black holes older than their galaxy?

sculptor

sculptor

Valued Senior Member
Please opine about black holes---which may be older than their galaxies.

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Oh, and do you think that wormholes exist?
 
Black holes are locations where math doesn't work.

(by this definition, there are quite a few BHs inside of our current ruling party)
 
sculptor said:
Please opine about black holes---which may be older than their galaxies.

.......................
Oh, and do you think that wormholes exist?
Click to expand...
Black Holes have been discovered by the JWST that appear older then their host galaxies.
Hypothetically these maybe primordial BH's that formed when spacetime (as we know them) started to evolve...aka the big bang.
Worm Holes while being a solution of general relativity, have yet to be discovered and probably don't exist.

You have probably heard of singularities when BH's are spoken about.
The definition most familiar, (but wrong) is "a singularity is a point in space where the density of matter and the curvature of spacetime become infinite."
The best we can say is that a BH singularity, (gravitational singularity) "approaches" the aspect of infinite spacetime curvature and density. Our laws of physics and general relativity fail us before such infinities are ever reached. That point is the Planck/quantum scale.
The same applies to the initial singularity associated with the BB.
In that very first Planck/Quantum instant after the BB, spacetime existed in some unknown form that general relativity and our known laws of physics fail us.
 
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TheVat said:
Well, I think that's what I meant, i.e. the center of the BH. Equations spitting out infinities.
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OK but that’s somewhat different. My understanding is that a black hole has a defined radius with a (putative) singularity only at its centre. As far as I’m aware, maths - and physics - work fine inside the event horizon apart from at the singularity itself.
 
sculptor said:
Please opine about black holes---which may be older than their galaxies.
Click to expand...

If black holes can form in a few seconds after the big bang, then what’s to stop them being the seed of a galaxy millions or more years later?
Scientists theorize that primordial black holes formed in the first second after the birth of the universe. In that moment, pockets of hot material may have been dense enough to form black holes, potentially with masses ranging from 100,000 times less than a paperclip to 100,000 times more than the Sun’s. Then as the universe quickly expanded and cooled, the conditions for forming black holes this way ended.
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NASA 1

Whether QSO1’s black hole evolved from a “heavy seed” that formed within the first second of the big bang or somewhat later from the collapse of a giant cloud of gas, it was almost certainly born big, and may be in the early stages of building a galaxy around it.
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NASA 2

sculptor said:
Oh, and do you think that wormholes exist?
Click to expand...
White holes are suppose to be unstable to keep open and may collapse anytime, I hope they exist, they sound fun.
Wait and see I suppose.
 
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