ego and self importance which is entirly self distructive...
BUT
they dont close the borders and if you catch them doing something illegal and get it to the press they are fucked
not in china the press is the govt and people cant say what they think!
hey corp ti-anamin square was no sunday picknic
people were rounded up even years after and were taken away and never heard from again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i myself try not to buy things that are made in china OR usa BUT WITH MOST OF THE BIG STUFF... WE HAVE NO OPTION
so..
bad points all round .. i know ...but im only looking out for the poor and average worker cos all the rich are
total loosers{they can go anywhere and do what they want]...so. lets get spacetravel mooving so they can all fuck off to the sun
aint life a hoot
Because the Chinese Government only show the bad things in western worlds. And the circulated rumors only tell the good things in western worlds. People don't trust govermnet medias, so they assume the rumors are the truth. Free gold on the ground, free this and free that, even free sex. No wonder they come in wave after waves.
patriotSTORM
Registered Senior Member
Sounds like you have the same concerns as the communists - ie: some having wealth is wrong. However, you solution is - well,.....................unusual to say the least.
ripleofdeath
Registered Senior Member
yo patriot
the rich of the world belive in survival of the fittest!
SO beacause i have been trained in some form of hand to hand combat does mean that it is only rite for me to kill a rich person and take there money?
that is the ultimate step of survival of the fittest!
*poor people die every day from not being able to afford medical treatment while people with billions of dollars prance about buying new goldplated cheese graters!
youre thoughts?
groove on all
the rich of the world belive in survival of the fittest!
SO beacause i have been trained in some form of hand to hand combat does mean that it is only rite for me to kill a rich person and take there money?
that is the ultimate step of survival of the fittest!
*poor people die every day from not being able to afford medical treatment while people with billions of dollars prance about buying new goldplated cheese graters!
youre thoughts?
groove on all
hmmm ....
A criticism of Communism which I recognize on two levels is important here: Some (my father included) assert that Communism "trusts" human nature too much; from each according to their ability, to each according to their need. My father's brand of conservatism criticized the difference between ability and will; that is, if the next guy on the line is getting paid the same as you and sits around being lazy, why should you work hard? The result, of course, being poor product quality and economic decline. I accept this; it is a valid and telling point. Yet the same economic conservatism has traditionally denied the same fault of Americanized capitalism; specifically, we see this in Reaganomic trickle-down. The idea of course being that if you coddle the wealthy, that benefit will pay off down the pyramid. It has not. A classic example is Reebok shoes; management lays off a third of its manufacturing force for "financial" reasons, and on the same day approves bonuses, raises, and gifts to its own management and executive staff which would have spoken for most, if not all, of the jobs. Perhaps the sportswear manufacturer could have, by its ability retained those employees. By the company's will, however, it did not. This is essentially the same device.
The benefit of Communism as a philosophy is that it recognizes the social unit on the grounds that, if the individual is all that is important, why, then, come together in society in the first place? It seems rather stupid if society is something we only tolerate so that we can screw the next guy. In that sense, the Capitalist individualism only considers the larger community in terms of market-share, growth, and economic potential. The detriment of Communism as a political practice is evident in history: a massive conglomeration of human psyche until individual identity is a mere shadow of a farce.
To turn that same mirror onto Capitalism, I find its greatest benefit to be that it allows satisfaction of my most extraneous greeds. So long as I am willing to compete tooth-and-nail with my neighbors, I can live in relative luxury and ignore the problems of other human beings; perhaps this seems an embittered sympathy, but I keep coming back to individual empowerment within society. It would seem that there must exist somewhere a degree of balance 'twixt the individual and the society that fosters individuals that actually benefits most, if not all, people. I think the primary detriment of Capitalism is seen in its running effect: people are so damned concerned about money.
People having wealth is not wrong. What is wrong in Capitalism is that people exploit wealth, accumulate it extraneously, and complain that someone else's need to eat interfere's with the rich person's right to free enterprise.
As we write and consider, the City of Seattle is at an odd quandary: It has just stomped on a local church that was housing the homeless in a tent city, levying fines, ad nauseam. For those of compassion, sorry, the city had both the right and the duty. Such laws as the city enforced (zoning laws, sanitary laws, &c.) make the issue interesting: Is it better to house the homeless temporarily in unsafe conditions, or not at all? This, of course, caused a storm of protest, despite the fact that the city, by law, had no choice in what action to take. (Do not envision me shedding tears at the city's tight spot.)
Considering this, and the SPD's response to things like traffic interruptions by large numbers of people (usually a small fracas at least), I'm wondering why nobody's tear-gassing the sports enthusiasts camping on the sidewalk outside REI, awaiting the yearly sale, blocking public thoroughfares, littering, and causing some distraction at least. Oh, of course ... REI's going to make some money, which can be taxed by public agencies, so we, the city, will even provide safety barricades to protect these shoppers.
But in this town, a parking lot is more important than a homeless shelter: so much so that the city will take money earmarked for homeless issues and spend it to build Nordstrom's a parking lot. The police have chased panhandlers out of various commercial sectors, claiming that they were a nuisance to shoppers. What, then, of the host of cheerleader squads, youth groups, and other associations receiving money from marketing firms to stand out on these very same sidewalks and accost people with flyers, plastic whistles, or single-serving cereal boxes. I would much rather devote my attention or money to helping someone get a meal, as compared to helping li'l Mary and her friends earn those really neat drill-team uniforms. I would rather give a cigarette to a homeless man than contribute to an upper-middle class student's class-trip to Philadelphia. I would rather hear, "Hey, you got a quarter so I can get a sandwich," than, "Free delivery with your first online purchase!"
Okay ... I'm off my soapbox for now. I know it's been a bit of a digression, but that senitment that Communism thinks wealth is wrong flat-out bugs me. It's one of many American xenophobias that keep us from getting along with the rest of the world.
On the other hand, I could care less about the jet. Between that and the reporting on the Peruvian drug-war shooting, I can't stand American news services right now. I would like to remind the world that Americans are told by their news outlets that the CIA begged the Peruvians not to shoot down those missionaries, and that the notion that the American spy plane was in Chinese waters would find great opposition among the voting, taxpaying masses. As far as the newswires around here are concerned, it might as well have been an evil Chinese cowboy-pilot harassing missionaries over Peru. It's all the same lie, here, but only because in our American-Capitalist something that we call society, it's more important to win than to be right, fair, or even awake.
thanx,
Tiassa
One of the American fights the economy has spurred, and one which stays low-key, because it is a telling figure throughout all of history, not just in American history, is the notion of created wealth. Whereas economic conservatives hail the "Reagan Economy" for creating X number of new jobs and introducing Y amount of wealth, economic liberals generally charge that Reaganomics created mostly low-paying jobs (whereby the social conservative value of "family", including the idea that one or the other parent should stick to parenting while the other wins bread, begins to fall to dust), and that the wealth created did not "trickle down" as advertised.
A criticism of Communism which I recognize on two levels is important here: Some (my father included) assert that Communism "trusts" human nature too much; from each according to their ability, to each according to their need. My father's brand of conservatism criticized the difference between ability and will; that is, if the next guy on the line is getting paid the same as you and sits around being lazy, why should you work hard? The result, of course, being poor product quality and economic decline. I accept this; it is a valid and telling point. Yet the same economic conservatism has traditionally denied the same fault of Americanized capitalism; specifically, we see this in Reaganomic trickle-down. The idea of course being that if you coddle the wealthy, that benefit will pay off down the pyramid. It has not. A classic example is Reebok shoes; management lays off a third of its manufacturing force for "financial" reasons, and on the same day approves bonuses, raises, and gifts to its own management and executive staff which would have spoken for most, if not all, of the jobs. Perhaps the sportswear manufacturer could have, by its ability retained those employees. By the company's will, however, it did not. This is essentially the same device.
The benefit of Communism as a philosophy is that it recognizes the social unit on the grounds that, if the individual is all that is important, why, then, come together in society in the first place? It seems rather stupid if society is something we only tolerate so that we can screw the next guy. In that sense, the Capitalist individualism only considers the larger community in terms of market-share, growth, and economic potential. The detriment of Communism as a political practice is evident in history: a massive conglomeration of human psyche until individual identity is a mere shadow of a farce.
To turn that same mirror onto Capitalism, I find its greatest benefit to be that it allows satisfaction of my most extraneous greeds. So long as I am willing to compete tooth-and-nail with my neighbors, I can live in relative luxury and ignore the problems of other human beings; perhaps this seems an embittered sympathy, but I keep coming back to individual empowerment within society. It would seem that there must exist somewhere a degree of balance 'twixt the individual and the society that fosters individuals that actually benefits most, if not all, people. I think the primary detriment of Capitalism is seen in its running effect: people are so damned concerned about money.
People having wealth is not wrong. What is wrong in Capitalism is that people exploit wealth, accumulate it extraneously, and complain that someone else's need to eat interfere's with the rich person's right to free enterprise.
As we write and consider, the City of Seattle is at an odd quandary: It has just stomped on a local church that was housing the homeless in a tent city, levying fines, ad nauseam. For those of compassion, sorry, the city had both the right and the duty. Such laws as the city enforced (zoning laws, sanitary laws, &c.) make the issue interesting: Is it better to house the homeless temporarily in unsafe conditions, or not at all? This, of course, caused a storm of protest, despite the fact that the city, by law, had no choice in what action to take. (Do not envision me shedding tears at the city's tight spot.)
Considering this, and the SPD's response to things like traffic interruptions by large numbers of people (usually a small fracas at least), I'm wondering why nobody's tear-gassing the sports enthusiasts camping on the sidewalk outside REI, awaiting the yearly sale, blocking public thoroughfares, littering, and causing some distraction at least. Oh, of course ... REI's going to make some money, which can be taxed by public agencies, so we, the city, will even provide safety barricades to protect these shoppers.
But in this town, a parking lot is more important than a homeless shelter: so much so that the city will take money earmarked for homeless issues and spend it to build Nordstrom's a parking lot. The police have chased panhandlers out of various commercial sectors, claiming that they were a nuisance to shoppers. What, then, of the host of cheerleader squads, youth groups, and other associations receiving money from marketing firms to stand out on these very same sidewalks and accost people with flyers, plastic whistles, or single-serving cereal boxes. I would much rather devote my attention or money to helping someone get a meal, as compared to helping li'l Mary and her friends earn those really neat drill-team uniforms. I would rather give a cigarette to a homeless man than contribute to an upper-middle class student's class-trip to Philadelphia. I would rather hear, "Hey, you got a quarter so I can get a sandwich," than, "Free delivery with your first online purchase!"
Okay ... I'm off my soapbox for now. I know it's been a bit of a digression, but that senitment that Communism thinks wealth is wrong flat-out bugs me. It's one of many American xenophobias that keep us from getting along with the rest of the world.
On the other hand, I could care less about the jet. Between that and the reporting on the Peruvian drug-war shooting, I can't stand American news services right now. I would like to remind the world that Americans are told by their news outlets that the CIA begged the Peruvians not to shoot down those missionaries, and that the notion that the American spy plane was in Chinese waters would find great opposition among the voting, taxpaying masses. As far as the newswires around here are concerned, it might as well have been an evil Chinese cowboy-pilot harassing missionaries over Peru. It's all the same lie, here, but only because in our American-Capitalist something that we call society, it's more important to win than to be right, fair, or even awake.
thanx,
Tiassa