Atlantis was real?
- Thread starter nicholas1M7
- Start date
Where the hell did this fantasy idea come from? Neanderthals with atomic weapons? I don't think that sciforum should be used as somebody's comic book.Novacane said:It's still debateable whether or not the Neanderthals had atomic weopons. I for one think that they 'didn't' have atomic weopons. Clubs maybe.
" Forbidden history" that must be the lady that found human artifacts that dated to 250,000 years old, they closed the dig and wont allow further investigation from what I seen on tv. I think in siberia they dated human artifacts to 300,000 years ago. In california someone found bones, beads and stone tools that date back 70,000 years ago.
Or maybe the lady was upset that she was cut financing so she made up a story to arise contraversy.Kendall said:
Besides who is that they and someone you are talking about? Names, places, details?
Getting your relevant facts from the Tv? Might as well go to a fortune teller.
All your (mis)information up to date has been on the level of yellow press tabloids. To include such in making conclusions...
I read of the artifacts in california in a book on the Bermuda triangle so I dont have any faith in that, it had alot of facts though, this thread was started with the people of atlantis under the water living in a bubble so I wasen't being overly cautious with the sources.
Avatar said:Or maybe the lady was upset that she was cut financing so she made up a story to arise contraversy.
Besides who is that they and someone you are talking about? Names, places, details?
Getting your relevant facts from the Tv? Might as well go to a fortune teller.
All your (mis)information up to date has been on the level of yellow press tabloids. To include such in making conclusions...
Now there is one of the favorite resorts of the bungling debunker. Call the person who tells the story a liar.
It is very likely that Atlantis was Thera, the Minoan civilization. Unfortunately, the city was built on a giant volcano that exploded and destroyed most of their civilization. There was an excellent show about this on the discovery channel. It pointed out the "high tech" that existed in Thera {mainly, plumbing and architecture that was quite advanced for the time}, the likely Egyptian origin of Plato's story, and the Egyptian story of Keftiu that clearly is Thera.
Plato claimed to have learned his story of the sinking of the lost continent of Atlantis from relatives who had passed it down from the great Athenian statesman Solon. Solon had reportedly traveled to Egypt and received his information from Egyptian priests at Sais in 559 B.C.E. The priests told him that the great disaster had taken place almost 10,000 years earlier, almost exactly a factor of ten too large for the eruption of Thera (which occurred around 1500 B.C.E. according to archeological dating or 1627 B.C.E. according to dendrochronology and radiocarbon dating
There are papyrus documents that make references to early contacts between Egypt and a place called Keftiu, which is generally accepted to be Minoan Crete. Keftiu is first mentioned in Egyptian writings dating back to the third millennium B.C.
If Solon had inquired more particularly about Keftiu, he would have been told that it was an island far away in the west. The Ipuwer papyrus uses the phrase, 'as far away as Keftiu.'...If Solon pressed them on the ultimate fate of Keftiu, the priests could certainly have told him that it disappeared from their records around the middle of the XVIII Dynasty [around the time of Tuthmosis III, Hatshepsut, and Amenophis II.
Recent geological examination of the strata of the island of Santorini (the modern name for Thera), reveals that a large open lagoon formed by the volcano's cauldera was present in classical times. This corresponds to Plato's description of Atlantis with its enclosed circular harbor and distinctive rose-colored earth.
There are papyrus documents that make references to early contacts between Egypt and a place called Keftiu, which is generally accepted to be Minoan Crete. Keftiu is first mentioned in Egyptian writings dating back to the third millennium B.C.
If Solon had inquired more particularly about Keftiu, he would have been told that it was an island far away in the west. The Ipuwer papyrus uses the phrase, 'as far away as Keftiu.'...If Solon pressed them on the ultimate fate of Keftiu, the priests could certainly have told him that it disappeared from their records around the middle of the XVIII Dynasty [around the time of Tuthmosis III, Hatshepsut, and Amenophis II.
Recent geological examination of the strata of the island of Santorini (the modern name for Thera), reveals that a large open lagoon formed by the volcano's cauldera was present in classical times. This corresponds to Plato's description of Atlantis with its enclosed circular harbor and distinctive rose-colored earth.
This is an excellent post! Why do you say that if Solon had inquired more about the location of Keftiu that they would have told him "far away in the west"? You are speculating here about its location?
It sounds like you're thinking that what they called Keftiu was the same as Thera.
"This corresponds to Plato's description of Atlantis with its enclosed circular harbor and distinctive rose-colored earth." I don't recall ever reading this description from Plato as being "rose-colored," nor have you described the connection her.
This is a great post Vega. Really! Can you cite any sources to the writings that you are referring to?
Valich,
Thankyou for you interest!
Plato's writings embodied the now lost words of Solon, a Greek ruler who visited Egypt circa 590 BC. Solon sired Critias the Elder, who in turn sired Critias the Younger. As Plato's account was derived from Critias the Younger, it was thus a retelling of the story of Solon, who in turn told the stories that he had heard during his trip to Egypt. So, by this reasoning, any historical search for Atlantis starts with assessing what Solon actually heard in Egypt.
One assumption is that Solon was mainly interested in trade and economics at that time and had little time for stories nor any further details relating to them. But he did make an effort to listen and record some of them from his trip to Egypt.
According to the Egypt legend, Keftiu was an advanced civilization, and was the gateway to and ruler of all of the lands to the far west of Egypt (Greece, Libya, and beyond). Keftiu traded in ivory, copper, and cloth. Keftiu supported hosts of ships and controlled commerce far beyond the Egyptians domain.
By Egyptian record, Keftiu was destroyed by the seas in an apocalypse. It seems likely Solon carried legends of Keftiu to Greece, where he passed it to his son and grandson.
Plato recorded and embellished the story from Solon's grandson Critias the Younger. As in many ancient writings, history and myth were indistinguishably intermixed. Plato probably translated "the land of the pillars which held the sky" (Keftiu) into the land of the titan Atlas (who held the sky). Comparison of ancient Egyptian records of Keftiu identifies a number of similarities to Plato's Atlantis. It seems likely that Plato's Atlantis was a retelling (and renaming) of Egypt's Keftiu.
When Plato identified the location of the land he named Atlantis, he placed it to the west-in the Atlantic Ocean. In reality, Egyptian legend placed Keftiu west of Egypt, not necessarily west of the Mediterranean.
Archaeological records show that the Minoan culture spread its dominion throughout the nearby islands of the Aegean, very roughly from 3000 years BC to about 1400 years BC. Crete, now part of Greece, was the capital for the Minoan people — an advanced civilization with language, commercial shipping, complex architecture, ritual and games.
Plato described Atlantis as alternating rings of sea and land, with a palace in the center "bull's eye". Interestingly, the remnants of post eruption Thera are circular around a deep, wide lagoon, with another small island located in the center of the lagoon. Perhaps Egyptians or other ancient travelers visited Thera long after the volcanic destruction occurred, misinterpreted the geographical remains of the island, and began the legend of the rings of Atlantis. Looking 70 miles south to crescent shaped Crete, the ancient traveler could have easily assumed the ring system of Atlantis reached as far.
Plato speaks of the stone quarried from under Atlantis; "one kind of stone was white, another black, and a third red". The first sight of Thera that modern day tourists see is the sheer cliffs remaining when the rest of the island dropped into the sea, and these cliffs are a breathtaking mix of white, black and red stone. A unique sight in the Aegean world.
The rendition of Atlantis given to Plato was simply another expression of the land of the Gods, Island of Maati which was lost over time. The name Atlantis is an Greek translation of the Egyptian name of the isle of the Gods, the isle of Maati.
Very descriptive references can be found in the "Egyptian book of the dead" about Atlantis translated by E.A. Wallis Budge.
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/egyptian/bookodead/index.html
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/egyptian/bookodead/book3.htm
Keftiu is said to be in the midst of the Great Green Sea. (Its not Crete, we are talking about pre Mediterranean deluge. Crete may have been a lot different I.5 km below its present level.) It could been part of an mainland of the sea at that time.)
It seems that Keftiu was considered to be the pillar at the ends of the earth that held up the sky. (Sounds similar to the description of Atlantis) The worship of sacred pillars was prevalent in Minoan Crete. Plato would have equated this with Atlas from which we get Atlantis. Solon probably misunderstood the Egyptian record of the Minoans (p.56). (It all talks about Eden which is sunken not Crete,)
Note in the representation of the Atlantis or isle of Maati from the egyptian book of the dead
The isle looks like a face looking South towards Egypt.
The Lake looks like the Eye of Horus
We know there were gates across the neck to keep the isle of the Gods protected.
We know there is much copper on Cyprus and can assume much more in the submerged landmass.
The Hidden shrine is submerged on the sunken landmass and has been discovered by the Atlantis 2003 expedition.
The Taut is the name of the city of the Gods.
The Gods live there in the Taut.
A shrine or the Holy mountain exists and is instrumental in the seasons and plantings in connection with the setting of the sun. Perhaps the use of structures in terms of the equinox.
A more intenseive study on the egyptian book of the dead had been done by scholars outling the key references to Atlantis in comparison to Keftiu.
It is certainly a very interested study if you do have the time and patience to decypher the writings.
Thankyou for you interest!
Plato's writings embodied the now lost words of Solon, a Greek ruler who visited Egypt circa 590 BC. Solon sired Critias the Elder, who in turn sired Critias the Younger. As Plato's account was derived from Critias the Younger, it was thus a retelling of the story of Solon, who in turn told the stories that he had heard during his trip to Egypt. So, by this reasoning, any historical search for Atlantis starts with assessing what Solon actually heard in Egypt.
One assumption is that Solon was mainly interested in trade and economics at that time and had little time for stories nor any further details relating to them. But he did make an effort to listen and record some of them from his trip to Egypt.
According to the Egypt legend, Keftiu was an advanced civilization, and was the gateway to and ruler of all of the lands to the far west of Egypt (Greece, Libya, and beyond). Keftiu traded in ivory, copper, and cloth. Keftiu supported hosts of ships and controlled commerce far beyond the Egyptians domain.
By Egyptian record, Keftiu was destroyed by the seas in an apocalypse. It seems likely Solon carried legends of Keftiu to Greece, where he passed it to his son and grandson.
Plato recorded and embellished the story from Solon's grandson Critias the Younger. As in many ancient writings, history and myth were indistinguishably intermixed. Plato probably translated "the land of the pillars which held the sky" (Keftiu) into the land of the titan Atlas (who held the sky). Comparison of ancient Egyptian records of Keftiu identifies a number of similarities to Plato's Atlantis. It seems likely that Plato's Atlantis was a retelling (and renaming) of Egypt's Keftiu.
When Plato identified the location of the land he named Atlantis, he placed it to the west-in the Atlantic Ocean. In reality, Egyptian legend placed Keftiu west of Egypt, not necessarily west of the Mediterranean.
Archaeological records show that the Minoan culture spread its dominion throughout the nearby islands of the Aegean, very roughly from 3000 years BC to about 1400 years BC. Crete, now part of Greece, was the capital for the Minoan people — an advanced civilization with language, commercial shipping, complex architecture, ritual and games.
Plato described Atlantis as alternating rings of sea and land, with a palace in the center "bull's eye". Interestingly, the remnants of post eruption Thera are circular around a deep, wide lagoon, with another small island located in the center of the lagoon. Perhaps Egyptians or other ancient travelers visited Thera long after the volcanic destruction occurred, misinterpreted the geographical remains of the island, and began the legend of the rings of Atlantis. Looking 70 miles south to crescent shaped Crete, the ancient traveler could have easily assumed the ring system of Atlantis reached as far.
Plato speaks of the stone quarried from under Atlantis; "one kind of stone was white, another black, and a third red". The first sight of Thera that modern day tourists see is the sheer cliffs remaining when the rest of the island dropped into the sea, and these cliffs are a breathtaking mix of white, black and red stone. A unique sight in the Aegean world.
The rendition of Atlantis given to Plato was simply another expression of the land of the Gods, Island of Maati which was lost over time. The name Atlantis is an Greek translation of the Egyptian name of the isle of the Gods, the isle of Maati.
Very descriptive references can be found in the "Egyptian book of the dead" about Atlantis translated by E.A. Wallis Budge.
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/egyptian/bookodead/index.html
http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/egyptian/bookodead/book3.htm
Keftiu is said to be in the midst of the Great Green Sea. (Its not Crete, we are talking about pre Mediterranean deluge. Crete may have been a lot different I.5 km below its present level.) It could been part of an mainland of the sea at that time.)
It seems that Keftiu was considered to be the pillar at the ends of the earth that held up the sky. (Sounds similar to the description of Atlantis) The worship of sacred pillars was prevalent in Minoan Crete. Plato would have equated this with Atlas from which we get Atlantis. Solon probably misunderstood the Egyptian record of the Minoans (p.56). (It all talks about Eden which is sunken not Crete,)
Note in the representation of the Atlantis or isle of Maati from the egyptian book of the dead
The isle looks like a face looking South towards Egypt.
The Lake looks like the Eye of Horus
We know there were gates across the neck to keep the isle of the Gods protected.
We know there is much copper on Cyprus and can assume much more in the submerged landmass.
The Hidden shrine is submerged on the sunken landmass and has been discovered by the Atlantis 2003 expedition.
The Taut is the name of the city of the Gods.
The Gods live there in the Taut.
A shrine or the Holy mountain exists and is instrumental in the seasons and plantings in connection with the setting of the sun. Perhaps the use of structures in terms of the equinox.
A more intenseive study on the egyptian book of the dead had been done by scholars outling the key references to Atlantis in comparison to Keftiu.
It is certainly a very interested study if you do have the time and patience to decypher the writings.
eburacum45
Valued Senior Member
I've been to Santorini; beautiful, stunning place.
Perhaps I am biased, but I tend to think that if the story of Atlantis has any basis in fact, the cataclysm of Thera contributed an a very significant way to that story.
Incidentally there is a Minoan town on the island, buried in ash just like Pompei; but it seems likely that most if not all of the population escaped with their lives, as no human remains have been found. These people may have brought the tale to Crete, and eventually, perhaps, Egypt.
Perhaps I am biased, but I tend to think that if the story of Atlantis has any basis in fact, the cataclysm of Thera contributed an a very significant way to that story.
Incidentally there is a Minoan town on the island, buried in ash just like Pompei; but it seems likely that most if not all of the population escaped with their lives, as no human remains have been found. These people may have brought the tale to Crete, and eventually, perhaps, Egypt.
I dont believe santorini was what plato, solon or the egyption priest were talking about, just not far enough back in time for me. The date 1o,500 bc seems to match perfectly with major catacalisms around the globe, the retreating Ice sheets, the extinction of sabertooths, mammaths and others in america and siberia, the rise in sea levels. What I would like to see is a global idea of the amount of till(soil) that has been deposited in the last 50,000 years per area. To get an idea of what has been going on and the time it takes to shift from one enviroment to another, and where to look for ancient civilizations.
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The Egyption priest told solon that the greeks fought off the armys of atlantis and freed their people and alot of others from the rule of atlantis, that the greeks had the fairest constitution since the time of atlantis, and the original greeks were lost under the mediteranian when the sea rose or something like that, so if you believe the Egyption priest, santorini cannot be atlanis.
Plato writes that Atlantis was situated in the ocean, beyond the "Pillars of Hercules". The "Pillars of Hercules" were at Platon's time the Straights of Gibraltar and this would put Atlantis into the Atlantic Ocean. Further, Plato tells that Atlantis was bigger than Libya and Asia together. If one believes Plato literally, Atlantis was then outside of the Mediterranean region. But it is also possible that Solon or Plato either were misinterpreting their old sources or that Plato put it willingly far beyond the Greek-influenced world.
The first possibility could be explained by the fact that the original text was much older and the Pillars of Hercules had not necessarily always been associated with the Straigts of Gibraltar; it could very well have meant a place within the Aegean Sea. The association of pillars could even be an allusion to the giant eruption cloud from the Minoan eruption (almost 40 km high) that undoubtedly was visible in the whole Eastern Mediterranean and virtually reached the sky. How could such a sight be forgotten? Then, there is the connection to the mythical titan Atlas who held the sky upon the shoulders. The idea is temptating.
Putting Atlantis and its civilisation far away from the ancient world would also suit Plato's intention of providing a antitheses to the Greek society and its values that he defends. This is clearly Plato's major purpose in his account. - The same is true for Plato's words, "bigger than Libya and Asia together".
Also it has been interpreted that Plato or someone before him in the chain of the oral or written tradition of the report accidentially changed the very similar Greek words for "bigger than" ("meson") and "between" ("mezon"). If this was the case, Atlantis could be identical with Santorin.
Besides, it is geologically not possible that a large continent could disappear in a dramatic event, i.e. in a very short time span. There is nowhere on earth such evidence.
Also, as far as Archeologists know there is no trace of a highly advanced Athenian culture at around 9000BC. From our knowledge's point of view, 9000 years must be wrong, or invented. Almost certainly.
But the theory that the volcanic desaster of Santorini is the source behind Plato's story of Atlantis is quite supported, in my opinion more than any other theory. Details will remain unclear. For example, some people associate Crete with Atlantis rather than Santorini. This is not opposite to the Santorini theory. Santorini and Crete shared a culture, that dissappeared on Crete about 100 years later than the eruption. Likely, the impacts of the eruption were enormous for the whole region and might have weakened the power of the Minoans on Crete, so that they could not survive for more than 100 years longer. Also, Crete would fit better to some aspects of Atlantis as described by Plato.
Actually it is not very clear from Plato's writings, whether the descibed Metropolis and the larger mainlad of Atlantis are the same geographic place. So, maybe, the mainland was Crete and the Metropolis with its concentric structure of land and sea could have been Santorini. But going further this point, we are stepping into fiction ourselves.
The first possibility could be explained by the fact that the original text was much older and the Pillars of Hercules had not necessarily always been associated with the Straigts of Gibraltar; it could very well have meant a place within the Aegean Sea. The association of pillars could even be an allusion to the giant eruption cloud from the Minoan eruption (almost 40 km high) that undoubtedly was visible in the whole Eastern Mediterranean and virtually reached the sky. How could such a sight be forgotten? Then, there is the connection to the mythical titan Atlas who held the sky upon the shoulders. The idea is temptating.
Putting Atlantis and its civilisation far away from the ancient world would also suit Plato's intention of providing a antitheses to the Greek society and its values that he defends. This is clearly Plato's major purpose in his account. - The same is true for Plato's words, "bigger than Libya and Asia together".
Also it has been interpreted that Plato or someone before him in the chain of the oral or written tradition of the report accidentially changed the very similar Greek words for "bigger than" ("meson") and "between" ("mezon"). If this was the case, Atlantis could be identical with Santorin.
Besides, it is geologically not possible that a large continent could disappear in a dramatic event, i.e. in a very short time span. There is nowhere on earth such evidence.
Also, as far as Archeologists know there is no trace of a highly advanced Athenian culture at around 9000BC. From our knowledge's point of view, 9000 years must be wrong, or invented. Almost certainly.
But the theory that the volcanic desaster of Santorini is the source behind Plato's story of Atlantis is quite supported, in my opinion more than any other theory. Details will remain unclear. For example, some people associate Crete with Atlantis rather than Santorini. This is not opposite to the Santorini theory. Santorini and Crete shared a culture, that dissappeared on Crete about 100 years later than the eruption. Likely, the impacts of the eruption were enormous for the whole region and might have weakened the power of the Minoans on Crete, so that they could not survive for more than 100 years longer. Also, Crete would fit better to some aspects of Atlantis as described by Plato.
Actually it is not very clear from Plato's writings, whether the descibed Metropolis and the larger mainlad of Atlantis are the same geographic place. So, maybe, the mainland was Crete and the Metropolis with its concentric structure of land and sea could have been Santorini. But going further this point, we are stepping into fiction ourselves.
I'm sorry but...
I strongly believed that Atlantis is in Greece,yeah..I just watched the history channel today,the Lost Worlds,and the evidence are pretty mind blowing.. so to all those researchers who are looking in Asia or Africa or wherever that is,are looking in all the wrong places..Atlantis is in GREECE!!!!! :m:
I strongly believed that Atlantis is in Greece,yeah..I just watched the history channel today,the Lost Worlds,and the evidence are pretty mind blowing..
so to all those researchers who are looking in Asia or Africa or wherever that is,are looking in all the wrong places..Atlantis is in GREECE!!!!! :m:Sylvia Brown said that Atlantis would appear again?lol,we'll see..coz I really don't believe in psychics..I see all those shows on court tv about all those psychic detectives,it's pretty interesting but I don't immediately jump into conclusions..and Sylvia Brown is kind of a bull****er,I'm not the only one who thinks so.lol
The cities of what many believe were part of "Atlantis" on Crete, including the palace, etc., many of which are buried under deep ash, are coming to light once again. Advanced cities with 3-story buildings, piped feed-water (clay pipes) and drainage, including indoor bathrooms. Dated to circa 3,500 B.C.
Ironic that they are appearing again, as Sylvia Brown said they would. Lucky guess?
Ironic that they are appearing again, as Sylvia Brown said they would. Lucky guess?