Are Out-of-body and/or Near-death experiences real or hallucinations?

[davewhite04]

Moderator note: This thread was split from a discussion of people's general religious beliefs.
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What subjective experience have you of life after death?

I described the incident in Eastern Philosophy, in "the meaning of life" thread.

Basically, I was outside of my body and took a float or walk it seemed like. When I entered my body nothing worked but my soul was stuck, it was uncomfortable to say the least. No life from my body, no heart beat nothing. I did shout this and that telepathically(your soul is telepathic), because I couldn't use my mouth or lungs or anything. My body slow at first then speedily came back to life, immense relief. As soon as I could walk I made a cup of hot tea, and pondered on it.

 

[PratherJ]

Obtaining any evidence of LAD via subjective experience, and then reporting back to us, would seem to present quite the challenge.

Maybe so.
If some can accept without proof a god created the universe. Then, a reported experience of a soul taking a temporary trip out of the body, shouldn’t be too impossible to believe without proof too.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Why don't most of you believe NDEs and OBEs are possible and valid. Do you think all the people that have them are hallucinating, crazy or lying.

 

[billvon]

Why don't most of you believe NDEs and OBEs are possible and valid. Do you think all the people that have them are hallucinating, crazy or lying.

A hallucination is real to them.

 

[davewhite04]

A hallucination is real to them.

This is true, however normal people without drugs don't tend to have hallucination's.

I get phantosmia, well had it twice during a manic episode, I thought I was smelling our "real" atmosphere, and we don't get that we get filtered air from that. Never had any other hallucination.

 

[billvon]

This is true, however normal people without drugs don't tend to have hallucination's.

Sure they do. Some kids sleepwalk and have night terrors, where they are seeing something that isn't there. People with simple medical issues (low blood pressure and fever for example) people with brain tumors, schizophrenia, depression, thyroid disorders, narcolepsy or migraines will all sometimes hallucinate. And of course people who are dying.

 

[davewhite04]

Sure they do. Some kids sleepwalk and have night terrors, where they are seeing something that isn't there. People with simple medical issues (low blood pressure and fever for example) people with brain tumors, schizophrenia, depression, thyroid disorders, narcolepsy or migraines will all sometimes hallucinate. And of course people who are dying.

Do you experience hallucinations? Does anyone on sciforums? What type of hallucination is an NDE/OBE?

 

[Randwolf]

What type of hallucination is an NDE/OBE?

Maybe a DMT induced one?


But in 2019, Borjigin and Strassman found that dying rat brains released a surge of DMT as well.

That’s a strong indicator that human brains are doing something similar, Borjigin told an interviewer at the time — because cognitive phenomena found in rats usually display in people too, although not vice versa.

It’s hard to investigate much beyond that, however. The tests for a dying surge of DMT are highly invasive, and — absent end-of-life volunteers willing to have their skulls opened as they die in the name of science — very hard to corroborate.


Here is the actual paper....

 

[davewhite04]

Maybe a DMT induced one?


But in 2019, Borjigin and Strassman found that dying rat brains released a surge of DMT as well.

That’s a strong indicator that human brains are doing something similar, Borjigin told an interviewer at the time — because cognitive phenomena found in rats usually display in people too, although not vice versa.

It’s hard to investigate much beyond that, however. The tests for a dying surge of DMT are highly invasive, and — absent end-of-life volunteers willing to have their skulls opened as they die in the name of science — very hard to corroborate.


Here is the actual paper....

In a NDE/OBE you come out of your body with no brain.

Much better at every good thing(well what I've experienced), with no flaws, that's what I experienced. It's the YOU in you. Meaning, an aspect of what makes you on earth is eternal.

EDIT: Funny you should mention DMT. I met someone who did have an DMT induced OBE! I think his spirit/soul was released from his body using DMT. He flew around the room looking at himself!

 

[billvon]

Do you experience hallucinations?

I did when I had pneumonia as a child. That was a long time ago though.

What type of hallucination is an NDE/OBE?

A hallucination brought about by the low blood pressure and hypoxia associated with coming death.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

A hallucination is real to them.

Sp you believe an experience that seems almost realer than life is a hallucination. You don't believe one can differentiate between the real and the unreal.

 

[billvon]

Sp you believe an experience that seems almost realer than life is a hallucination.

??No. I believe that hallucinations vary in perceived reality. Some seem so real that people act on them. Some seem like vague dreams.

Sedrick Letzie Norris, for example, had a long bout of depression, including hallucinations and hearing voices. The voices told him to kill himself. He tried but failed. The voices then told him to shoot his wife and kids. Sadly, he succeeded there, and in 2016 shot and killed his wife and shot four of his children. His hallucinations were real enough that they overcame his reluctance to kill a woman he loved.

When I was hallucinating while febrile, the hallucinations made no sense, and although scary (the shadow man with no face that kept coming into my room) I was able to realize they were false once I recovered a bit.

 

[davewhite04]

??No. I believe that hallucinations vary in perceived reality. Some seem so real that people act on them. Some seem like vague dreams.

Sedrick Letzie Norris, for example, had a long bout of depression, including hallucinations and hearing voices. The voices told him to kill himself. He tried but failed. The voices then told him to shoot his wife and kids. Sadly, he succeeded there, and in 2016 shot and killed his wife and shot four of his children. His hallucinations were real enough that they overcame his reluctance to kill a woman he loved.

When I was hallucinating while febrile, the hallucinations made no sense, and although scary (the shadow man with no face that kept coming into my room) I was able to realize they were false once I recovered a bit.

This really is nonsense spoken by someone who has no experience in the subject at all.

You don't seem to understand anything that makes your model redundant. You've got no idea what we're talking about. Do you think you know more about NDE/OBE than someone who has experienced first hand numerous times? You have no experience just AI or whatever you're using.

 

[davewhite04]

Sp you believe an experience that seems almost realer than life is a hallucination. You don't believe one can differentiate between the real and the unreal.

I wouldn't bite, you get the odd know it all with no actual knowledge of what they're talking about.

 

[PratherJ]

Do you think you know more about NDE/OBE than someone who has experienced first hand numerous times?

Have you other experiences of OBE besides the one you directed me to?
That was the OBE above the car you were driving.

? ? ?
Just noticed these posts.
Do you feel threatened when your OBE experiences are explained in other ways besides relating to death and possibly your belief in a god?

This really is nonsense spoken by someone who has no experience in the subject at all.
You don't seem to understand anything that makes your model redundant. You've got no idea what we're talking about. Do you think you know more about NDE/OBE than someone who has experienced first hand numerous times? You have no experience just AI or whatever you're using.

I wouldn't bite, you get the odd know it all with no actual knowledge of what they're talking about.

 

[DaveC426913]

Do you think you know more about NDE/OBE than someone who has experienced first hand numerous times?

Having experienced something doesn't necessarily make one knowledgeable about it.
Think of ghosts and UFOs.

 

[billvon]

This really is nonsense spoken by someone who has no experience in the subject at all.

Other than, you know, actual hallucinations.

 

[TheVat]

I had an OBE years ago which seemed to be a vivid dream caused by a small leak from our woodstove. Puttied the hole, experience not repeated.

 

[davewhite04]

Have you other experiences of OBE besides the one you directed me to?

I have two others. I haven't experienced another for about 10-15 years.

That was the OBE above the car you were driving.

This was the first, it happened and even just that one convinced me eventually, but I had two more as bonuses. These other two weren't as eventful.

? ? ?
Just noticed these posts.
Do you feel threatened when your OBE experiences are explained in other ways besides relating to death and possibly your belief in a god?

No I don't feel threatened, I get annoyed because these people don't read my posts properly. So I spend 5-20mins explaining the same thing I have explained a dozen times before. I like scepticism, but I get ticked off, possibly at myself for not explaining things properly.

 

[davewhite04]

Having experienced something doesn't necessarily make one knowledgeable about it.
Think of ghosts and UFOs.

I read the bible, books relating to evolution, and books on the Holy spirit. I discovered NDE/OBEs(not much available back then compared to now). I didn't realise coming out of your body is uncommon, even rare but it still happens. So I gained knowledge from all over the place including my experiences.