Abortion and the Death Penalty

[Orleander]

no, I don't think anyone wonders about cancer.

 

[Enmos]

no, I don't think anyone wonders about cancer.

No.. but they should, given their line of reasoning.

 

[S.A.M.]

While I whole-heartedly agree with your opinions in this particular thread (regarding abortion, anyway), I'm curious as to why you feel others should be able to practice abortion if it's as barbaric as you make it seem? You seem to be arguing its brutality, and you have been equating abortion to the murder of a living, born child. While I don't disagree with this comparison, I'm curious as to why you think abortion should be legal to those who want it, despite how awful you make it seem? If you think abortion is as bad as killing a newborn child, then surely it should be illegal under all circumstances to all people, right? Doesn't sound right to me.

For the same reason I accept that some people want a death penalty when their loved ones are killed. Just because I disagree with some way of life, it does not mean that everyone else has to.

Many things are alive, but you don't care too much about them. Clearly "life" is not the important thing in this debate.

It is if you're justifying abortion based on the theory that its a group of "cells" no different than a wart or pimple. Its an individual, a unique human being and anyone who thinks that vacuuming off a human being from their uterus is not killing a person is fooling no one but themselves. I kill rats for a living, I don't pretend they are vegetables, just so I can justify it.

Do you find somehow strange the argument that an egg magically acquires the status of a chicken after it has hatched ?

And in fact a child acquires more and more rights as it develops, so that in the eighth month (for example) it has almost (but not quite) the same status as a live born child.

And the born child continues to "magically" acquire rights and privileges (and lose them) right up until it is some specified arbitrary age, at which time it has the complete set and we call it an "adult".

To declare a fertilized egg to have the same moral, legal, or spiritual status as an adult human being is to be utterly disrespectful of human life and development, not only the child's but the actively participating gestating mother's.

In point of fact I simply don't believe anyone who claims to consider an 8 week embryo a human being equivalent to a child, because I have never met anyone who acts accordingly, supports the laws or customs contingent upon such a belief, or even notices unprompted the ubiquitous failure of any societies to behave according to such a belief. The only time the issue even comes up is when the behavior of women is in need of constraint by their betters, especially re abortion. Otherwise, you will search in vain for (as an example) a society that treats early miscarriage as the death of a child.

Many people do. Women grieve for miscarriages too. And for abortions. If you cracked open an egg and found a half formed chick instead, could you still make an omelet from it? Does a 10-12 week old fetus look like a fertilised egg to you?

 

[Tyler]

"If you cracked open an egg and found a half formed chick instead, could you still make an omelet from it?"

I'm pretty sure that's unhealthy.

 

[Steve100]

"If you cracked open an egg and found a half formed chick instead, could you still make an omelet from it?"

I'm pretty sure that's unhealthy.

I wouldn't bank on it, you could however leave it on a low heat and watch it develop.

 

[Asguard]

some right-to-lifers do. There are pharmacists here who refuse to dispense it. And the Catholic hospitals I know of do not carry it in their pharmacies. If a rape victim shows up for treatment, she will not receive that pill there.

thank god i live in australia where these practices are illegal

 

[Orleander]

why would it be illegal? If a pharmacist has ethical reasons for not wanting to dispense a drug, another pharmacist may do so. Some people don't work on Sundays and some don't dispense what they consider an abortion drug.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think if your work interferes with your belief you should find some other occupation.

 

[Orleander]

It may not have been an issue til the drug was invented. Most employers will work around it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Birth control has been around for some time. What did they do before? Refuse to sell condoms? I have no patience with people whose beliefs get in other people's way of life. Hold as many beliefs as you want, but don't let it interfere with how other people live their lives.

 

[Orleander]

??? birth control doesn't abort a fertilized egg. I think a pharmacist has every right not to dispense a drug he doesn't agree with. He would consider himself a murderer doing so.

 

[S.A.M.]

Then he should get another job. What if I have a religion that believes some people are unclean? Should I refuse to treat those people?

 

[Asguard]

orleander, sam is right. if you cant treat your pts with respect you shouldnt be in health PERIOD. If your a nurse who doesnt agree with abortion dont work in that sector but any health proffessional who refused to give CORRECT medical treatment to a rape victom and that includes the morning after pill would be sued for medical negilance, delisted as a medical proffessional and probably face criminal charges as well

As for a pharmisit who refused to give the morning after pill they also dont have that right to decide. the job of a health proffessional is to advise the pt then carry out THERE decision not enforce yours on them.

thats the law

 

[Enmos]

There are religions of which the believers refuse any kind of medical treatment.
What if one of them was a pharmacist ? lol

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, in a profession, be professional. I never discuss my personal beliefs at work. Most especially if they contradict my work ethics.

 

[Orleander]

orleander, sam is right. if you cant treat your pts with respect you shouldnt be in health PERIOD. ...

How is it disrespectful to a patient to not dispense a drug they don't agree with? The pharmacist doesn't stand there and call her a whore for using it. If its his own pharmacy he would just say "sorry, we don't carry this drug"

Should we also demand the pharmacist learn Spanish?

 

[S.A.M.]

How is it disrespectful to a patient to not dispense a drug they don't agree with? The pharmacist doesn't stand there and call her a whore for using it. If its his own pharmacy he would just say "sorry, we don't carry this drug"

Should we also demand the pharmacist learn Spanish?

Umm no. Can I declare a belief in neo-Nazism and refuse to serve blacks, Jews, untouchables? Can I be a vegetarian dishwasher who won't wash meat dishes? Can I be a Sudanese cab driver who won't allow dogs in my cab even if its a seeing eye dog? Can I be an Amish doctor and refuse to use electricity? Its ridiculous.

Its not a job description for a pharmacist to be a polyglot, but it is not his job to decide which prescriptions he will fill. Unless its for legal reasons.

 

[Asguard]

look at a different situation,
would you have a pacifist as a riflmen in the army?
a person whos religion forbids the use of computers working tech surport in a computer company?

no, if they dont like it find another proffession, the goverment employs health staff to admister heath advice and treatment based on the guidlines the GOVERMENT has set. That means that a doc in A&E with a sexual assult victom (sorry in health its never called rape, thats a legal ruling of the courts) must follow the guidelines for dealing with sexual assults like photographing the injuries, taking bloods to test for STD's, collecting trace evidence, giving profalactics AND providing the morning after pill. If the pt says she doesnt want it thats her choice, not the doctors OR the nurses or any other health worker. We are just there to give the infomation and provide the treatment, they make the decisions. its also against the medical practice guidelines (which means if you breach them the penelty is termination) to misslead the pt. Ie to try to convince them not to take the morning after pill, or tell them its not nessary against medical guidlines ect

 

[Orleander]

...Its not a job description for a pharmacist to be a polyglot, but it is not his job to decide which prescriptions he will fill. Unless its for legal reasons.

do you think a pharmacist who is against the drug would carry it in his store?
He's not refusing the customer, he's refusing the drug. He's not against her, he's against the drug.
I can the same thing happening with medical pot. Some pharmacies will not carry it due to ethical beliefs.

 

[Enmos]

do you think a pharmacist who is against the drug would carry it in his store?
He's not refusing the customer, he's refusing the drug. He's not against her, he's against the drug.
I can the same thing happening with medical pot. Some pharmacies will not carry it due to ethical beliefs.

Those are some weird ass pharmacies...

How come the pharmacist can decide for others what medicine they can use and what medicine they can't use ?
If he doesn't want to use it fine..