Atheists and the soul

Do you sign?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • No.

    Votes: 10 66.7%
  • Total voters
    15
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spidergoat said:
selling your soul would be doing something that really betrays who you are, and leaves you feeling empty inside, without the will to live.
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All true. As he says; "...ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."
 
DaveC426913 said:
I'm an atheist, but many of my friends and loved ones are not, so I have developed a respect for people and viewpoints that are not my own. Just setting the stage, so you know where I stand and don't have to second-guess any agenda I may have.

I listen to a 70's station a lot, and they play the song 'The Devil Went Down to Georgia', where Johnny bets his soul. It got me thinking.

I do not have a soul. No one does. But do I have the courage of my convictions that I would willingly sign it away, knowing it's an empty contract, written by a fool?

I posit a scenario:

You spend an evening with your friends with good wine and good food, talking about all sorts of philosophical things. You get into an animated discussion with them about the notion of God and souls and you find yourself vehemently and confidently defending your assertions against an onslaught of pro-god arguments (whether they are sincere or merely Devil's Advocate arguments is a matter of how well you know your friends).

As the night wears on, eventually discussion peters out. Your friends all drift off home or to sleep, leaving you with just one close friend. He re-opens the discussion, oddly mischievously, like he's a whole different person than you knew. With a twinkle in his eye, he asks how strong your beliefs really are and, out of his smoking jacket, pulls a scroll and puts it in front of you to read. In a nutshell, it says he will give you riches beyond your wildest dreams of avarice if you simply sign on the dotted line in your own blood. The catch of course, is that the Devil will "take your eternal soul" when you die.

Now, nothing supernatural has actually occurred. I could very well pull that whole thing off as a lark at the upcoming Hallowe'en party. What I'm saying is: this is not a surreal or hypothetical scenario, it could certainly happen, just as I say.

You know he is full of it. He's not the Devil, since the Devil does not exist, and you have no soul, so there's no harm in signing the contract, since there's no such thing as a soul. The only thing he is really asking of you is to demonstrate how strongly you stand behind your belief that you have no such thing as a soul. He gives you a (sterile) sharp to prick your finger and a quill to write with.

Do you sign?

(I've deliberately only provided only yes/no options - no waffling. Quibble as long as you want, get all the answers you need. When all is said and done, do you sign, or do you walk?)
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Souls don't exist so theres nothing to sign away,,however lets consider the possibility there is
Id need to know way more before signing anything,,why would the dude need my soul? can one get another soul later?
What about two soul people can they sell one and keep the other?
what if you sign get lots of money and next day you die....
Moral of the story is be damn careful what you wish for!
 
Aqueous Id said:
Waffling is different than silence.
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Except you aren't silent, are you? Like at least a dozen other people, you feel it's important to explain your viewpoint.

Aqueous Id said:
I have no opinion of the hypothetical you raised,
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Demonstrably false. :rolleyes:


Aqueous Id said:
[... three paragraphs of opinion hidden for clarity...]
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You've spent quite a bit of time composing a post, so it's certainly not true that you find this discussion nonsense or trivial. So, why did you not vote? It costs you nothing.

What I'm examining here, is the suspicion that a lot of people have strong convictions as long as those convictions are not put to a test. The moment they are asked to put their money where their mouth is, even symbolically, you often find out that they rationalize a million reasons why they suddenly don't happen to have any money.

There are exactly three outcomes in this thread:
1. those who sign and rationalize why
2. those who do not sign and rationalize why
3. those who do not participate at all and have no need to explain

Like it or not, you fall into category 2.
 
cluelusshusbund said:
If the riches was money an it was guaranteed i woud sign... an wit that money i coud do more good than any "God" ive ever herd of.!!!
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DaveC426913 said:
There are exactly three outcomes in this thread:
1. those who sign and rationalize why
2. those who do not sign and rationalize why
3. those who do not participate at all and have no need to explain
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So Dave... which catigory do you put my response.???
 
DaveC426913 said:
I'm an atheist, but many of my friends and loved ones are not, so I have developed a respect for people and viewpoints that are not my own. Just setting the stage, so you know where I stand and don't have to second-guess any agenda I may have.

I listen to a 70's station a lot, and they play the song 'The Devil Went Down to Georgia', where Johnny bets his soul. It got me thinking.

I do not have a soul. No one does. But do I have the courage of my convictions that I would willingly sign it away, knowing it's an empty contract, written by a fool?

I posit a scenario:

You spend an evening with your friends with good wine and good food, talking about all sorts of philosophical things. You get into an animated discussion with them about the notion of God and souls and you find yourself vehemently and confidently defending your assertions against an onslaught of pro-god arguments (whether they are sincere or merely Devil's Advocate arguments is a matter of how well you know your friends).

As the night wears on, eventually discussion peters out. Your friends all drift off home or to sleep, leaving you with just one close friend. He re-opens the discussion, oddly mischievously, like he's a whole different person than you knew. With a twinkle in his eye, he asks how strong your beliefs really are and, out of his smoking jacket, pulls a scroll and puts it in front of you to read. In a nutshell, it says he will give you riches beyond your wildest dreams of avarice if you simply sign on the dotted line in your own blood. The catch of course, is that the Devil will "take your eternal soul" when you die.

Now, nothing supernatural has actually occurred. I could very well pull that whole thing off as a lark at the upcoming Hallowe'en party. What I'm saying is: this is not a surreal or hypothetical scenario, it could certainly happen, just as I say.

You know he is full of it. He's not the Devil, since the Devil does not exist, and you have no soul, so there's no harm in signing the contract, since there's no such thing as a soul. The only thing he is really asking of you is to demonstrate how strongly you stand behind your belief that you have no such thing as a soul. He gives you a (sterile) sharp to prick your finger and a quill to write with.

Do you sign?

(I've deliberately only provided only yes/no options - no waffling. Quibble as long as you want, get all the answers you need. When all is said and done, do you sign, or do you walk?)
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There is a devil.

He already has your soul--and all of humanity who remain outside of Christ. Christ is the only safe haven from the coming destruction. Do you choose Christ or or not? There is no waffling according to Him: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."
 
DaveC426913 said:
It certainly cannot be stated categorically here without qualifiers on how god is defined

And I have not defined him.
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What difference does it make? Once anyone posits a definition of God they are either inventing God on the spot or restating a prior invention. In any case it's fiction.
 
Photizo said:
Do you choose Christ or or not? There is no waffling according to Him.
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Correct.

It is taken for granted that any theists will, of course, not sign, and that their reasons are obvious.

If I could edit this poll, I would change the options to:

I am an atheist, and I would sign.
I am an atheist, but I would not sign.

Theists who vote and/or respond, do so at the cost of confusing the issue and the numbers, since this issue is challenging the convictions of atheists. It does not challenge the convictions of theists at all.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Well, you said you voted to sign. Is there any confusion about which category you fall in?
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Originally Posted by DaveC
There are exactly three outcomes in this thread:
1. those who sign and rationalize why
2. those who do not sign and rationalize why
3. those who do not participate at all and have no need to explain
Click to expand...

So you consider my response to be a rationalization of why i voted the way i did.???
 
Aqueous Id said:
Play God much? How's that working for you so far?
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It's working out pretty good:

"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus...When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."

See you then...
 
DaveC426913 said:
Correct.

It is taken for granted that any theists will, of course, not sign, and that their reasons are obvious.
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For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


Yep, a theist would never accept the whole world in exchange for their soul, but they would sacrifice the whole world to gain it. They’d destroy the tree of life for immortality, the love of life for the love of God.


He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.


How twisted is that?
 
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