Atmospheric Pressures and Gravity

[RiffRaff]

Just an FYI, scientists actually said "we are missing something". Could you imagine having a PhD and saying
"We don't have all of the answers"? And yet some scientists have said that. The textbook will not have the answer.
Google does not have it nor does Wikipedia.
What happens when nobody knows the answer and this includes both Google and Wikipedia? I'm open to suggestions.

 

[RiffRaff]

Did this video take any work?

 

[billvon]

Are you guys aware that scientists are trying to figure out why PSCs (polar stratospheric clouds) which help to
create the hole in the ozone layer only occur when it's cold enough? This gets into atmospheric pressures and gravity.

No, it doesn't. The total weight of the elements in the compounds you listed does not change, so they change neither pressure nor total gravity.

And to understand this, it helps to understand what 8^0 = 1 means.

?? It's simply an erroneous equation. Simple.

A guy named Alan Bauldree of Homer, Louisiana is my teacher. I have to prove to him that I deserve a life in the U.S. I'll be asking for sanctuary.

Good luck!

 

[billvon]

Just an FYI, scientists actually said "we are missing something". Could you imagine having a PhD and saying "We don't have all of the answers"?

Every PhD I know says that.

 

[RiffRaff]

Every PhD I know says that.

Every PhD I know says that.

And at the same time you guys say 8^0 = 1. I'm aware of that. How do you think I realized
Venus is 66,992,000 miles or 107,810,000km.

Earth is 91,404,000 miles or 150,000,000km

Mars is 142,000,000 miles or 222,450,000km

The distance further from the Sun than Venus is

Earth ; 1.3644, squared = 1.8616

Mars; 2.1197, squared = 4.4931

When factored f(x) = 93/(1 + 10.33)^x = y

Earth; 93/(1 + 10.33)^1.8616 = 1.0137 bars, actual; 1.013 bars

Mars; 93/(1 + 10.33)^4.4931 = 1.705 millibars, actual; 6.518 millibars

And yet guys insist that you're helping me when none of the work you guys can do comes close to this.

Notice how I am using exponents with f(x) = ∫ Δy/Δx? And all you guys can say is 8^0 = 1. When I ask
why is it 1, you guys give the same answer, because you say so. That is how you discuss math and science,
right? You say this is what we say and you will learn to be obedient to us because we are teaching you.
And yet none of you guys can consider why the atmospheric pressures of Venus, Earth and Mars all have
a mathematical relationship that starts with g = (6.6743 ± 0.00015) x10^–11)(1.9891 × 1030 kilograms/r^2.
This is very basic math and I know you guys can do it so show me. And did you guys notice the exponent 10^-11
and the one that is 10^30? You guys got this! I believe in you guys!
Then again maybe you guys aren't very familiar with math or science?

It doesn't seem that anyone is capable of discussing why or how the Sun's gravitational field could have
pretty much the same effect on 3 different planet's atmospheric pressures. All that can be said is 8^0 = 1.

p.s., With f(x) = ∫ 93/(1 + 10.33)^x = y, the lower limit for the integral would be -∞ and the upper limit would be
+∞. Those would be theoretical limits while I prefer using the actual orbits of planets to estimate atmospheric
pressures. This is because the orbits of the planets changes as the planets orbit the Sun.

p.s., Even on quora.com it's not possible to get people to consider the math.

 

[billvon]

And at the same time you guys say 8^0 = 1.

Oh and that's not the worst of it! We also say that 1+1=2, and that the sine of 30 degrees is .5.

And yet none of you guys can consider why the atmospheric pressures of Venus, Earth and Mars all have
a mathematical relationship that starts with g = (6.6743 ± 0.00015) x10^–11)(1.9891 × 1030 kilograms/r^2.

Now do Mercury and Jupiter!

 

[origin]

And all you guys can say is 8^0 = 1. When I ask
why is it 1, you guys give the same answer, because you say so.

Come on now, you know that is a lie! I think there are at least 2 times members showed you mathematically why that is true,

 

[James R]

RiffRaff:

Are you still ignoring my posts? Why have you not replied to me, including to the many direct questions I have asked you?

To ignore certain posts, as you do, while also claiming that nobody has tried to have a conversation with you, strikes me as dishonest. Is this the best you can do?

You guys have been posting what I know.

Why did you make so many errors, then, if you know all that maths stuff?

Were your mistakes just accidental? Mere sloppiness and lack of attention on your part?

Will you be more careful in future?

I find you guys to be hostile.

We're helping you by pointing out simple mistakes, so that you can avoid repeating them in future posts and in discussions you might have with other people in the future.

You still haven't thanked me anybody here for helping you. That seems churlish, impolite and ungrateful of you, at a minimum, and verging on dishonest at the worst.

When I realized f(x) = 93/(1+ 9.65)^x = y, that shows what?

I wanted to explore that with you.

I asked you a number of specific, direct, questions about that formula. I even helpfully tried to clarify it a little. But you didn't want to discuss it with me. You ignored my questions and my post on that.

And now, here you are, complaining that nobody wants to talk to you about your formula.

It's not very honest of you, RiffRaff.

Is this the best you can do?

And you guys require me to give a textbook answer.

Who asked you for a textbook answer? Please don't tell lies, RiffRaff.

The textbook answer did not allow me to find a mathematical relationship
between the atmospheric pressures of 3 planets.

How did you find it, then? I asked before, but you weren't interested in discussing it.

Do you want to discuss it with me now?

Why it's a waste of time for me to post in here.

Why are you still here, if this is such a waste of your valuable time?

I did not make statements that were incorrect.

Several people here - myself included - have demonstrated that you made a number of errors.

In fact, you yourself previously admitted that you made at least one mistake.

So, please don't tell lies, RiffRaff. Try to be a better man.

What you guys are saying is that I am only allowed to discuss what you guys want to discuss so that you can say that you are teaching me.

Who said that? Please don't tell lies, RiffRaff.

You guys have shown that you're not capable of discussing anything.

Hardly. You're the one who doesn't want to have a discussion. It seems to me that you just want to complain about being persecuted by various people. You're looking hard for excuses to play the victim.

Remember, you came to us. We didn't come to you. If you didn't want a conversation, why did you choose to sign up to a discussion forum?

Mt scientific calculator works just fine.

I'm sure it does. TI calculators usually work just fine, in the right hands.

What you guys have failed to show me is that you can apply the inverse square law to science.

Did you forget the part where I walked you through what inverse square law means, giving the example of $g=GM/r^2$?

Tell me, RiffRaff: how did I fail to show you that I can apply the inverse square law?

I think people in non-English speaking countries will find it funny when I tried discussing how the inverse square law can be used to show a mathematical relationship between the atmospheric pressures of 3 planets.

Are you making the excuse that English isn't your first language, now?

But aren't you an American?

Then you guys said you want to teach me how exponents work because the implication is that I'm stupid for posting in here.

You still haven't acknowledged that $8^0=1$. Just post that you agree that it does, and I'll happily move on.

Why have you not addressed this simple matter? Why do you keep ignoring it?

I think Texas Instruments will find what you guys have been saying is absurd...

Are you going to contact TI to tell them that their calculator is wrong, because it says $8^0=1$, rather than $8^0=0$ (as you claim)?

If you do, and they respond, can you please post their response here? That will be good for a laugh.

Are you guys aware that scientists are trying to figure out why PSCs (polar stratospheric clouds) which help to create the hole in the ozone layer only occur when it's cold enough?

No. I wasn't aware of that. What are the scientists' current working hypotheses?

This gets into atmospheric pressures and gravity. And to understand this, it helps to understand what 8^0 = 1 means.

What does $8^0=1$ mean, RiffRaff? Can you tell me what it means?

And if you want to figure out compound interest then what I used to find a relationship
between atmospheric pressures is something a banker could've done.
A guy named Alan Bauldree of Homer, Louisiana is my teacher. I have to prove to him that I deserve a life in the U.S.

I thought you said you wanted to leave the US. (?)

 

[James R]

And at the same time you guys say 8^0 = 1. I'm aware of that.

You're aware of what we say, but do you agree that it is correct?

Please tell us, because you're not being very clear.

And yet guys insist that you're helping me when none of the work you guys can do comes close to this.

How do you know? You haven't asked any of us about the work we can do.

And all you guys can say is 8^0 = 1. When I ask why is it 1, you guys give the same answer, because you say so.

Now now, RiffRaff. You really shouldn't tell lies. When you do that enough times, people start to get a bit annoyed with you. You also lose credibility when you tell lies that are very easily exposed. Do it enough and people start to think that, maybe, you're generally a dishonest person.

So, I'm going to ask you, just once: did I, or did I not, give you any reasons why $8^0=1$?

I'd like you to acknowledge that I gave you some reasons. Can you bring yourself to do that, even if you can't bring yourself to thank me for trying to help you?

Please don't ignore this request of mine, RiffRaff. If you do, I might have to conclude that you're knowingly telling lies, rather than making innocent, silly mistakes.

That is how you discuss math and science, right?

Yes. Ideally, discussion about science and mathematics happens in a cordial conversation, in which the participants all acknowledge what each participant and has to say, even when they disagree. Also, participants who make mistakes typically admit their mistakes when they are made clear to them, and they try not to repeat the same mistakes more than once. The best discussions occur when all participants are honest and open to revising their ideas in the light of better arguments and/or evidence.

You say this is what we say and you will learn to be obedient to us because we are teaching you.

Look, RiffRaff. You made some silly, basic errors. If you're man enough to admit that you made them, we'll all be very happy to move on to more substantive discussions. But when you ignore things and tell lies, that puts up barriers to further fruitful discussions.

Do you understand?

And yet none of you guys can consider why the atmospheric pressures of Venus, Earth and Mars all have
a mathematical relationship that starts with g = (6.6743 ± 0.00015) x10^–11)(1.9891 × 1030 kilograms/r^2.
This is very basic math and I know you guys can do it so show me. And did you guys notice the exponent 10^-11
and the one that is 10^30? You guys got this! I believe in you guys!

Nobody here has questioned the value of $G$ or the mass of the Sun, RiffRaff. We've got this, I assure you. There's no need for you to worry.

Then again maybe you guys aren't very familiar with math or science?

Maybe. Or maybe you're wrong and some of us are very familiar with math or science? How will you tell the difference, RiffRaff?

It doesn't seem that anyone is capable of discussing why or how the Sun's gravitational field could have
pretty much the same effect on 3 different planet's atmospheric pressures.

Yourself included, apparently.

p.s., With f(x) = ∫ 93/(1 + 10.33)^x = y, the lower limit for the integral would be -∞ and the upper limit would be +∞.

Why are you integrating? What is the quantity y in that expression?

Those would be theoretical limits while I prefer using the actual orbits of planets to estimate atmospheric
pressures.

That's an interesting point. Does the ellipticity of the actual orbits result in variations in air pressure over the course of the planetary year? How does this factor into your formula?

This is because the orbits of the planets changes as the planets orbit the Sun.

Which particular variations have you taken into account?

p.s., Even on quora.com it's not possible to get people to consider the math.

Well, you don't have to worry about that here. We're all good at math here.

 

[RiffRaff]

RiffRaff:



You still haven't acknowledged that $8^0=1$. Just post that you agree that it does, and I'll happily move on.

When f(x) = 93/( 1 + 10.33)^x = y. What is the 93 bars of Venus' atmospheric pressure being divided by? Any ideas?
It needs to be divided by 1, otherwise the equation is worthless. How would I have (1 + 10.33)^x = 1? I just don't know.

With PSCs (polar stratospheric clouds), https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2020RG000702
With my experiment https://climate-cycling.com/cold-fusion if successful will show how CO2 and CH4 are helping the
ozone layer to recover, CO2 + H2O > CH2O + O2 for the ozone layer. Then 2CH2O > CO2 + CH4.
Side bar, middle of page, read;
Carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrous oxide (N2O), and methane (CH4) are each important to climate forcing and to the levels of stratospheric ozone (see
Chapter 2). In terms of the globally averaged ozone column, additional N2O leads to lower ozone levels, whereas additional CO2 and CH4 lead to higher
ozone levels. Ozone depletion to date would have been greater if not for the historical increases in CO2 and CH4.
https://csl.noaa.gov/assessments/ozone/2014/summary/ch5.html
And that might help them to better understand the chemistry of how some gasses occur at very cold temperatures. And
it will help me to have a life in another country. It's possible once out of the U.S. I'll just avoid
English speaking countries all together. As my siblings have shown, being "pure" English speaking people they were
able to fit in in the U.S. with no problems. They also did not like me or our father. Ever have Christmas cancelled
because "pure" English speaking children would not eat with people that had Norwegian accents at Christmas? Their father
received a Christmas present from his mother 2 years in a row. It was a sausage and cheese wheel. When he said come and
eat this with me, I was the only son that did. It happened and as "shipmates" in the Navy said, I wasn't one of them so they
wanted me to have the worst assignments which happened. As a result I suffered a 50% hearing loss in one ear. But I'm not
able to prove I deserve a life in the U.S. to Americans.

 

[James R]

RiffRaff:

You ignored a lot of what I wrote to you, including direct questions about your "work", again. Why?

When f(x) = 93/( 1 + 10.33)^x = y. What is the 93 bars of Venus' atmospheric pressure being divided by? Any ideas?
It needs to be divided by 1, otherwise the equation is worthless. How would I have (1 + 10.33)^x = 1? I just don't know.

That suggests that your formula doesn't work for Venus, where you would have $x=1$.

In other words, so far, your formula only works for Earth and Mars. And since the number 10.33 is, as far as I can tell, a free parameter, it's not hard to finagle the formula to give the "correct" answer for any 2 data points.

Have you decided whether you believe that $8^0=1$ yet, or not?

With my experiment https://climate-cycling.com/cold-fusion if successful will show how CO2 and CH4 are helping the
ozone layer to recover, CO2 + H2O > CH2O + O2 for the ozone layer. Then 2CH2O > CO2 + CH4.

Okay. Let's assume you're correct, for the sake of argument, so that adding lots more CO2 to the atmosphere is great for ozone layer recovery.

Are you suggesting this is what should be done then? Increase fossil fuel burning, to put more CO2 into the atmosphere?

 

[RiffRaff]

RiffRaff:

You ignored a lot of what I wrote to you, including direct questions about your "work", again. Why?

That suggests that your formula doesn't work for Venus, where you would have $x=1$.

In other words, so far, your formula only works for Earth and Mars. And since the number 10.33 is, as far as I can tell, a free parameter, it's not hard to finagle the formula to give the "correct" answer for any 2 data points.

Have you decided whether you believe that $8^0=1$ yet, or not?

Okay. Let's assume you're correct, for the sake of argument, so that adding lots more CO2 to the atmosphere is great for ozone layer recovery.

Are you suggesting this is what should be done then? Increase fossil fuel burning, to put more CO2 into the atmosphere?

And you just proved you don't understand math. Thank You!!! for saving me the trouble.
When f(x) = 93/(1 + 10.33)^x = y, when x = 0 y = 1 then 93/1 = 93. You guys are wanting to say that you taught me n^x = y and when x is 0 y equals 1.
P.S., "n" is any number. Sadly this is typical of forums where people snakk Engelsk. The reality is you don't understand math.

 

[James R]

And you just proved you don't understand math.

No. You did.

When f(x) = 93/(1 + 10.33)^x = y, when x = 0 y = 1 then 93/1 = 93.

That is correct as a mathematical statement, of course, but you forgot where you started, denying that $8^0=1$.

Do you remember how you defined x in the first place?

You said that $x=(d/d_V)^2$, where $d$ is the distance of the planet from the Sun and $d_V$ is the distance of Venus from the Sun. So, for Earth, you said $d/d_V=1.38$ and then $x=1.90$. Then, you plug that value of x into your formula as the exponent and get $y=0.914$, which is supposed to be something to do with the atmospheric pressure of Earth. (It's sort of close to 1 bar, which is approximately the right answer for Earth.)

But your formula does not work for Venus, because in that case $d=d_V$ and therefore $x=1$. Plugging that into your formula gives $f(x)=93/(1+10.33)^1=8.2$, which implied that the pressure on Venus is 8.2 bar, rather than the 93 bar you need it to be.

Really, with so many errors in your maths, don't you think it's time for you to give up trying to do maths - or to learn how to do it properly, RiffRaff?

At the very least, you should stop being so arrogant about your supposed prowess in maths, because - let's face it - you're just not very good at it, yet.

You guys are wanting to say that you taught me n^x = y and when x is 0 y equals 1.

That's what you just agreed is the case. Right? You didn't know before, but now you know. But now that you know, you have a different problem.

P.S., "n" is any number.

Thanks for helpful tip. I would never have understood what you mean without it.

Sadly this is typical of forums where people snakk Engelsk.

This isn't one of those. Here, we speak English.

The reality is you don't understand math.

Oh, come now, RiffRaff. Don't be tiresome. You lost that battle days ago.

 

[RiffRaff]

No. You did.

That is correct as a mathematical statement, of course, but you forgot where you started, denying that $8^0=1$.

Do you remember how you defined x in the first place?

You said that $x=(d/d_V)^2$, where $d$ is the distance of the planet from the Sun and $d_V$ is the distance of Venus from the Sun. So, for Earth, you said $d/d_V=1.38$ and then $x=1.90$. Then, you plug that value of x into your formula as the exponent and get $y=0.914$, which is supposed to be something to do with the atmospheric pressure of Earth. (It's sort of close to 1 bar, which is approximately the right answer for Earth.)

But your formula does not work for Venus, because in that case $d=d_V$ and therefore $x=1$. Plugging that into your formula gives $f(x)=93/(1+10.33)^1=8.2$, which implied that the pressure on Venus is 8.2 bar, rather than the 93 bar you need it to be.

Really, with so many errors in your maths, don't you think it's time for you to give up trying to do maths - or to learn how to do it properly, RiffRaff?

At the very least, you should stop being so arrogant about your supposed prowess in maths, because - let's face it - you're just not very good at it, yet.

That's what you just agreed is the case. Right? You didn't know before, but now you know. But now that you know, you have a different problem.

Thanks for helpful tip. I would never have understood what you mean without it.

This isn't one of those. Here, we speak English.

Oh, come now, RiffRaff. Don't be tiresome. You lost that battle days ago.

Change your ID to Gestapo. My Father knew your father.

 

[RiffRaff]

No. You did.

That is correct as a mathematical statement, of course, but you forgot where you started, denying that $8^0=1$.

Do you remember how you defined x in the first place?

You said that $x=(d/d_V)^2$, where $d$ is the distance of the planet from the Sun and $d_V$ is the distance of Venus from the Sun. So, for Earth, you said $d/d_V=1.38$ and then $x=1.90$. Then, you plug that value of x into your formula as the exponent and get $y=0.914$, which is supposed to be something to do with the atmospheric pressure of Earth. (It's sort of close to 1 bar, which is approximately the right answer for Earth.)

But your formula does not work for Venus, because in that case $d=d_V$ and therefore $x=1$. Plugging that into your formula gives $f(x)=93/(1+10.33)^1=8.2$, which implied that the pressure on Venus is 8.2 bar, rather than the 93 bar you need it to be.

Really, with so many errors in your maths, don't you think it's time for you to give up trying to do maths - or to learn how to do it properly, RiffRaff?

At the very least, you should stop being so arrogant about your supposed prowess in maths, because - let's face it - you're just not very good at it, yet.

That's what you just agreed is the case. Right? You didn't know before, but now you know. But now that you know, you have a different problem.

Thanks for helpful tip. I would never have understood what you mean without it.

This isn't one of those. Here, we speak English.

Oh, come now, RiffRaff. Don't be tiresome. You lost that battle days ago.

And you are openly promoting fascism like Hitler did. And this website supports that Hitler was right. Some people are simply better than others as you have proven.

 

[James R]

Moderator note: RiffRaff has been warned for knowingly telling lies and for insulting another member of sciforums.

 

[James R]

RiffRaff:

I have at no time promoted fascism, openly or otherwise. I find your accusation to be insulting. It is an inappropriate personal attack on me that is entirely unjustified.

I don't appreciate it when you tell lies about me. You should stop that. You should apologise to me for your appallingly rude conduct towards me.

I get it that you're upset that you made some mathmatical errors. You don't want to admit to them. Instead, you want to attack the people who pointed them out to you and who tried to help you to understand why you were wrong. That's disappointing but, sadly, not an unusual reaction from people who have trouble admitting their own mistakes. However, your anger at having your errors pointed out does not give you any special right to make personal attacks or to tell lies. If you cannot understand this, you will be leaving us, one way or another.

Are we clear?