Anyone here against tests on animals that cause them to suffer?

This forum is a quagmire for me. I had to take a course in Vertebrate Anatomy where we dissected an Amphioxus lamprey (like an eel), a shark, and a cat. When it came to dissecting the cat and opening up its heart, I refused, as was then expelled from the school indirectly, but in my opinion directly, because of that.

If one believes in god or a soul then the heart is the center and seat of the soul. It is the center of an animal's life! I will not regret what I refused to do.
 
Billy T said:
to samcdkey:

Thanks for your long list. I returned from the denist today so I scaned your list to see if you mention that some human teeth were grown in rabbit's (I think) mouth recently by some stem-cell researchers. I would like to think that someday old people can get new teeth, truely their own. Keep up the good work.


I've never heard of this either. And I am supposed to be in this business. I would like to know of course what you are referring too.

Googling isn't really helping.
I get this for instance but that is not quite the same as you were saying.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/06/060628234304.htm
 
samcdkey said:
My work involves a lot of animal testing. I don't know if you are aware of this but there are strict rules and regulations which need to be followed when using animals: the minimum number of animals, the least amount of suffering, proper justification for each and every technique used, the surgical techniques to be performed etc. Housing feed and health of the animals is monitored on a daily basis. We need training for every aspect from animal handling to anesthesia and tissue harvesting. We use techniques which are focused on getting results with the least amount of discomfort and pain to the animals.

That said pain and suffering is sometimes unavoidable; but we do our best to keep it minimal.

Sam, what are you hoping to achieve with the animal tests you carry out?
I'm not attacking you, it's just that the general public seem to give medical testing the nod, even when they don't have the slightest clue what is meant by medical research or the aims of the researchers that carry it out.
 
leopold99 said:
my guess would be the following
1. we don't hunt each other for food
2. we don't have sex in front of god and everybody
3. we take a shit in private
4. we don't go around sniffing each others asses
5. we don't lick our own genitals
6. we don't eat our afterbirth

and that's just for starters

LOL, you're joking right?
 
wsionynw said:
Sam, what are you hoping to achieve with the animal tests you carry out?
I'm not attacking you, it's just that the general public seem to give medical testing the nod, even when they don't have the slightest clue what is meant by medical research or the aims of the researchers that carry it out.

I'm in nutrition and my animal studies look at the effects of nutrients on energy metabolism with an aim to understanding how food is utilised/stored for energy, whether these nutrients have differing effects in different tissues and what are the factors that determine how food is utilised for energy. The ultimate aim of these studies is to look at the metabolism of these nutrients in terms of diseases where these nutrients are a consideration. e.g. obesity, diabetes. cancer, etc. We generally use cell studies to develop a theory, then apply the specific objectives to an animal model to ascertain the differences in a whole body model, since nutrients do not act in isolation and cell models are inadequate for the purpose.
 
I don't support animal testing. Animals have nervous systems just like us. And they experience pain. But I don't think there's a better alternative. I say test it on humans. Pay them handsomely, and make them aware of the potential risk before they volunteer.
 
So is there anyone who eats meat and is against animal testing?

Personally, I don't see why we should treat animals any better than they treat each other.

As James said, we're no greater than them.
 
madanthonywayne said:
So is there anyone who eats meat and is against animal testing?

Personally, I don't see why we should treat animals any better than they treat each other.

As James said, we're no greater than them.

We don't treat animals any better than they treat each other, that's the point. We treat them like products for our use.
 
We may not be greater than other animals but we do differ from all others in unique ways. For instance, we have the unique ability to develop moral systems and draw conclusions on the basis of them.

I eat meat. It's morally indefensible, I'm sorry, but it just tastes so good. On the other hand, I'm against unnecessary animal cruelty (yes, yes, I know). And on the other hand (I have 3), I support animal testing on a case-by-case basis, where there's no alternative to it and where the benefits to countless humans outweigh the suffering caused to a finite number of animals. Also, as soon as alternative research methods become available we should adopt them where it's practical to do so, since the thought of hurting little bunnies isn't very nice and makes me squirm.

Feel free to pick the above to pieces and highlight my considerable moral confusion in these matters. I wish I could proceed with the certainty of all you animal evangelists and get over my addiction to eating dead pigs on bread.
 
G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
Let's test stuff on africans instead.

Or at least only ugly crap animals.


The drug companies are alreaady using africans as guinea pigs, and last year 4 people in the uk were used in such tests, all becoming critical in hours after taking the test drugs.

I believe all drug tests or anything else should not be tested on animals, only convicted terroists deserve to be used for testing, at last they can do something to further mankind rather than kill mankind, which seems to be there only life goal.
 
vincent28uk said:
last year 4 people in the uk were used in such tests, all becoming critical in hours after taking the test drugs.

As I recall, that drug was tested on animals with no side effects. However interaction with the human body specifically, led to those near fatal results.
 
samcdkey said:
I'm in nutrition and my animal studies look at the effects of nutrients on energy metabolism with an aim to understanding how food is utilised/stored for energy, whether these nutrients have differing effects in different tissues and what are the factors that determine how food is utilised for energy. The ultimate aim of these studies is to look at the metabolism of these nutrients in terms of diseases where these nutrients are a consideration. e.g. obesity, diabetes. cancer, etc. We generally use cell studies to develop a theory, then apply the specific objectives to an animal model to ascertain the differences in a whole body model, since nutrients do not act in isolation and cell models are inadequate for the purpose.

Thank you for your response, it's always interesting to hear from those on the other side of the fence, as it were, that have first hand experience in the subject matter.
 
G. F. Schleebenhorst said:
Let's test stuff on africans instead.

Or at least only ugly crap animals.


Been there done that! Segregationists such as yourself should know the history of Afiricans being exploited by drug companies. :confused:
 
Yes i am, its completely unethical, we can all agree that to use, manipulate, and coerce for our own selfish ends is a pretty poor way to lead a life, so it really doesnt make much sense atall that people should create a social loophole whereby you *can* use, coerce and manipulate as long as its not human and as long as its for the 'greater good'.
If you examine the rhetoric involved in animal research youre looking at the same lines of justification as states that have enacted genocide on a race/people.
I find theres offen a heavy tone of 'de-humanisation' or prehaps 'de-animalisation' (to use a more appropriate term) involved in animal testing, case in point one of the earlier posters refered to the animal she was testing on as an 'animal model'. Its not even a living creature anymore, its a thing, it, simulation etc.
 
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