A state's duty: survival or happiness?
- Thread starter Adam
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That is a hard one, if the first were true communism would be the way to go the latter, some other form of government. I really think it should be a balance of both but having a society which can function and looks after both or either perfectly is I feel impossible.
You can't have happiness without survival can you? so, survival, THEN happiness.
Because if YOU dont survive Asguard, THEY win. Nobody is happy.
If YOU survive, THEY lose ground. We have the potential to SOMEDAY be happy.
Which is better?
If YOU survive, THEY lose ground. We have the potential to SOMEDAY be happy.
Which is better?
I think the duty of the state is to care for the weak and maintain order and equality of rights among it's citizens... then the base for happyness is found, of course the state doesn't have the duty to make you happy directly, that's your concern as a free being.. It does have to prevent you from being very miserable though (unless you want it)
Ok then, you go be unhappy because you're not happy and I'll live.... with my survival (almost) guaranteed by the state I live in.
After all, I can go on the internet and talk about being unhappy...If I don't have a computer, there's internet cafes, and I can use a bit of my dole payment to access them. We have welfare, our state tries to ensure our survival.
In Bangladesh they're too busy trying to find something to eat. there's no welfare there.
I can take my 4 wheel drive, go down the Burrup and go fishing, with a small stash in hand... this makes me happy, for a while.
If I can't afford a 4 wheel drive, I still have enough money to buy some bait to go fishing with... we have welfare. I'm still happy, for a little while.
In some parts of Africa, your survival depends on who has the most guns and the biggest tribe. No welfare there either.
In some places, their happiness doesn't get a chance to grow... they're too busy trying to survive. Where we live, we can ALL be happy, even its only for a little while... because we're not fighting for our lives or starving to death.
Give me the survival, and I'll make my own happiness.
Don't talk about suicide, go fishing instead
After all, I can go on the internet and talk about being unhappy...If I don't have a computer, there's internet cafes, and I can use a bit of my dole payment to access them. We have welfare, our state tries to ensure our survival.
In Bangladesh they're too busy trying to find something to eat. there's no welfare there.
I can take my 4 wheel drive, go down the Burrup and go fishing, with a small stash in hand... this makes me happy, for a while.
If I can't afford a 4 wheel drive, I still have enough money to buy some bait to go fishing with... we have welfare. I'm still happy, for a little while.
In some parts of Africa, your survival depends on who has the most guns and the biggest tribe. No welfare there either.
In some places, their happiness doesn't get a chance to grow... they're too busy trying to survive. Where we live, we can ALL be happy, even its only for a little while... because we're not fighting for our lives or starving to death.
Give me the survival, and I'll make my own happiness.
Don't talk about suicide, go fishing instead
yes isn't the world a FUCKED up place
and all i have to do is pick up the big knife beside me and it will all go away, i have thought about it, tried to infact but i only used a compass and it wasn't long enough
you think you know how fucked up this world is LOOK at that thread, LOOK at the link i provided about youth suicide
we live is such a FUCKING GOOD country that our youth want to die
LOOK AT THIS
or THIS
And this one
THIS IS REAL
and it dosn't just go away because you "go fishing", its there ALL the time
for at least 5 years i have been like this on and off
Sorry to hijake your thread adam
and all i have to do is pick up the big knife beside me and it will all go away, i have thought about it, tried to infact but i only used a compass and it wasn't long enough
you think you know how fucked up this world is LOOK at that thread, LOOK at the link i provided about youth suicide
we live is such a FUCKING GOOD country that our youth want to die
LOOK AT THIS
or THIS
And this one
THIS IS REAL
and it dosn't just go away because you "go fishing", its there ALL the time
for at least 5 years i have been like this on and off
Sorry to hijake your thread adam
Don't think I don't know what suicide is all about.. I've been fairly close to it, when I was a teenager I used to lie on my bed every night with a walkman playing heavy metal on full volume, grinding my teeth together in the dark trying to think about things in a rational way and failing every time. Muscles as tense as hell and unable to stop thinking about how UNFAIR it all was, how bad things were, and being so BLOODY ANGRY. Wondering why that surfie guy next door had so many good looking girlfriends and I couldn't get ANYONE. Wondering why he always went to the parties and had FUN and I was lying here in the dark. Wondering how he could be so DAMN HAPPY all the time when the government was ripping everyone off, and looking after themselves. Wondering why the hell everyone didnt DO something about it all. Didnt he SEE what was going on? Was I the ONLY one?? He's going to a party and there's people DYING all over the world. Doesn't he UNDERSTAND??
Now, I go fishing instead. I find it relaxing. I'm over it. I found something better... life. Saying fuck them all. Saying screw you lot, I'm doing what I want. Living for ME. Concentrating on what I want, instead of thinking about the poor people in xyz-abad all the time and how tough they have it. I still think about those people from time to time... but now I see that the only way I can appreciate life is to live it knowing that I have it pretty good by comparison. I can't do anything to help. I know that now. So I appreciate what I do have, and now living for me has grown to include my friends, and my wife. This all took a fair amount of time.... quite a lot of years. Now, I'm not "happy" in the sense that all is right with the world, but I'm "happy" in the sense that all is right with me, and I can laugh at myself, at the government, and especially at other people.
Call me what you want, and tell me I'm a prick... I'm comfortable with it. I know who I am. I know my faults, and my good points.
I'm still an angry bastard... but I don't think I really hurt anyone.
I've been called an idiot more times than I can count, but I'm still alive and I still enjoy going fishing. In other words, it hasnt affected me one bit, except that sometimes I'll stop to think about why I'm being called an idiot, or worse. And sometimes being made to stop and think will lead to me doing something like writing this, which I would never normally do. I'll probably regret it in the morning.. for all of 5 minutes. Then I'll laugh and post something else. Particularly if someone says something stupid.
And I'm not gonna die anytime soon, unless I happen to get run over by a bus. Suicide? fuck it. Go fishing instead... or whatever else does it for you.
Damn.. that was a long post.
Now, I go fishing instead. I find it relaxing. I'm over it. I found something better... life. Saying fuck them all. Saying screw you lot, I'm doing what I want. Living for ME. Concentrating on what I want, instead of thinking about the poor people in xyz-abad all the time and how tough they have it. I still think about those people from time to time... but now I see that the only way I can appreciate life is to live it knowing that I have it pretty good by comparison. I can't do anything to help. I know that now. So I appreciate what I do have, and now living for me has grown to include my friends, and my wife. This all took a fair amount of time.... quite a lot of years. Now, I'm not "happy" in the sense that all is right with the world, but I'm "happy" in the sense that all is right with me, and I can laugh at myself, at the government, and especially at other people.
Call me what you want, and tell me I'm a prick... I'm comfortable with it. I know who I am. I know my faults, and my good points.
I'm still an angry bastard... but I don't think I really hurt anyone.
I've been called an idiot more times than I can count, but I'm still alive and I still enjoy going fishing. In other words, it hasnt affected me one bit, except that sometimes I'll stop to think about why I'm being called an idiot, or worse. And sometimes being made to stop and think will lead to me doing something like writing this, which I would never normally do. I'll probably regret it in the morning.. for all of 5 minutes. Then I'll laugh and post something else. Particularly if someone says something stupid.
And I'm not gonna die anytime soon, unless I happen to get run over by a bus. Suicide? fuck it. Go fishing instead... or whatever else does it for you.
Damn.. that was a long post.
I have very rarely felt angry just sad, just EMPTY
i would LOVE to be angry, because that would be SOMETHING
i am going to post a quote from another thread
This is why it is not the cowards way out, because courage requires HOPE which is exacty what depression lacks
i would LOVE to be angry, because that would be SOMETHING
i am going to post a quote from another thread
This is why it is not the cowards way out, because courage requires HOPE which is exacty what depression lacks
You DO get pissed off... at me, for example? Don't tell me you don't get angry. Being depressed is only part of it.
You obviously have a brain, and can recognise depression for what it is. THAT is the time to do something about it.
I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm not going to tell you how to get over it... but that's exactly what you have to do. You can "see" and talk about it to all the people you like.. but the final choice is yours. You'll either live, or die.
I'll tell you though... living is a whole lot better. You can go fishing if you're alive
You obviously have a brain, and can recognise depression for what it is. THAT is the time to do something about it.
I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm not going to tell you how to get over it... but that's exactly what you have to do. You can "see" and talk about it to all the people you like.. but the final choice is yours. You'll either live, or die.
I'll tell you though... living is a whole lot better. You can go fishing if you're alive
actully i intend to live (for starters im going to a shrink the second my doc gets back to give me a referal)
I am going to live and finsh my aprentiship because i want to open a kichen (or whatever you want to call it) to feed the homeless youths living on the streets of melborne
I am going to live and finsh my aprentiship because i want to open a kichen (or whatever you want to call it) to feed the homeless youths living on the streets of melborne
Don't get me started on depression......Yeah I've been there, the feeling of emptiness wanting to feel or feeling but having no outlet, you are nothing. And yeah it does ccome and go, like waves crashing over you to some unreachable shore, they recede only to return. I thought about suicide once and never again after, I "Attempted" it but then realized living (not life in the philosophical sense) is beautiful, breathin, drinking, looking at the stars.
Now I have a question to pose, if a person wants to commit suicide (truely) is there really anyway of stopping them?
Don't think I don't know what suicide is all about.. I've been fairly close to it, when I was a teenager I used to lie on my bed every night with a walkman playing heavy metal on full volume, grinding my teeth together in the dark trying to think about things in a rational way and failing every time. Muscles as tense as hell and unable to stop thinking about how UNFAIR it all was, how bad things were, and being so BLOODY ANGRY. Wondering why that surfie guy next door had so many good looking girlfriends and I couldn't get ANYONE. Wondering why he always went to the parties and had FUN and I was lying here in the dark. Wondering how he could be so DAMN HAPPY all the time when the government was ripping everyone off, and looking after themselves. Wondering why the hell everyone didnt DO something about it all. Didnt he SEE what was going on? Was I the ONLY one?? He's going to a party and there's people DYING all over the world. Doesn't he UNDERSTAND??
oh an I have to comment on this: I completely understand. Like pounding on a brick wall and screaming in your head, complete and utterly perfect frustration. People don;t understand why the little things that get people kinda frustrated make you blow up, its because it makes you think of everything, the constant struggle. And I know what you mean about them not understanding, being alone in a group of friends, always alone even at parties, incapable of having fun. Well that's how it is for me.
Now I have a question to pose, if a person wants to commit suicide (truely) is there really anyway of stopping them?
Don't think I don't know what suicide is all about.. I've been fairly close to it, when I was a teenager I used to lie on my bed every night with a walkman playing heavy metal on full volume, grinding my teeth together in the dark trying to think about things in a rational way and failing every time. Muscles as tense as hell and unable to stop thinking about how UNFAIR it all was, how bad things were, and being so BLOODY ANGRY. Wondering why that surfie guy next door had so many good looking girlfriends and I couldn't get ANYONE. Wondering why he always went to the parties and had FUN and I was lying here in the dark. Wondering how he could be so DAMN HAPPY all the time when the government was ripping everyone off, and looking after themselves. Wondering why the hell everyone didnt DO something about it all. Didnt he SEE what was going on? Was I the ONLY one?? He's going to a party and there's people DYING all over the world. Doesn't he UNDERSTAND??
oh an I have to comment on this: I completely understand. Like pounding on a brick wall and screaming in your head, complete and utterly perfect frustration. People don;t understand why the little things that get people kinda frustrated make you blow up, its because it makes you think of everything, the constant struggle. And I know what you mean about them not understanding, being alone in a group of friends, always alone even at parties, incapable of having fun. Well that's how it is for me.
sorry, I didnt read teh rest of the posts.. I didnt realise there was a new convo happening.
I think everyone goes through some sort of depression whether it be mild or not. Apparently there is three different sorts of depression, Chronic , Manic and something else. Each having differnt characteristics. Ive heard it all, I was on antidepressants which are fucked! DONT EVER GO ON ANTIDEPRESSANTS!!! Counsellors help, but are expensive, people (friends/family) usually dont know what they are talkign about, and dont know how you feel.
WHat it comes back to is you. Its true what the other guys say, you either live or die. Its proven children, when first born, can die without love, the shock kills them. So you need it. But your brain has patterned a way that you need to physically disrupt. Its changing the way your percive. Thats where you need to ask a professional, to get teh skills to do that. Otherwise, what I did, was every time I thought something bad, like "what am i good for? whats the point... etc" Id force myself to counteract it with a positve thought ie "I can try to bring happiness to ppl, thats what im good for" and "and that is my point" no matter how corny it sound, its a progression to changing your though patterns. And you need to belive them, so you need to search for answers you belive. Because there are good qualities about you, you just have to let yourslef know about them.
Sorry, didnt mean to ramble
I think everyone goes through some sort of depression whether it be mild or not. Apparently there is three different sorts of depression, Chronic , Manic and something else. Each having differnt characteristics. Ive heard it all, I was on antidepressants which are fucked! DONT EVER GO ON ANTIDEPRESSANTS!!! Counsellors help, but are expensive, people (friends/family) usually dont know what they are talkign about, and dont know how you feel.
WHat it comes back to is you. Its true what the other guys say, you either live or die. Its proven children, when first born, can die without love, the shock kills them. So you need it. But your brain has patterned a way that you need to physically disrupt. Its changing the way your percive. Thats where you need to ask a professional, to get teh skills to do that. Otherwise, what I did, was every time I thought something bad, like "what am i good for? whats the point... etc" Id force myself to counteract it with a positve thought ie "I can try to bring happiness to ppl, thats what im good for" and "and that is my point" no matter how corny it sound, its a progression to changing your though patterns. And you need to belive them, so you need to search for answers you belive. Because there are good qualities about you, you just have to let yourslef know about them.
Sorry, didnt mean to ramble
Agent@5
I disagree.
The pro's to antidepressents outweigh the cons majorly.
I am on lithium now, a mood stabalizing drug, because I have bipolar disorder. However, before I was diagnosed I was on anti depressents (bloody doctors!)
I had been in a slump for 3+ years, and when the doctor put me on medication, i was more than happy (scuse the pun) to oblige. And yes, I believe they helped some. When you're depressed for a while the ceretonum levels in your brain drop down way too low, and the anti depressents help raise them so you have the strength to seek help. Call it a kick start if you will.
However, I do see your point about how dangerous they are. The stuff I'm on at the moment screws with me something shocking. If i forget to take it, I get the shakes, I throw up, and I crawl into the fetal position for as long as I can. Hey, it even screws up my sex life.
But I think it's all worth it.
I disagree.
The pro's to antidepressents outweigh the cons majorly.
I am on lithium now, a mood stabalizing drug, because I have bipolar disorder. However, before I was diagnosed I was on anti depressents (bloody doctors!
)I had been in a slump for 3+ years, and when the doctor put me on medication, i was more than happy (scuse the pun) to oblige. And yes, I believe they helped some. When you're depressed for a while the ceretonum levels in your brain drop down way too low, and the anti depressents help raise them so you have the strength to seek help. Call it a kick start if you will.
However, I do see your point about how dangerous they are. The stuff I'm on at the moment screws with me something shocking. If i forget to take it, I get the shakes, I throw up, and I crawl into the fetal position for as long as I can. Hey, it even screws up my sex life.
But I think it's all worth it.
Natural AntiDepressant - Exercise. Its true, your level of fitness can have baring on your mood, the more you exercise usualy mood improves.
As far as the drugs. I think Lithium is important, bipolar is a very serious illness and anything to help people with it is good, even though they should find something with less side-effects. Anti-Depressants, you should really need them if you're going to take them, I feel they're a cheat, like being happy for no reason, you should find some way to deal with your problems your self or with therapy before reaching for the pills.
As far as the drugs. I think Lithium is important, bipolar is a very serious illness and anything to help people with it is good, even though they should find something with less side-effects. Anti-Depressants, you should really need them if you're going to take them, I feel they're a cheat, like being happy for no reason, you should find some way to deal with your problems your self or with therapy before reaching for the pills.