Body Signals Redux: Proving Mormonism

Truck Captain Stumpy said:
i see you still don't understand: it doesn't matter if i "believe" or not because it's true (or factual) regardless of the belief of the observer

case in point: a man gets hit by a car and breaks his legs. he can believe he was hit by god, but regardless of what he believes, he was still hit by a car. it was not a gust of air, meteor or any other object and this is validated by not only the evidence but that you can reproduce the exact same injuries under the exact same conditions with the exact same parameters.
period


1- valid as proof of what?
2- in science? nope; in religion? this is like asking if faerie farts cause hurricanes: so long as that is what you want to believe then it will be true only to the believer... it doesn't make it reality any more than standing in a garage makes you a Toyota.


it doesn't matter what my opinion is or what spirituality is

it aint science and it aint a scientific truth in any way, shape or form
it also has nothing to do with science
nor does it really have to do with proving your beliefs with science
Click to expand...

So how can you be sure we're not all just thoughts in the mind of a dreaming god? That your eyes actually see what's really there in front of you?
 
From Wiki....

"Wow if nothing else the church keeps a few workers in work." My comment the following is from Wiki.


On average, the church builds a little more than one chapel a day.[citation needed] The church built about 40 smaller temples between 1998 and 2001. There are 155 operating temples (which includes 3 previously dedicated, but closed for renovation), 12 under construction, and 10 announced (not yet under construction). (See List of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.)

Yes citation needed but one can tell they are active.

Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Wow that must bring in huge ( Donald got huge from me by the way) cash flow.
That would possibly be 20,000,000 times say $50 to $100 a week.

Do you know how much the church brings in per year?
Click to expand...

quite a bit.

That could certainly do some good things..

Does it?

How is the money spent?
Click to expand...

Most of it goes to the poor and needy. Some goes to church-owned universities, overseas humanitarian aid, disaster victims, philanthropies, etc.

And look you could cut out a lot of paper work and just send me your contribution ... Actually don't bother I can't think of anyone I can help.

And thanks for being so open.
Again I hope your personal matters go well and of course if you think I can help do not hesitate to ask.

Alex
Click to expand...

Who should I make the check out to? ;)
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
No please do not think of sending me money, it would be a burden.
Once I spent it I would worry that I may have found a better cause or there were more needy folk that I could have helped.

Alex
Click to expand...

Don't worry. My tithing is miniscule compared to most--but I still get the blessings as say, a millionaire who pays 10%.
 
Billy Baxter said:
So how can you be sure we're not all just thoughts in the mind of a dreaming god?
Click to expand...
how can you be sure you're not on fire at this moment?
when you can answer that point you will have your answer

this is why philosophy isn't considered science, BTW. you can make an argument for just about anything, and that is the foundation of philosophy... however, in science, things are different and require a methodology that removes bias and promotes facts that aren't subjective (repeatable events that are the same regardless of the tester).

Billy Baxter said:
That your eyes actually see what's really there in front of you?
Click to expand...
see above


Billy Baxter said:
My tithing is miniscule compared to most--but I still get the blessings as say, a millionaire who pays 10%.
Click to expand...
do you?
how can you be sure?
do you have a forensic accountant that follows everyone around insuring there is a fair and just blessing from your deity?
or is it all subjective and based upon your personal acceptance of the claim that you're getting the same blessings?

get the point yet?
 
Truck Captain Stumpy said:
how can you be sure you're not on fire at this moment?
when you can answer that point you will have your answer
Click to expand...

Prove to me you're not just a computer responding to me online.

this is why philosophy isn't considered science, BTW. you can make an argument for just about anything, and that is the foundation of philosophy... however, in science, things are different and require a methodology that removes bias and promotes facts that aren't subjective (repeatable events that are the same regardless of the tester).
Click to expand...

Again: prove to me that you aren't just a character in a sleeping god's dream.

bb
 
Billy Baxter said:
prove to me that you aren't just a character in a sleeping god's dream.
Click to expand...
Because Gods dont sleep, everyone knows that, so there is no dream to be part of...
I did some sums.
I calculate the church should be getting between 30 & 40 billion a year but they say its only 7 billion.
I think someone is taking money. I think it should be looked into.
Can we look into this, wherecan I inspect the books..
Alex
 
Billy Baxter said:
Prove to me you're not just a computer responding to me online.
Click to expand...
if you can't tell by the interaction, you won't be able to tell by any other means because it refutes your delusion

Billy Baxter said:
Again: prove to me that you aren't just a character in a sleeping god's dream.
Click to expand...
1- specify which god

2- i can actually do this, but it requires being in person, unless you're referring to the Abrahamic religions "god". then it's just a matter of proving the legitimacy of said bible, to which all things hinge in said faith, which has been proven to be a fictitious narrative.

2a- meeting in person - this is not something you would ever be capable of doing not only because it would undermine your delusional beliefs but because it would demonstrate the delusion you've chosen to accept as legitimately real is nothing but a false world, and as such the crashing of your beliefs could prove to be unsettling to the point of confinement due to mental duress.

philosophy aint science, neither is religion
 
Truck Captain Stumpy said:
if you can't tell by the interaction, you won't be able to tell by any other means because it refutes your delusion


1- specify which god

2- i can actually do this, but it requires being in person, unless you're referring to the Abrahamic religions "god". then it's just a matter of proving the legitimacy of said bible, to which all things hinge in said faith, which has been proven to be a fictitious narrative.

2a- meeting in person - this is not something you would ever be capable of doing not only because it would undermine your delusional beliefs but because it would demonstrate the delusion you've chosen to accept as legitimately real is nothing but a false world, and as such the crashing of your beliefs could prove to be unsettling to the point of confinement due to mental duress.

philosophy aint science, neither is religion
Click to expand...

My "delusion"? I know you exist, of course. I'm just trying to get you to see that your god (science) has limitations logically.

bb
 
Billy Baxter said:
I'm just trying to get you to see that your god (science) has limitations logically.
Click to expand...
1- Science is not a god. it is a method to explain reality around you with coherent, factual unbiased repeatable validated experiments etc
here is a very clear definition that is supported by links, references and facts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

making the claim that Science is a religion because it answers questions is like making the claim you're a Toyota because you have a garage on your house
science is not about belief at all. it's about facts.

2- the only limitations science has is the unasked and the unanswered question.

3- what you just did was attempt to assign a moral or emotional attachment to a fact. this means, by definition, you're attempting to make an objective unbiased method of gathering data and facts (science) a subjective topic based upon interpretation. that is not science at all, that is philosophy, hence my point: philosophy aint science, neither is religion

4- there is no shame in not having an answer, either. the reason philosophy and religion exist is because humans have this huge brain failure: they want an answer. any answer. especially if it sounds good. it doesn't have to be logical (religion), nor does it have to be factual (philosophy), it only has to conform to the users biases (hence the subjectivity). in science, this is not the case: a question without an answer is simply one that hasn't been answered

so using the god of the gaps argument means that should you assign your argument of limitations based upon your current understanding then it will forever be a receding point that forever becomes the purview of science as it answers the unanswered questions. this is typical in religion and philosophy both. it is also demonstrated through history, from gravity to evolution

EDIT: addendum

Billy Baxter said:
My "delusion"?
Click to expand...
yes, your delusion
see above for explanation
 
Billy Baxter said:
I interact with God on a daily basis
Click to expand...
then prove it
can you provide empirical evidence that meets or exceeds the mandate for unbiased evidence per the scientific method?
this would also require evidence from a secondary non-related source for validation

combine the two and present them

the reason it is considered a delusion is because your argument can't be proven to anyone that isn't willing to suspend reality and critical thinking to accept your comments on faith, which is literally the belief in something regardless of, or completely without, evidence.

this is the exact same thing as certain mental illnesses: you may well believe it and it may well be real for you, but just because you believe it doesn't mean it is true

Billy Baxter said:
He is more real to me than you are.
Click to expand...
and this is a common argument among most mental illness patients
Billy Baxter said:
Delusion? Not likely.
Click to expand...

see above
 
Billy Baxter said:
i know you are, but what am i?
Click to expand...
so... you want discourse unless it specifically undermines or demonstrates the delusional behaviour you're displaying?
and in response you completely ignore the facts so you can post some irrational immature statement...

is that about it?

so, in other words, you are validating my points regarding your behaviour and rationality

thanks for proving me correct. i appreciate it

should you have more time to answer some questions in a poll for people like yourself, let me know.
it involves a study into irrational and delusional mindsets where the religious, conspiracist, political, pseudoscience and other ideologies overwhelm rational thought

you can remain anonymous but that would mean no payment when the authorization comes through, just FYI
 
Billy Baxter said:
I interact with God on a daily basis; He is more real to me than you are.
Delusion? Not likely.

bb
Click to expand...
Hi Billy,
You may risk critisism if you answer, but I am sincerely interested, my question which is.. How does this interaction take place as you perceive.
Is it a feeling you are not alone or do you hear God speak to you?Do you pray and feel things turn out as you asked God for it to happen. Is it a voice you hear or an imagination type of thing.
You seem like a decent chap and I am interested to know how it works in practice for you.
Say you expect a hard day at work with difficult problems do you pray for it to work out or does God talk you through the day.
I will understand if you find my enquirey too personal but I would like a picture of the daily interaction you mention.
Alex
 
Last edited:
Truck Captain Stumpy said:
so... you want discourse unless it specifically undermines or demonstrates the delusional behaviour you're displaying?
and in response you completely ignore the facts so you can post some irrational immature statement...

is that about it?

so, in other words, you are validating my points regarding your behaviour and rationality

thanks for proving me correct. i appreciate it

should you have more time to answer some questions in a poll for people like yourself, let me know.
it involves a study into irrational and delusional mindsets where the religious, conspiracist, political, pseudoscience and other ideologies overwhelm rational thought

you can remain anonymous but that would mean no payment when the authorization comes through, just FYI
Click to expand...

not interested, thanks

bb
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Hi Billy,
You may risk critisism if you answer, but I am sincerely interested, my question which is.. How does this interaction take place as you perceive.
Is it a feeling you are not alone or do you hear God speak to you?Do you pray and feel things turn out as you asked God for it to happen. Is it a voice you hear or an imagination type of thing.
You seem like a decent chap and I am interested to know how it works in practice for you.
Say you expect a hard day at work with difficult problems do you pray for it to work out or does God talk you through the day.
I will understand if you find my enquirey too personal but I would like a picture of the daily interaction you mention.
Alex
Click to expand...

It's mostly with thoughts, feelings and impressions. And of course the ever-present body signals. I don't want to get too personal on a public message board.

bb
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top