Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
What phenomenon? Recall that we're arguing about whether there are any alien spaceships. You're already with Buck Rogers in the 25th century. You skipped a lot of steps.
Actually we who have studied hundreds of cases of ufos AREN'T arguing whether ufos are alien space ships. We are simply studying the nature of the phenomena as it presents itself, which is that of a craft that travels and accelerates at tremendous speeds, is often tracked on radar, emits huge amounts of energy, and often lands leaving traces on the ground and vegetation as well as physical effects on eyewitness.
Does it? How did you measure this?
With radar.
Is that what it suggests?
Tell me: what physical mechanism do you have in mind, exactly, to manipulate mass itself in the form of the Higgs field?
Do I look like an alien? Ask them.
Or are you just making up stuff about the Higgs field? Is sounding good enough for you, or do you actually care as to whether such a thing might be possible or impossible?
I'm providing a plausible explanation within the confines of modern physics theory. It is all speculation at this point until we actually find one of these craft and reverse engineer it.
Thanks for proving my point. Obviously you don't care whether any of your claims are testable. What matters is that you have a good story that makes you happy and fits what you already believe.
Not all claims need to be testable. Sometimes the explanatory power of the theory is enough, like with Darwin and Einstein. Their theories weren't immediately testable. Yet look how we accepted them nonetheless.
Really? Show me some of the evidence you're relying on that shows sudden enormous accelerations, for example. Show me how you determined those accelerations.
Great! Show me the evidence.
"The Belgian UFO wave began in November 1989. The events of 29 November would be documented by no less than thirty different groups of witnesses, and three separate groups of police officers. All of the reports related a large object flying at low altitude. The craft was of a flat, triangular shape, with lights underneath. This giant craft did not make a sound as it slowly moved across the landscape of Belgium. There was free sharing of information as the Belgian populace tracked this craft as it moved from the town of Liege to the border of the Netherlands and Germany.[1]
The Belgian UFO wave peaked with the events of the night of 30–31 March 1990. On that night, unknown objects were tracked on radar, chased by two Belgian Air Force F-16s, photographed, and were sighted by an estimated 13,500 people on the ground – 2,600 of whom filed written statements describing in detail what they had seen.[2] Following the incident, the Belgian air force released a report detailing the events of that night.
At around 23:00 on 30 March, the supervisor for the Control Reporting Center (CRC) at Glons received reports that three unusual lights were seen moving towards Thorembais-Gembloux, which lies to the southeast of Brussels. The lights were reported to be brighter than stars, changing color between red, green and yellow, and appeared to be fixed at the vertices of an equilateral triangle. At this point, Glons CRC requested the Wavre gendarmerie send a patrol to confirm the sighting.
Approximately 10 minutes later, a second set of lights was sighted moving towards the first triangle. By around 23:30, the Wavre gendarmerie had confirmed the initial sightings and Glons CRC had been able to observe the phenomenon on radar. During this time, the second set of lights, after some erratic manoeuvres, had also formed themselves into a smaller triangle. After tracking the targets and after receiving a second radar confirmation from the Traffic Center Control at Semmerzake, Glons CRC gave the order to scramble two F-16 fighters from Beauvechain Air Base shortly before midnight. Throughout this time, the phenomenon was still clearly visible from the ground, with witnesses describing the whole formation as maintaining their relative positions while moving slowly across the sky. Witnesses also reported two dimmer lights towards the municipality of Eghezee displaying similar erratic movements to the second set of lights.
Over the next hour, the two scrambled F-16s attempted nine separate interceptions of the targets. On three occasions, they managed to obtain a radar lock for a few seconds but each time the targets changed position and speed so rapidly that the lock was broken. During the first radar lock, the target accelerated from 240 km/h to over 1,770 km/h while changing altitude from 2,700 m to 1,500 m, then up to 3,350 m before descending to almost ground level – the first descent of more than 900 m taking less than two seconds. Similar manoeuvres were observed during both subsequent radar locks. On no occasion were the F-16 pilots able to make visual contact with the targets and at no point, despite the speeds involved, was there any indication of a sonic boom. Moreover, narrator Robert Stack added in an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, the sudden changes in acceleration and deceleration would have been fatal to one or more human pilots.
During this time, ground witnesses broadly corroborate the information obtained by radar. They described seeing the smaller triangle completely disappear from sight at one point, while the larger triangle moved upwards very rapidly as the F-16s flew past. After 00:30, radar contact became much more sporadic and the final confirmed lock took place at 00:40. This final lock was once again broken by an acceleration from around 160 km/h to 1,120 km/h, after which the radar of the F-16s and those at Glons and Semmerzake all lost contact. Following several further unconfirmed contacts, the F-16s eventually returned to base shortly after 01:00.
The final details of the sighting were provided by the members of the Wavre gendarmerie who had been sent to confirm the original report. They describe four lights now being arranged in a square formation, all making short jerky movements, before gradually losing their luminosity and disappearing in four separate directions at around 01:30."===https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave
"On the evening of May 25, 1995 America West Flight 564 was flying at an altitude of about 39,000 ft close to Bovina, Texas. While observing lightning outside the plane, the attendant noticed a peculiar set of flickering lights a little bit below the 757. The First Officer was alerted to the phenomena, he immediately saw the lights which he described as eight bright blue strobes. As the rest of the flight crew watched the flashing lights, they could discern the object as being cigar-shaped. The pilots estimated it to be between 300 and 400 ft long. The object could not be seen on the FAA’s radar. The following day the controllers checked with NORAD and discovered that they tracked an unknown object the previous evening that appeared to be stationary, but would accelerate and stop time and time again at high speeds. These quick sprints were estimated between 1,000 and 1,400 mph. The object was also seen by a US Air Force pilot manning an EF 111A. To date, the incident remains unsolved."====http://listverse.com/2013/06/06/10-mysterious-ufo-incidents-confirmed-by-radar/
Here's a classic case of ufos tracked by multiple ground based and pilot radars:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc629.htm
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