A Request For Sciforum "Moderators"
- Thread starter (Q)
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Come now...If that is a Lord then I am a Eugene, except I still cannot pee standing up.
You could, if you tried.
I've got just the thing for you.
Bells
Staff member
It never claimed to be.
Then be thankful you have never seen Tiassa and I 'duke' it out. And we do it often enough.
Or nothing at all. As is often the case.
See, this is something that annoys me.GeoffP said:
You have already determined before anything is done about it, that nothing will come of it. It's such a negative attitude. How do you know nothing is done about it?
We discuss every action and we argue about 3/4 of them. We don't always agree and we don't always disagree. Complaints? We discuss those as well.
We also discuss what we notice on this site. Look at Balerion, as a prime example and his comments about how he really enjoyed discussing things with LG but we took that from him because we banned LG..
The reality was that in just about every single thread where LG and Balerion clashed, Balerion would demand that he be banned and often commented that he never understood how or why LG was still allowed to post here. Even after he was banned, Balerion stated:
And now they were best buds, whom Balerion really enjoyed talking to? Ermm okay. This would only be the case if Balerion really enjoyed feeding the troll. Or is he being dishonest about it and he only really enjoyed talking to LG because well, some big bad mod banned LG?
So which would it be?
This is the level of dishonest discourse we always have to contend with. So how would you respond to such a comment, knowing the years of history of absolute disgust that this member had towards LG? Go on, you claim anyone can do this.. If you were a moderator, how would you respond to Balerion's sudden Alzheimer about his very open feelings towards LG?
And now it has come to the point that not agreeing with certain members or not doing as they demand we do resulted in one being sent an email with offensive abuse and then harassment when said member spammed this moderator's private email with abuse after he was asked to stop. To this member, this is apparently nothing and a mere disagreement and he is offended that the moderator had to resort to asking him to stop in public and this member then inferred a threat to try to have him removed as a moderator because the moderator divulged some information from one of the emails he was spamming him with when the moderator was forced to ask him to stop in public, since he would not stop after he was asked to in the email. How would you feel if you were a moderator and a member took to emailing you abuse and then spamming your email with abuse after you ask them to stop, because you won't do what they demand? If you were a moderator, how would you handle such a situation? Who is the bad apple here? The moderator? Or the member? Who should face moderation? Do you think this is acceptable? How would you react?
This is the tip of the iceberg of what we have to contend with. It has led to one of my colleagues to openly say that this forum is made up of children and some of the things that has gone on in the last couple of months have made me, several times, rethink whether I even want to log on here. The latest email issue puts to mind issues of now possibly having to contend with being abused and harassed by poster's here outside of this forum and within our private domain. While this is now being fixed, so our private email address cannot be seen, the thought that some members would resort to something like this makes me, the bad apple, question some of what is said in threads such as this one.
I'll put it this way, if we were really bad vengeful apples, such members would be banned outright. They'd never have gotten the chance. And frankly, sometimes, after these last couple of weeks, I really am tempted to become the bad apple you often accuse me of being. Because if I was even an inch of what you often accuse me of, I'd never have vetoed your permanent removal and I simply would not care or take action when I noticed anything untoward. Because if I really was the bad apple you always accuse me of being, I simply would not give a shit either way about anything that happened to anyone on this site and I certainly would not spend hours of my day defending members like you.
And that is my honest opinion.
So you want to complain that you don't think anything gets done? Knock yourself out and one day, we'll be so sick of some of the crap we have to put up with here that nothing will actually get done about your complaints. In the meantime, we still do give a shit. So yeah, knock yourself out.
Eventually my legs would turn yellow though.
Well, yeah...there's always a downside...
I've got just the thing for you.
If that was in my pants I would be kinda worried that not only did I have a venereal disease but that it was dying too.
Absolutely! But moderators should give other people the same chance to 'blow off steam' that they themselves demand.
We often do; for example, it is why some people (such as Origin) have no infraction points - while they occasionally cross the line, it is just that - occasionally, and not in some egregious way, and as such a simple verbal reminder to be more polite/respectful is all that is needed.
Experience. Nothing happened on the previous ones.
I'll give you this: bad decisions have been overturned, threats mitigated, excesses curtailed. But they keep happening. I can get justice, granted: but I have to fight for it like a bastard every time one of the staff turns a jaundiced eye on my statements.
And there is nothing wrong with them. I go no further than my mod opponents, I generalize of no one, I contextualise my arguments and nuance my conclusions and what? Same thing: you have twenty-four hours to make good on a claim that I interpret you to have made, you dirty dirty GeoffP, or else it's mauve text and BANNING time for you, and I would SO like to ban you, because you deserve a good banning, and you're only still here because you have a pact with the devil/JamesR/certain unnamable extradimensionals! Etc., etc., Ia Ia Shub-Niggurath. I go no further in describing our occasional fights, but this is how they wind up; and those with another neighbour.
And then here and there, other staff members flaunt whatever the hell they like because, really? Really? You're either stupid or dishonest and you can pick any two of those and it just. Goes. On. Just once in these jousts I'd like to see a thread conclude without an attempt at excommunication or a dire sandwitch-board prophecy of well you just wait, you just wait until the hammer really falls on you, you dirty dirty GeoffP, and you get the pointy end of the very thing you're pushing for, and your little dog too. It's like a mid-day showing of Faust Moderates An Internet Forum. I've had this a couple times. Ever see Viva Zapata? It's got that flavour too. Fuck, if something's wrong, I'm going to say it's wrong. Or else I'll take my cue from T's dire imprecations about a year back and conclude that this is the way he wants it. Group declamation now ok? Fuck, whatever, I guess. Until that rule treads on the wrong toes and then it's back in the trenches. Pick one. I won't use it either way but pick one, for the love of Myuu!
That all - Geoff Out.
Speaking of dishonest discourse...
I said I enjoyed sparring with LG. I didn't say I liked him, I didn't say that he should never have been moderated. See, this is what people mean when they complain about the moderators here. You are intentionally misrepresenting history so you can appear to make a point. In reality, I called for LG to be moderated in the past, yes. I'm fairly certain that he had never been given a temporary ban. At least, in the years I had dealt with him, it never happened. There's a difference between asking for corrective action and asking that a member be thrown out permanently. But, again, you already knew that. I'm having to tell you this so others don't fall for your lies.
And whatever LG was guilty of in the past doesn't change the fact that he was railroaded when he was given the boot. He made the mistake of repeating a word to you that you said to him first, which allowed you to gasp and cry and feign injury as the victim--something you clearly can't live without--and continually quote him out of context to make it appear as if he were sexually harassing you. All because you and your BFF wanted blood, because neither of you have the emotional maturity to disagree with someone without dehumanizing them.
Case in point. You're blatantly misrepresenting my comments, both in the past and today. Yes, I believe corrective actions were needed against LG from time to time, and none were ever taken. I also enjoyed battling him, and he is only gone now because of your dishonesty. You have no argument without misrepresentation.
Second case in point. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. First, you're wrong. None of what you've said here is accurate. Secondly, it's none of your business. It was a private discussion between me and another person who was not you. You have no right to discuss my private conversations on this forum. But, here again, we come to the part where the rules don't apply to moderators.
Oh please do us all a favor and trust your instincts. Go, and don't come back. It would be a great boon to this community if your racist rants, your bullying, and your lying were absent forever from this forum. Please, please, please find a new place to torment.
Okay, now I'm demanding a retraction. You're full of shit. I posted my email in the ticket system because it asks for it. Kittamaru emailed me, not the other way around, you liar. I did not seek out his personal information, I did not track him down. He contacted me, and we carried on several conversations privately.
Cut the shit, and retract your statement.
Pathetic. Pathetic, intentional, slimy misrepresentation of the facts. Nothing is beneath you.
Unbelievable. You should ashamed of yourself.
I'm done with you, Bells. You have sunk to an all-time low, and I'm going to do all I can within the rules to see that you're removed. If I have to purchase the site itself, I'll see your moderatorship removed.
So, disagreeing with you and not respecting your religion is acting like a jackass? And, this is the way you moderators deal with people? Probably best to resign your position.
Yes, I was speaking for myself. Thanks.
Please refrain from telling me to refrain in the future.
All I did was make the point that your 'correction' overlooked two or three fairly basic points. It could have been avoided with some fairly trivial research. The only mistake I made was potentially being a little more brusque with you than was neccessary.
The 'insults' you suggest occured amounted to asking if it had occured to you that there might be some underlying points you were missing, spelling out three of those points, and then asking you if I needed to spell the implications of those points out to you. After that, in response to one of your posts I asked you if you found being corrected offensive.
For that I get inane rhetoric such as this: " He just didn't like me pointing out that they were different. Or... he's such a fan of LSD that he didn't like anyone speaking in anything in less than glowing terms about it."
The stupidist thing of all is that I have subsequently gone back, amended one post and deleted the other (no mod privleges required, they were less than 24 hours old) and apologized for being so brusque in the first place. But did you bother to mention any of that?
No, of course not.
Thank you, sir.
All I did was make the point that your 'correction' overlooked two or three fairly basic points. It could have been avoided with some fairly trivial research. The only mistake I made was potentially being a little more brusque with you than was neccessary.
The 'insults' you suggest occured amounted to asking if it had occured to you that there might be some underlying points you were missing, spelling out three of those points, and then asking you if I needed to spell the implications of those points out to you. After that, in response to one of your posts I asked you if you found being corrected offensive.
For that I get inane rhetoric such as this: " He just didn't like me pointing out that they were different. Or... he's such a fan of LSD that he didn't like anyone speaking in anything in less than glowing terms about it."
The stupidist thing of all is that I have subsequently gone back, amended one post and deleted the other (no mod privleges required, they were less than 24 hours old) and apologized for being so brusque in the first place. But did you bother to mention any of that?
No, of course not.
Apology is an underappreciated currency here. I made a mistake and jumped the gun with Bells several days ago, had it pointed out to me, and diffused the situation by apologizing. I also screwed up with Kittamaru yesterday, and apologized. You apologizing for your tone here is a big deal, and I would hope Arne has the integrity to return the favor.
So much could be accomplished if guilty parties would occasionally just own up to it. Apologies would help so much, but it seems there are several posters here incapable of such a simple, effective courtesy.
With regards to Balerion emailing me - at this point, I do not remember who emailed who first. It is possible I did reach out to him as part of handling the ticket - I don't have the original email chain so I can't go back and check. What ires me with the whole thing is that, after nearly a week of no email correspondence (with nearly all the previous correspondence having been polite and conversational), you respond to my decision on a ticket with "Stop being a cunt, the ticket system isn't your personal playground"... and then proceed to insult me at every turn, even going so far as to ask for a truce whilst also calling me a fuckface... then telling me I'm being a "terrible friend".
I'm sorry Balerion, if I initiated contact with you then you are, indeed, not some "creepy stalker"... you are only guilty of using my personal email as another venue in which you could berate, insult, and verbally abuse me.
And you know what... the worst part is that I don't actually have any desire to hold it against you... I have seen how rational you CAN be and what you CAN contribute to a discussion... I just wish you would stick to that instead of whatever this vengeful crusade you have launched yourself into is.
EDIT - actually, reviewing the ticket that prompted the email, I did initiate contact. I was not aware, however that it showed the sending email address as my own and thus replies went directly to my inbox. That failure is on ME and me alone; duplicating the steps to send an email directly from the ticket, it SHOULD have been obvious that was the case, as now (I am currently on my wife's computer using Chrome) it shows the gmail login screen when I do so. On my computer, I have a customized theme for Torch browser and the email box that comes up looks nothing like the gmail composition box I am accustomed to, nor did it ask me to login (as my gmail credentials are cached), nor does it show the address the email is being sent from. HOWEVER, had I been paying attention, I would have noticed the "mail.google.com" address in my address bar.
To that end - Balerion, you have my apologies; Bells, Balerion did not do anything malicious in finding/using my email address (excluding the content of the emails recently exchanged)
EDIT - here is the image of the composition pane that comes up on this computer (with the recipients email address removed, of course)
I'm sorry Balerion, if I initiated contact with you then you are, indeed, not some "creepy stalker"... you are only guilty of using my personal email as another venue in which you could berate, insult, and verbally abuse me.
And you know what... the worst part is that I don't actually have any desire to hold it against you... I have seen how rational you CAN be and what you CAN contribute to a discussion... I just wish you would stick to that instead of whatever this vengeful crusade you have launched yourself into is.
EDIT - actually, reviewing the ticket that prompted the email, I did initiate contact. I was not aware, however that it showed the sending email address as my own and thus replies went directly to my inbox. That failure is on ME and me alone; duplicating the steps to send an email directly from the ticket, it SHOULD have been obvious that was the case, as now (I am currently on my wife's computer using Chrome) it shows the gmail login screen when I do so. On my computer, I have a customized theme for Torch browser and the email box that comes up looks nothing like the gmail composition box I am accustomed to, nor did it ask me to login (as my gmail credentials are cached), nor does it show the address the email is being sent from. HOWEVER, had I been paying attention, I would have noticed the "mail.google.com" address in my address bar.
To that end - Balerion, you have my apologies; Bells, Balerion did not do anything malicious in finding/using my email address (excluding the content of the emails recently exchanged)
EDIT - here is the image of the composition pane that comes up on this computer (with the recipients email address removed, of course)
Bells
Staff member
We're not robots. You often repeat the same offensive behaviour that sometimes gets you moderated. So does everyone. People expect that we are robots. Some even don't want us to even post here at all. Just observe and moderate.
So, you get justice, but you're pissy because you need to argue your point and prove your case? Oh boo hoo for you. No, really, boo hoo.
What do you think we do in the back room? We argue our point and prove our case and we leave it to the others to judge whether they are worthy of moderation or not, and this happens with just about all issues of conflict that arise on this site, between members and with members and between staff. We learn the very hard way to never take things at face value and we all learned the awful lesson of what happens when someone does not prove their case.
If that was how it went, then you would not be here.
And if that was how we really were, you would definitely not be here. Neither would most people.
As I said GeoffP, if we were like you describe us, if it really was as you say, then things would be vastly different around here because we would not give a shit either way about your feelings.
And as I said before, if this was really what it was like, then you would not be here.
The expectation that we act like robots. Oh we can do that. We can not bother to get involved and just ban at will, without interaction and without discourse. Very easily. You complain that bad decisions are overturned but they keep happening. If we didn't give a shit, there would not be overturned. There would be no discourse. There would be no looking into the history of certain conflicts on this site and there would definitely be no discussion.
When you email a moderator call them a cunt because they are not doing what you want them to do about a complaint you have on this site and they ask you to stop emailing them and you keep emailing them, then it is an issue we all have to look into. You got so bad he had to bring it into the public forum to ask you to stop. That is not acceptable by any sense of the imagination. We did not sign up as moderators here to have people like you harass us on our personal email accounts. And the moderator in question certainly did not sign up for it. Instead of apologising for your actions, you react with rage and complain that he brought your harassment and abuse to light when he was forced to ask you to stop in public since you refused to adhere to his request that you stop harassing him on his private email? I don't care if it happened in a private conversation. What? You think that because it is via email, that you should be protected? Harassment and abuse by PM's on this site is also not allowed. It certainly isn't acceptable that you use the venue of his private email to do it in. It reminds me of when one member managed to find out the name and phone number of another member or staff here and called them up and threatened to get them fired for not doing what they wanted to do. You may think such actions are private and thus, is no one's business, but no, it is not. That member was banned immediately. So no, Balerion, just because you try to pull stunts like this in "private conversations" does not mean you get to get away with it.Balerion said:
You picked your target well though. Had you pulled that stunt on me, I'd have complained to your email provider and I would have requested you be banned permanently from this site. Thankfully the moderator you did it to is too nice to you. You certainly have not done anything to deserve it.
As for your comments about LG. Really, all of us who witnessed your vitriolic hatred of the man on this site know that you're pulling it out of thin air. So you're not really fooling anyone.
I went back on my personal desire of not speaking to you except in the event of having to. Because if I am to be honest, you are an exceptionally awful person to have to deal with or speak to. While I am sure the feeling is mutual, especially after reading some of the things you have said about me on other sites to the point where you were literally rejoicing that I was sick, my revulsion towards you is because of your inherent anger management issues, your absolute hatred, your dishonesty and your selfishness that dictates everything be about you. You are a very angry and hateful man Balerion and that is sad. But not so sad that I feel sorry for you. You don't post here for enjoyment. You post here to look for conflict and it is in just about every single post you make on this site. If you can't find a cause, you create one. There is not a thread that you post in here of late where you are not abusive or angry or looking for conflict. Not one. Now you have taken this type of discourse to email. And it's not acceptable. You may think it is, but it is not.
I am not going to ban you for speaking your mind about me Balerion. To be honest, knock yourself out. But rest assured, whatever you say will just reaffirm my belief that you are noxious and so full of hate, that it permeates every post you make here.