black hole's information

I don't deny it. The question is if the reference was related to the discussion.
I don't just throw this stuff in without trying to make a point about the subject under discussion.

If that seems off-topic, I am always happy to discuss what I believe makes it relevant.

In this thread

ESA’s high-energy observatories spot doughnut-shaped cloud with a black-hole filling​


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What about this is irrelevant to the OP?
Everything. It's a gas cloud. A gas cloud is not a black hole. Durrh.

We got your number long ago. What you have done here is hastily make an internet search, with "black hole" and toroid" as search terms, and then stick whatever has come up into a post, to try to justify in retrospect your irrelevant rambling. There has been zero actual input from your brain.
 
I don't deny it. The question is if the reference was related to the discussion.
I don't just throw this stuff in without trying to make a point about the subject under discussion.

If that seems off-topic, I am always happy to discuss what I believe makes it relevant.

Black holes are not ordinary objects. Scientists have data on them but they are far being fully understood.

They were theorized, then indirect evidence, finally direct evidence in 2019

Have a look at this.


This has a short video from Caltech.

NASA video.

 
Did you read the title of what you quoted, Write4U? The article is about a "doughnut-shaped cloud", not about the shape of a black hole. Specifically, the article is referring to the accretion discs surrounding black holes, not the holes themselves.
 
Did you read the title of what you quoted, Write4U? The article is about a "doughnut-shaped cloud", not about the shape of a black hole. Specifically, the article is referring to the accretion discs surrounding black holes, not the holes themselves.
Nobody is talking about a hole in space. I am talking about the gravitational effect of the central singularity, and the possibility that a supermassive black hole creates an energetic worm hole instead of a massive singularity.

A black hole is the name for the entire area affected by the singularity. It is what makes the "hole" in the toroid shape of the entire pattern. Its gravity is what creates the spacetime well. The accretion disc is the gravitational result

Observational evidence indicates that almost every large galaxy has a supermassive black hole at its center. For example, the Milky Way galaxy has a supermassive black hole at its center, corresponding to the radio source Sagittarius A*.

Now consider this from a universal perspective and what a toroid universe would look like?
A central black hole singularity and a universal spacetime accretion disc. If not a single object, then perhaps a multiverse where new smaller universes are born constantly. If new galaxies are born why not new universe?

One thing we do know is that galaxies are still forming and assembling today. There are many, many examples of galaxies colliding and merging to form new galaxies.

What nobody knows is if there is what's on the other side of a supermassive universal black hole.

Black hole cosmology​

The minimal coupling between torsion and Dirac spinors generates a repulsive spin-spin interaction which is significant in fermionic matter at extremely high densities. Such an interaction prevents the formation of a gravitational singularity. Instead, the collapsing matter reaches an enormous but finite density and rebounds, forming the other side of an Einstein-Rosen bridge, which grows as a new universe.[5]
Accordingly, the Big Bang was a nonsingular Big Bounce at which the universe had a finite, minimum scale factor.[6] Or, the Big Bang was a supermassive white hole that was the result of a supermassive black hole at the heart of a galaxy in our parent universe.
Shockwave cosmology, proposed by Joel Smoller and Blake Temple in 2003,[7] has the “big bang” as an explosion inside a black hole, producing the expanding volume of space and matter that includes the observable universe.
This black hole eventually becomes a white hole as the matter density reduces with the expansion.[7] A related theory proposes that the acceleration of the expansion of the observable universe, normally attributed to dark energy, may be caused by an effect of the shockwave.

Assuming that this is correct, we end up with a constant renewal of the same universe via recycling of the energy potential of the same universe, or the creation of new smaller universes in a multiverse scenario.

It would account for an alternately expanding and contracting universe.
This "shockwave" model might also account for David Bohm's Pilot Wave model, which solves the particle duality question.
It would also account for the seemingly endless supply and conservation of energy .

I may be way off, but it is these questions that present to me as the simplest functional model that also satisfies all the remaining questions.
Note that I am not making this up but I am only quoting current hypotheses. I am not thinking about the bits and pieces that must be kept separate during debates on the properties of the universe. I like to weave a mental tapestry that presents a universal landscape.

If the actual science can be mathematically represented, then any concept will sort itself out as we explore the different perspectives, no?

p.s. I may dream big, but I do realize my limitations. All this is probative in nature.
 
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A black hole is the name for the entire area affected by the singularity. It is what makes the "hole" in the toroid shape of the entire pattern.
By "toroid shape" are you referring to the accretion disk?

1720550214092.png

That is not part of a black hole, although black holes often have accretion discs.

Any object massive enough can have an accretion disk, in principle. It is not specific to black holes.
Our proto sun had an accretion disc of material when it was forming.
 
Yes, the toroid pattern is very much part of our universe. And if we can observe it in many galaxies, why should that not be an object of interest to science?

The Regenerative Flow of Nature
What if you could tap into a natural, organic flow of energy in your business, community or initiative that is life-giving, self-organizing, self-sustaining, coherent at any scale, abundant, and connected to the limitless potential of the universe?

The Torus
There is a field of energy that surrounds every living thing, generated by a process known as the torus ~ nature’s way of creating and sustaining life.
The torus is the regenerative flow of life-force energy found in the human heart, as well as the heart of the Earth, the Sun, and the Milky Way Galaxy. This electromagnetic field is found in atoms, cells, seeds, flowers, trees, animals, humans, hurricanes, planets, suns, galaxies and even the cosmos as a whole.
1720580400565.png
A torus is made up of a central axis with a vortex at both ends and a surrounding coherent field. Energy flows in one vortex, through the central axis, out the other vortex, and then wraps around itself to return to the first incoming vortex. In this way, the energy “inside-outs,” continuously flowing back into itself.

Self-Sustaining and Scalable​

Scientist and philosopher, Arthur Young, explained that a torus is the only energy pattern or dynamic that can sustain itself and is made out of the same substance as its surroundings ~ like a tornado, a smoke ring in the air, or a whirlpool in water.
more...https://medium.com/grail-leadership/the-regenerative-flow-of-nature-98024007f8e0
 
The Torus
There is a field of energy that surrounds every living thing, generated by a process known as the torus ~ nature’s way of creating and sustaining life.
Ahahaha.
The torus is the regenerative flow of life-force energy found in the human heart, as well as the heart of the Earth, the Sun, and the Milky Way Galaxy. This electromagnetic field is found in atoms, cells, seeds, flowers, trees, animals, humans, hurricanes, planets, suns, galaxies and even the cosmos as a whole.
Stop, stop! : hee hee : You're killin' me here!


"Hey guys. Turns out a torus is a process!"
"No! It's a flow!"


Here comes the Woo train! Woooo Woooo!
 
Ahahaha.

Stop, stop! : hee hee : You're killin' me here!


"Hey guys. Turns out a torus is a process!"
"No! It's a flow!"


Here comes the Woo train! Woooo Woooo!
Gosh yes this is vintage New Age woo. Utter bilge from start to finish. This is more evidence of my contention that Write4U just posts random shit he has found on the internet, without applying any critical faculties to it.
 
Gosh yes this is vintage New Age woo. Utter bilge from start to finish. This is more evidence of my contention that Write4U just posts random shit he has found on the internet, without applying any critical faculties to it.
Every time I try to help him and think he may have actually taken something on board and started to turn a corner, up pops Bohm or some other non related favourite.
 
Every time I try to help him and think he may have actually taken something on board and started to turn a corner, up pops Bohm or some other non related favourite.
Well Bohm's pilot waves are not woo, though by now they are little more than merely a historical curiosity.

But this toroidal "energy" nonsense is real woo all right, complete with the usual amateur fallacy of treating energy is if it is some kind of stuff, with a free-standing existence.
 
Well Bohm's pilot waves are not woo, though by now they are little more than merely a historical curiosity
I meant yet another reference to one of his pets, Bohm this time. Anyway rather than keep complaining I am going to post on a few topics regarding Black holes and observations, early galaxy data, a Nova event due in the next week or so and Rocket fuel!
 
Yes, the toroid pattern is very much part of our universe. And if we can observe it in many galaxies, why should that not be an object of interest to science?

The Regenerative Flow of Nature
What if you could tap into a natural, organic flow of energy in your business, community or initiative that is life-giving, self-organizing, self-sustaining, coherent at any scale, abundant, and connected to the limitless potential of the universe?

The Torus


View attachment 5936

Self-Sustaining and Scalable​


more...https://medium.com/grail-leadership/the-regenerative-flow-of-nature-98024007f8e0
Apologies for calling you an idiot. That was bad form on my part.
 
I meant yet another reference to one of his pets, Bohm this time. Anyway rather than keep complaining I am going to post on a few topics regarding Black holes and observations, early galaxy data, a Nova event due in the next week or so and Rocket fuel!
Good plan, look forward to that, I’m not much up on black holes. I still struggle with why only one member of a particle/anti-particle pair is captured by the black hole, in Hawking radiation.
 
I still struggle with why only one member of a particle/anti-particle pair is captured by the black hole, in Hawking radiation.
By sheer happenstance of distance from the EH.
In most cases, both will be captured or neither will be captured.
But a small fraction will pop into existence so close to the EH that - due to their initially diverging trajectories - one will fall in and one will escape.

1720632294596.png
 
By sheer happenstance of distance.
In most cases, both will be captured or neither will be captured.
But a small fraction will pop into existence so close to the EH that one will be captured and the other will not.
Cheers Dave, that clears that up!
 
By sheer happenstance of distance.
In most cases, both will be captured or neither will be captured.
But a small fraction will pop into existence so close to the EH that one will be captured and the other will not.
Problem I have is that in order to understand Hawking radiation one needs to be well versed in QFT.
Also GR and QM.
A student cannot understand GR without understanding SR and Riemann geometry, tensors, classical field theory and all that malarkey.

In order to tackle QM, Riemann geometry, tensors, metrics, field theory etc a student needs a grounding in calculus, linear algebra and classical mechanics.

I tried. I got SOME stuff. Some. It's hard, very hard.
 
It should be noted that even Hawking said to take this simplistic description with a grain of salt. It's a little more complicated than that in a way that mere words and analogies don't do justice. As always, it comes down to the math.

[EDIT] Yeah. What Pinball said there.
 
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