Atheism & Theism...A Common Denominator
- Thread starter PsychoticEpisode
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I have recounted my God visit in a previous thread, can't remember which one though, so you're not privileged in this regard. Would I have even dreamed up God if I had no prior knowledge, not a chance. If I hadn't read the Christian bible would God and Christ both appear to me the same night, and I must say attired as you might expect, again no way. It's how the mind works. It can save your ass or take you down.
The next time you wake up from a dream take a moment to figure out how it relates to something you've experienced during the day. It's a good exercise and 9 times out of 10 you'll find the reason for it.
Experience is suggestive. I always consider the reasons for my thoughts and every time it is the result of a suggestion. In my mind I couldn't possibly think about something I never experienced or come across through daily life.
If you've never experienced a light bulb then you won't think of one. Light you would have no problem with but a bulb, no way. I don't think Edison dreamed up the light bulb before he thought of artificial light.
Can you tell me if you have ever thought of anything you've never experienced in real life? Tell me anything about something no one including yourself has yet to experience. You can't do it.
Genetically perfected blood that would bring about eternal life and restore communion is pretty out there.
Never thought some shit could morph around on my coffee table like it did one afternoon either. Though that wasn't a thought, it was quite unexpected and unimagined.
Even if experienced in the most minute of detail there is nothing here you haven't come across before. Try as you might it can't be done, you could not have even considered God unless you had the suggestion. Sorry but that's the way it is.
Therapeutically, do you feel your convictions getting stronger with these discussions/attacks about your character? (It's all about perception). Are they weakening or staying the same?
Staying the same.
PE, I can't define god and could never have imagined what's been done to me.
I agree, we cannot think of things we have not seen or heard.
It's an exceedingly good job that history didn't have to rely on you for the invention of the aeroplane/ light bulb/ printing press/ internal combustion engine etc then.
People think of non-experienced/ seen things every single day.earth said:
For some it's a regular part of their job.
It's an exceedingly good job that history didn't have to rely on you for the invention of the aeroplane/ light bulb/ printing press/ internal combustion engine etc then.
Not what I said. In order to think of an airplane one must have looked at flying creatures and first imagined a human doing the same. You now have the idea and the process towards invention begins. You can't tell me you think of the invention before you know what it's for.....You won't be inventing anything soon either
Like we did with the internal combustion engine?
The machine gun?
The computer?
The radio?
An invention begins with an idea that no one (as far you know) has thought of (or made or seen before).You now have the idea and the process towards invention begins. You can't tell me you think of the invention before you know what it's for.....You won't be inventing anything soon either
No one thought of them before they knew what they were for.
No. The idea evolves from experience. There is a cause or reason if you like, for the idea.
Nature provides us with the ideas. See a bird....invent a flying machine, apple falls on your head....theorize, why....God (ever notice God has human attributes....superhuman perhaps). Even words have roots. Language evolves...we didn't all of a sudden have one guy stand up and say I think I'll invent a language today.
I'll offer you the same challenge I gave Lori. Think of something right now that is 100% new. Or take your time, it won't matter because it can't be done.
I'll have to test you in this one.
Tell me about something that nobody has seen or heard? And then make it come about.
At what point in history?
Who'd seen or heard a jet engine before Whittle got to work?
Who'd seen or heard a printing press before Guttenberg started?
Who'd seen or heard a computer before Turing got to work?
Etc.
If no one ever thought of anything that hadn't been seen or heard of before we wouldn't have anywhere near the technology we do now.
Scientific advance is based on thinking of stuff that no one has thought of before.
So what?
They were thought of out of the blue to do something in a way that had never been done before.
Granted the idea comes out wanting to do X or Y, but the method is from scratch.
Up to a point.
Because god is based on us: simply a more powerful us.
Nearly correct.
Language evolves, words are invented.
Where did the roots of the words come from?
Look up the etymology of the word "quiz" for example.
Wrong again.
I've done it and patented it.
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Math drives science.
All I recognize you're doing here in this post as an example is dreaming up a purple frog with hazel colored eyes and with yellow and green stripes down its back. We know about frogs and we know about them having different pigmentation and markings. Give the frog different color eyes and body and different markings. Now we have a whole new species of frog.
Things develop one step at a time progressing brought about through refining. Even a joke gets refined over time.
You can't top evolution and jump ahead.
Nope: concepts drive science.
Maths supports/ validates it.
So you're ignoring the examples I gave?
Clever of you.
Agreed some things get refined over time.
From what?
The original (new) idea.
Nope, math weeds out the nonsense.
So you're ignoring the examples I gave?
Clever of you.
I'll take the printing press as you referenced. First one has to have language. Language has taken a long time to develop. Egyptian hieroglyphs developed long before the printing press. Take a round piece of wood and carve a letter on the end of it. Coat the end with dye and stamp it on leather. Presto a non-developed non-refined crude printing press.
Explain to me how one tops evolution and jumps ahead?
Wow, I wonder what "validate" implies...
And your point would be?
Mine is that the printing press hadn't been seen or heard until the first was built.
You seem to be adopting an extremely narrow meaning to the word "invent".
Would not your single-letter stamp counts as an invention?
Something not seen or heard before hand?
Who said anything about "topping evolution"?
Okay, I'm about done. Math develops concepts. Everything evolves and science has accepted that as fact.
Inventing something is giving credit to a person who makes the first one from things observable. Puting it all together. We started off as tool builders.
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Nonsense.
You have to have the concept before you can put numbers to it.
That's rubbish.
Living things evolve.
Technology can evolve or spring out of nowhere.
Like I said: a very narrow definition.