Ban on trans fats in eateries ?
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Roman said:
Can't get more vegetarian than the Indians.
Anyway I just checked the Godrej website.
Apparently they still produce a semi-hydrogenated fat, so the option is available, not banned, though I haven't seen it myself
http://www.godrejinds.com/foods/product_edibleoils.htm
Sam,
Two things.
1.) It seems that the health of the individual is what is under discussion here.
2.) Try banning wallowing in the filth of the Ganges River and see what kind of response you get...
You do realize that shortening is used in the home as well? And not just as a marital aid either...
Roman,
Forgot about butter.
But, that comes with its own health problems, aye? As does lard? Is pewwwwwfa the only healthy alternative? If so, then it's curtains for crackers.
Heh. This is funny considering the stink about skinny models going on right now.
Two things.
1.) It seems that the health of the individual is what is under discussion here.
2.) Try banning wallowing in the filth of the Ganges River and see what kind of response you get...
You do realize that shortening is used in the home as well? And not just as a marital aid either...
Roman,
Forgot about butter.
But, that comes with its own health problems, aye? As does lard? Is pewwwwwfa the only healthy alternative? If so, then it's curtains for crackers.
Heh. This is funny considering the stink about skinny models going on right now.
invert_nexus said:
No its not the health of the individual, if only one guy was getting fat no one would really care.
What is shortening?
And we're immune to the filth in the Ganges , btw.
edit: okay, I use oil or butter for baking here in the US.
For pies and all, I use clarified butter.
We don't bake much in India.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortening
Hydrogenated vegetable oil. Although, it can be made from lard as well....
Would you ban baking next?
invert_nexus said:
I bake a lot here, just don't use shortening.
Roasting meats etc is easier in the oven, cakes can be made with oil or butter, so can cookies or muffins.
Meat pies are great with butter. I don't eat a lot of sweets, so not much else.
Try it.
Thank me later.
Your loss.
By the way, just read that shortening article on wikipedia and the author of that page disagrees with you on the unhealthy aspects of trans fats.
Says the FDA only caved to activists and even so maintain in their report that: "nformation on trans fat content in foods is limited ... information on trans fat intake is limited, ... but average saturated fat intake in the United States is about 5 times greater than average trans fat intake ... and the rate of heart disease mortality and morbidity in the United States has been decreasing for several decades."
Hmm.
Also.
They estimate that from a recent law marking trans fats on foods, some 250 to 500 lives will be saved every year.
Woohoo!!!
That's like... nothing. More people could probably be saved every year from a public education campaign teaching people the unhealthy side effects of holding in your farts.
And sure as shit more people could be saved by effective education on healthy living.
But, that's America for you.
Get some stinky hippies in the streets smoking pot and smelling bad and people listen.
By the way, just read that shortening article on wikipedia and the author of that page disagrees with you on the unhealthy aspects of trans fats.
Says the FDA only caved to activists and even so maintain in their report that: "nformation on trans fat content in foods is limited ... information on trans fat intake is limited, ... but average saturated fat intake in the United States is about 5 times greater than average trans fat intake ... and the rate of heart disease mortality and morbidity in the United States has been decreasing for several decades."
Hmm.
Also.
They estimate that from a recent law marking trans fats on foods, some 250 to 500 lives will be saved every year.
Woohoo!!!
That's like... nothing. More people could probably be saved every year from a public education campaign teaching people the unhealthy side effects of holding in your farts.
And sure as shit more people could be saved by effective education on healthy living.
But, that's America for you.
Get some stinky hippies in the streets smoking pot and smelling bad and people listen.
invert_nexus said:
Hmm of course, a guy writing on a wiki page on shortening is obviously the best authority on health effects of trans fats.
Moi, merely ten years in post graduate nutrition, studying diet and effects on obesity and disease, obviously wasting my time.
http://intl.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/4/1006S
And from the wiki page:
Non-hydrogenated shortening containing no trans fats has grown in usage.
Why?
edit: also substitution of trans fats with PUFA reverses the lipid profile.
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Here are some studies on trans fats and effects on plasma membrane functions, especially insulin sensitivity and fatty acid composition
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...pubmed&from_uid=15789505&itool=ExternalSearch
The scientific basis for TFA regulations-is it sufficient? Comments from the USA.
* Willett WC.
Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA. wwillett@hsph.harvard.edu
We presently have definitive evidence from multiple randomized trials that trans-fatty acids (TFA) have adverse effects on blood lipids, near definitive evidence that TFA increase inflammatory markers in blood, and strong evidence from prospective epidemiologic studies that high TFA intake is associated elevated risks of coronary heart disease. Food additives should be allowed to be used only if there is reasonable certainty of no harm. Thus, the present US Food and Drug Administration position of allowing TFA in the food supply is indefensible, and large numbers of Americans are dying prematurely because of its failure to act to responsibly.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16716766&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...pubmed&from_uid=15789505&itool=ExternalSearch
The scientific basis for TFA regulations-is it sufficient? Comments from the USA.
* Willett WC.
Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA. wwillett@hsph.harvard.edu
We presently have definitive evidence from multiple randomized trials that trans-fatty acids (TFA) have adverse effects on blood lipids, near definitive evidence that TFA increase inflammatory markers in blood, and strong evidence from prospective epidemiologic studies that high TFA intake is associated elevated risks of coronary heart disease. Food additives should be allowed to be used only if there is reasonable certainty of no harm. Thus, the present US Food and Drug Administration position of allowing TFA in the food supply is indefensible, and large numbers of Americans are dying prematurely because of its failure to act to responsibly.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16716766&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_DocSum
I never really meant to imply the wikipedia as an infallible source. Just found it interesting that the guy disagrees so heartily. Plus, with the portions of the FDA report and all...
You might consider signing up to wikipedia and duking it out with the guy. I'm sure you'll win seeing as how trans fats are so politically bad these days anyway.
Oh. Wait. I mean, since all the scientific evidence points to trans fats being a killer....
(Heh. Really. I have no idea on the subject. I'm not into nutrition studies at all. I'm only here because of the issues of freedom.)
Obviously. What are you going to do when you graduate? Nurse annorexic cheerleaders back to health? (Kidding.)
Anyway.
I thought your name was Sam and your last name had something to do with Cdkey? Are you one of the two listed authors? Oughta be careful about letting out your real name. Some of the guys here, I'm sure, still remember your boobs you'd posted momentarily a while back...
Mmm. A moment for reflection.
(Still wish I'd had the foresight to steal a copy before you removed it...)
Ok.
Harvard, eh?
How hoity toity.
Smelly hippie effect?
But does it give your pies that oh so flaky crust that is to die for?
Do you think that if people would get off their fat asses and exercise a little that they could then handle some trans fats without keeling over from heart attack? That is, are the trans fats poison in themselves or do they just make you a lardass? (hydrogenated vegetable oil ass...)
invert_nexus said:
Trans fat are isomers of naturally occuring essential fatty acids (those which cannot be produced by the body). These are primarily linoleic and linolenic acids.
These fatty acids, known as omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids play a role in maintaining plasma membrane fluidity (in association with cholesterol) which is required for proper cell trafficking, they also play a role in the regulation of inflammatory cytokines associated with everything from cancer to heart disease to diabetes to auto immune disease.
They are also involved as precursors of the products involved in regulating fever, reproduction, bone growth, muscle strength and everything that you can lay on essential fats.
Being isomers, they are structurally different and replace the cis isomers in the body inefficiently, so they are unable to duplicate their function exactly or may initiate a parallel pathway (since trans fats are also present in nature in small amounts).
The problem is that you need to replace a lot of membrane fats to see an adverse effect, the fastest effects are seen in the fat that is turned over the fastest, i.e the LDL and HDL cholesterol. These show definitive changes.
To see the accumulative effects of trans fats may require a few generations, depending on exposure to the amount of fatty acids from trans sources.
By then of course, a large segment of the population will already be adversely affected.
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invert_nexus said:
I'm very sensitive. Better watch it next time.
Don't need to get addicted to another pastime right now.
I'm compulsive. If I get on wiki, you'll see me editing all the entries.
No idea. I'm only into it for the science.
He's the authority on the subject. I want to be sure its a source I recognise.
Can't add no more smilies.
depends on how many layers you roll it into.
Sam,
What you say about trans fats being dangerous because of their difference in shape to cis fats makes sense, however, why would these trans fats build up to dangerous levels when intake of cis fats outweighs the intake of trans fats by at least a factor of 6 (as stated in the FDA report concerning saturated fat)?
Also, there are natural trans fats in cow's milk as well as other sources that do not seem to have the unhealthy side effects ascribed to hydrogenated vegetable oils?
Another thing that bothers me is why are hydrogenated vegetable oils so bad? Maybe I'm forgetting something I've already read or that you've already gone on over here (it's early), but wouldn't the unhydrogenated versions of these oils also be trans fats?
Are they simply not dangerous because they're not used or not used as much? The hydrogenation process doesn't transform cis fats to trans fats, does it?
There's an article in the 15th September Science on the role of fatty acids in liver regeneration. Haven't managed to make it all the way through yet. Seems interesting. Unintuitive, to a layman, at least.
What you say about trans fats being dangerous because of their difference in shape to cis fats makes sense, however, why would these trans fats build up to dangerous levels when intake of cis fats outweighs the intake of trans fats by at least a factor of 6 (as stated in the FDA report concerning saturated fat)?
Also, there are natural trans fats in cow's milk as well as other sources that do not seem to have the unhealthy side effects ascribed to hydrogenated vegetable oils?
Another thing that bothers me is why are hydrogenated vegetable oils so bad? Maybe I'm forgetting something I've already read or that you've already gone on over here (it's early), but wouldn't the unhydrogenated versions of these oils also be trans fats?
Are they simply not dangerous because they're not used or not used as much? The hydrogenation process doesn't transform cis fats to trans fats, does it?
There's an article in the 15th September Science on the role of fatty acids in liver regeneration. Haven't managed to make it all the way through yet. Seems interesting. Unintuitive, to a layman, at least.
invert_nexus said:
Its all relative.
How much total fat would you normally consume?
In a primitive diet with fruits, seeds, nuts?
Barely 10%, If you added meat at the most, (if you ate a lot of lard), 20-30%.
Right now our LOWER limits are set at 30%.
Ideally fat intake should be less than 30% with less than 10% of it from saturated fats.
There is a balance between the amount of omega-6 and omega-3 in the body.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12442909&dopt=Abstract
What we have done is exponentially increased the consumption of omega-6 (present in seeds) and decreased the omega-3 (present in stems and marine oils).
So the balance is already awry.
Naturally occurring fats are liquid or semisolid at room temperature and contribute fluidity to plasma membranes. The unsaturated bonds are essential parts of their structural functionality ( the membrane mosaic, they hold different membrane proteins in configuration). One would hypothesise that changes in structure would inevitably lead to changes in function.
Naturally occuring trans fats in cows milk are not so "naturally occurring" since fatty acid compostion of milk reflects fatty acid composition of feed. So its all down to our manipulation of the system actually. Just like us, cows also ingest trans fats through manufactured feeds enriched with hydrogenated fats.
edit: as to the adverse effects of trans fats, since they are functionally different from cis fats they may not be got rid off as easily and may accumulate over time, since, as I said, it takes long term intake to see adverse effeects. All processing of fats (including lipolysis, which gets rid of it) is defined by structure.
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Another thing that should be banned is trousers, something like 1% of household accidents involve trousers.
BAN TROUSERS NOW!!!!
For you yanks, trousers are what hang from your suspenders, only we call them braces and what you have on tour teeth is a brace(singular). Suspenders are what women wear to keep up their stockings. We say tamarto you say tamaaata and so on and so forth.
BAN TROUSERS NOW!!!!
For you yanks, trousers are what hang from your suspenders, only we call them braces and what you have on tour teeth is a brace(singular). Suspenders are what women wear to keep up their stockings. We say tamarto you say tamaaata and so on and so forth.
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Exactly. I demand my government make a special agency to protect me from myself.Satyr said: