Can Satan repent?

Do demons and devils have HOPE?

  • NO

    Votes: 2 66.7%

  • YES

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Maybe????? That would be nice wouldn't it??????

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    3
Write4U said:
Now there is an interesting philosophy of self-caused extinction, bypassing natural selection altogether in order to enter heaven as a pure virgin soul.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
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perhaps
perhaps not
there seems to be no central dogma
except that all things on earth are creations of the devil
including the church of rome
and so the Albigensian crusade to irradiate the heresy
during which, it is said that a captain asked the bishop in charge
how do we tell the good christians from the heretics
and the bishop responded
kill them all, god will know his own
 
sculptor said:
perhaps
perhaps not
there seems to be no central dogma
except that all things on earth are creations of the devil
including the church of rome
and so the Albigensian crusade to irradiate the heresy
during which, it is said that a captain asked the bishop in charge
how do we tell the good christians from the heretics
and the bishop responded
kill them all, god will know his own
Click to expand...
That's all good and well. Abstinence does not produce offspring and leads to extinction, at least in the physical world.
 
sculptor said:
perhaps
perhaps not
there seems to be no central dogma
except that all things on earth are creations of the devil
including the church of rome
and so the Albigensian crusade to irradiate the heresy
during which, it is said that a captain asked the bishop in charge
how do we tell the good christians from the heretics
and the bishop responded
kill them all, god will know his own
Click to expand...

Wow!!!!!!!

Those sure were not termed the "dark ages" without reason!
 
RainbowSingularity said:
play on words

cat satan represent !
Click to expand...

It would seem to me that if the tradition of Covering Cherub Halel leading a third of the angels of heaven with him.......
and being thrown out of heaven before he could have led the other two thirds.....
indicates that he is an exceptionally good promoter of his ideas?!


Dr. Richard Eby, near-death .com :
Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

Jesus paused again.

"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed 'adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony 'sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!"
Click to expand...
 
sculptor said:
Also known as the Albigensian genocide
at least 200k and perhaps a million cathars were slaughtered
(in a very real sense, the church of rome ushered in the dark ages with fire and sword.)
Click to expand...


Yes they did......
and for a strange and unusual comparison.....
the Worldwide Church of God began in 1934 with the first issue of The Plain Truth magazine by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong.....
and by 1986.... the time of Mr. Armstrong's death.......
the doctrines of the WWCG had placed him into a position where he could rival any Pope........

and for the record... I would not trade him as a mentor....
Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Garner Ted got me researching Evolutionary Theory.... world events and trends....
the Jewish and Christian scriptures and even many aspects of Judaism.

Although I now disagree on his teachings regarding Soul Sleep.....
I still am glad that I got my beginnings in philosophy from the WWCG.
 
Can Satan repent?
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Probably not:

1) Angels, in Christian tradition, have perfect knowledge.

2) Satan is an instrument of God.​

Perfect knowledge is generally taken to mean an angel knows everything save the mysterium itself; that is, the mystery of God's grace remains mysterious because they are not God and thus cannot know.

In this context, Satan knew everything he needed to know in order to make his decision; it was the only decision he could make, a result of his context within perfect knowledge.

Satan himself is God's instrument°; in this aspect, he will only repent if it is his role to do so. As an anchor for definitions, Satan's role seems essential; there must, in the schematic describing God's Creation, be someone or something to fulfill the station Satan serves°°. Repentance seems unlikely.
____________________

Notes:

° See, Book of Job, 1.9-12↱. True, there is an alternate reading describing God as a cruel and cowardly master, but that might actually justify Satan; it gets complicated.

°° In a broader, more literary consideration, there are a number of existentially fundamental aspects of Satan, or his station in Abramism, frequently and significantly iterated in their own way among other cultures outside the Abramic experience. Themes of contradiction stand out in the moment, because it is true most do not think of Satan as an instrument of God, but there also remains a question of what most people might think about Satan has to do with which, or even any, record or tradition or story.​
 
Tiassa said:
Probably not:

1) Angels, in Christian tradition, have perfect knowledge.

2) Satan is an instrument of God.​

Perfect knowledge is generally taken to mean an angel knows everything save the mysterium itself; that is, the mystery of God's grace remains mysterious because they are not God and thus cannot know.

In this context, Satan knew everything he needed to know in order to make his decision; it was the only decision he could make, a result of his context within perfect knowledge.

Satan himself is God's instrument°; in this aspect, he will only repent if it is his role to do so. As an anchor for definitions, Satan's role seems essential; there must, in the schematic describing God's Creation, be someone or something to fulfill the station Satan serves°°. Repentance seems unlikely.
____________________

Notes:

° See, Book of Job, 1.9-12↱. True, there is an alternate reading describing God as a cruel and cowardly master, but that might actually justify Satan; it gets complicated.

°° In a broader, more literary consideration, there are a number of existentially fundamental aspects of Satan, or his station in Abramism, frequently and significantly iterated in their own way among other cultures outside the Abramic experience. Themes of contradiction stand out in the moment, because it is true most do not think of Satan as an instrument of God, but there also remains a question of what most people might think about Satan has to do with which, or even any, record or tradition or story.​
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Yes.... the ideas about Satan in the Book of Job are troubling......
I heard near death experiencer and Orthodox, (or perhaps Chassidic), Jewish Rabbi Alon Anava comment on the book of Job in which he referred to
ancient traditions that Job......
had given very "wise" but not exactly merciful advice to Pharaoh that played a role in the way in which the children of ten of the twelve tribes of Israel were
treated in Egypt.

Job may have been a grandson of Issachar and in a sense a nephew or grand nephew of the Patriarch Joseph.

In Egypt... the descendants of Ephrayim, the youngest son of Joseph were not slaves.....
but instead were free to leave Egypt at least years if not decades previous to the Exodus led by Moses......
(according to the rather ancient Book of Jasher at least). The Book of Jasher chapter seventy five has a story about
twenty five thousand descendants of Ephrayim leaving Egypt but not taking any food with them....
so they lost a war against the Philistines and were all killed.

The descendants of the other ten tribes of Israel in Egypt were definitely treated as slaves and the specific methods used against them, according to Rabbi Alon Anava, can be traced back to advice given by Job..... that would help to explain why God allowed Satan to test Job so mercilessly.


https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/75.htm
 
From an Abrahamic faith point of view, Satan is thought of as perpetually evil. If Satan were willing to repent, the story would change.
 
All gods are subliminal representations of natural phenomena and common human character traits and foibles.
IMO, this has not in any way changed from the time when the first hominid raised a stick to the "heavens" and cursed the unseen beings that made the light and darkness and when angry threatened his troupe with thunder, fire, and rain.

The list of gods is long....very long and represent almost all of human knowledge and behavior.

Motif-index[edit]

Baronne Rigoley d'Ogny as Aurora, by Jean-Marc Nattier, Baltimore Museum of Art
A basic classification of the types of gods as based on the Motif-Index of Folk-Literature, by Stith Thompson:[1]

Other deities by association
and some
Other classifications

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deities_by_classification

What science calls "natural phenomena" , religion calls "gods". It's just a leftover from very old times, when the elders taught the people and of course had no idea about physics.

Sentient Hominids have roamed the earth for 150,000 years, Science has been around for maybe 5,000 years.

Once acclimated to a social structure, human resist change.

If you want to see more naturally occurring human behavioral folklore and spiritual beliefs :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif-Index_of_Folk-Literature
 
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wegs said:
From an Abrahamic faith point of view, Satan is thought of as perpetually evil. If Satan were willing to repent, the story would change.
Click to expand...

That is certainly what I have been taught in any and all churches.....
but if it is true that new and more clear information will be revealed
in the time just before the beginning of the Millennium or the Era of Moshiach as Jews term it......
and if one part of more clear information is being revealed through what is shown to people who have
brushes with death then......
we are living in a time period where an impressive case for Eventual Universal Salvation can be presented.

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

What is our ultimate destiny?

A day will come when our Light will have become so large that we will eventually choose to merge and go back to the Creator and be as ONEjust as we were in the beginning.

Once we are all ONE again, there will be a great celebration. And after a certain amount of time has passed, yet again, there will be another great explosion, only this time it will be much bigger and the process of Creation will be far more advanced.

I felt tremendous Joy and honor in having been shown these things and with great confidence, I promised God (The Light) that I would do my very best. And in return, I was told my best would certainly be enough!" (Christian Andreason, chapter two)
Click to expand...
.....
Who goes to Heaven?

In the endbelieve it or not (sigh of relief) everyone gets to come home! I know some people will have a hard time hearing this. Especially those who believe that people who do evil deserve damnation. But you must understand; Heaven does not think as we do. Heaven is a place of ultimate LOVE! They want nothing more than to see us healed and restored should we have been damaged by evil. And to Heaven, those who are hurt by evil or even seen as Souls' who actually do it ... are all seen as individuals who are hurting in the worst wayand in need to repair. Also, do you honestly think Jesus would have asked us to forgive, serve and Love one another without hesitationif Heaven does not do that as well? Think about it.

Understand, God has a perfect system of justice. What comes around, always goes around. No one ever gets away with anything. I can promise you that! What we do not rectify and make right in this life, we will have to accomplish in the next one. The great Christian teacher from India, Paramahansa Yogananda, believes that Heaven does not usually allow us to remember former incarnations because of the challenging Karma we may have endured before. He says, there is no greater "hell" than the hell we create for ourselves though the perpetration of unloving behavior. The energy of such deeds always comes to find us in later lives.

When we have learned how to become individuals that base our entire existence and consciousness around manifesting LOVE, we then become capable of entering the domain of the higher Realms of Heaven while also understanding how Heaven thinks. In the Bible, it is written, "Our thoughts are not like God's thoughtsand our ways are not like God's ways." And without the energy of Love permeating our being fully, we will never even come close to thinking like God.

The bottom line is this: until we practice Love consistently, we will only go so far until we are made to incarnate somewhere in God's Super Universe again and again (unlimited times) until we finally learn our lesson. Until then, we will be allowed to come back home to various parts of the Realm temporarily, so that we can be refreshed, refurnished and taught by our elders, Soul Family and our guides. But once we are done, it is off to work we go!

But what about the people who ALWAYS do bad things in life?

First of all, when we make errors in life, God does not see us as bad people, but Souls who are in need to enlightenment.

If we do harm to others or ourselves in life, God sends us to a place or future incarnation that will ultimately show us why doing such things is wrong. These lifetimes tend to be very severe.

You can trust that when God or Heaven sends you somewhere to learn something, the lesson will be learned soon enough!" (Christian Andreason, chapter three)
Click to expand...

"These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father." (John 15:25)
 
Write4U said:
All gods are subliminal representations of natural phenomena and common human character traits and foibles.
IMO, this has not in any way changed from the time when the first hominid raised a stick to the "heavens" and cursed the unseen beings that made the light and darkness and when angry threatened his troupe with thunder, fire, and rain.

The list of gods is long....very long and represent almost all of human knowledge and behavior.

Motif-index[edit]

Baronne Rigoley d'Ogny as Aurora, by Jean-Marc Nattier, Baltimore Museum of Art
A basic classification of the types of gods as based on the Motif-Index of Folk-Literature, by Stith Thompson:[1]

  • ...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deities_by_classification

What science calls "natural phenomena" , religion calls "gods". It's just a leftover from very old times, when the elders taught the people and of course had no idea about physics.

Sentient Hominids have roamed the earth for 150,000 years, Science has been around for maybe 5,000 years.

Once acclimated to a social structure, human resist change.

If you want to see more naturally occurring human behavioral folklore and spiritual beliefs :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif-Index_of_Folk-Literature
Click to expand...

Personally..... the existence of extremely powerful life forms would fit with my idea of
God evolving or learning over infinite time in the past. Some or even many of the
ancient traditions about "gods" could have a basis in a more Theistic Evolutionary Theory.


My guess is that Intelligence first came into existence in fundamental energy.....
assuming M-Theory I would guess that the energy of the eleventh space time dimension would begin to
think and plan and experiment first........
then later on fundamental energy would be formed into a more complex tenth dimensional continuum......

then later into a ninth dimensional continuum.....

later on an eighth dimension teeming with many life forms.....

later on a seventh dimension also teeming with life that on one level are somewhat "experimental"......

later on a sixth dimension teeming with life forms much less complicated than we humans are but with capabilities far beyond ours.....

later on a fifth dimensional space time was invented.... (I suspect as something of a prison environment for spirits who are very selfish and
predatory)..... (actually a lot of really angry and hateful beings may well exist in the energy of the sixth dimension as well)........ or it may be that
fifth and sixth dimensional space - time later on became more and more of a prison environment.......
but perhaps at first those levels of energy / life may have been very different indeed.

I suspect that to a degree... former Covering Cherub Halel who fell and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because it was in
Eden that he was in charge of...... I assume that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is somewhat like a program that increases
understanding exponentially but..... also leads to a terrible temptation.

I believe that the anger that former Covering Cherub Halel felt as he was thrown down......
would astonish us..... assuming that he was formed out of perhaps eighth or ninth dimensional energy......
the emotions that he would face would be far greater than the levels of jealousy or anger that we humans go through
so often.

To some degree... I do suspect that
Satan is acting in the mind set of the Milgram Experiment and is testing all of us
but perhaps..... if he within himself most admires the people who learn to love others.....
as opposed to becoming predatory and selfish......
This would compare to Stanley Milgram Ph. D. of course being more impressed with the
"Teacher Subjects" who DO NOT zap the "Learner Subject" with dangerously high levels of electrical pulse as they would deliberately
enact giving a wrong answer.......?!

The Milgram Shock Experiment
By Saul McLeod, updated 2017
 
From my perspective as atheist, I don't see the concept of natural evil intelligence as part of the evolutionary process.There is no evidence that with exception of hominids, predatory animals utilize what may be called evil methods to kill prey for pleasure.

Evil is the exercise of cruelty in a manner profoundly immoral and wicked.

I don't see nature as profoundly immoral and wicked. It functions in an impersonal deterministic mathematical fashion, not with evil or cruel intent.
A natural extinction epoch, there have been 5 is not immoral or wicked, they are a result of climate change or other natural disaster.

We are currently in the midst of what is called the primarily man caused sixth extinction event, the Anthropocene epoch and our biological annihilation. Nothing evil about that. It's man's wanton disregard for natural laws that are causal to an imbalance of climate and common natural resources such as water pollution, etc.

The ozone hole causing ultraviolet damage was caused by man's use of chlorine in refrigerants and aerosols, supposedly angering the gods, but in reality only causing a climatic imbalance harmful especially man.

Ozone depletion is a major environmental problem because it increases the amount of ultraviolet (UV) radiation that reaches Earth's surface, which increases the rate of skin cancer, eye cataracts, and genetic and immune system damage.Feb 12, 2021

Nothing evil about that. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".
 
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Write4U said:
From my perspective as atheist, I don't see the concept of natural evil intelligence as part of the evolutionary process.There is no evidence that with exception of hominids, predatory animals utilize what may be called evil methods to kill prey for pleasure.

Evil is the exercise of cruelty in a manner profoundly immoral and wicked.

I don't see nature as profoundly immoral and wicked. It functions in an impersonal deterministic mathematical fashion, not with evil or cruel intent.
A natural extinction epoch, there have been 5 is not immoral or wicked, they are a result of climate change or other natural disaster.

We are currently in the midst of what is called the primarily man caused sixth extinction event, the Anthropocene epoch and our biological annihilation. Nothing evil about that. It's man's wanton disregard for natural laws that are causal to an imbalance of climate and common natural resources such as water pollution, etc.

The ozone hole causing ultraviolet damage was caused by man's use of chlorine in refrigerants and aerosols, supposedly angering the gods, but in reality only causing a climatic imbalance harmful especially man.

Ozone depletion is a major environmental problem because it increases the amount of ultraviolet (UV) radiation that reaches Earth's surface, which increases the rate of skin cancer, eye cataracts, and genetic and immune system damage.Feb 12, 2021

Nothing evil about that. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".
Click to expand...

Good point.... whatever type of program was in The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
seems to have given mankind.... as well as Satan and the fallen angels and I assume fallen predatory alien races, an ability to come up with genuinely evil
and predatory behaviour patterns.


Near death experiencer Kevin Zadai was shown that Covering Cherub Halel took and ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil before he
began his rebellion against heaven partly in an attempt to get worship for himself.

The clones and partly human hybrids who existed before the time of Noah, according to some ancient books, were all descended from
people who had taken that Tree that I assume gave those and their descendants extra capabilities of freedom of choice even toward genuine evil.


18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals." (Book of Jasher, chapter four)
https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/4.htm
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Dennis Tate said:
The clones and partly human hybrids who existed before the time of Noah, according to some ancient books, were all descended from people who had taken that Tree that I assume gave those and their descendants extra capabilities of freedom of choice even toward genuine evil.
Click to expand...
Yes, but all that is metaphorical. Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge is a metaphor of an evolving brain able to think abstractly. There is no evidence of a tree that imbues intelligence when you eat of its fruit, but there is strong evidence of an evolutionary process that reslted in a larger more complex brain.

I believe the causal event occurred when two chromosomes in an ancestral hominid fused and mutated in a single but much longer chromosome. The proof of this lies in the fact that only humans have 46 chromosomes while all other hominids have 48 chromosomes.

Introduction
All great apes apart from man have 24 pairs of chromosomes. There is therefore a hypothesis that the common ancestor of all great apes had 24 pairs of chromosomes and that the fusion of two of the ancestor's chromosomes created chromosome 2 in humans. The evidence for this hypothesis is very strong.
Click to expand...
Not only is this strong evidence for a fusion event, but it is also strong evidence for common ancestry; in fact, it is hard to explain by any other mechanism.
Click to expand...
hum_ape_chrom_2.gif

Conclusion
The evidence that human chromosome 2 is a fusion of two of the common ancestor's chromosomes is overwhelming.
Click to expand...
http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm
 
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