A question for anyone.

W

w30dogg

Registered Member
I am new to this board. I have questions. Hopefully I will refrain myself to one at a time.

I'll open one can of worms at a time. First with god.

I heard this somewhere but i cannot remember where. But it truly brings to my mind the paradox of a "God" figure.

"God is omnipotent. Therefore, God can do anything.
So by stating this, I now ask this question:
Can God create a boulder so heavy not even he can lift it?"

It might be overly simplistic, but it is how I think of "God".
What do you think?
 
If an omnipotent power decided -- for whatever bizarre reason -- to create an object that It could not lift, then I'm sure It could work something into the equation that prevented the lift. This question has always struck me as one of those semantics games, ultimately.
 
Hey w30dogg,

Welcome to the sciforums :cool:

If you are seeking God you might try searching from your heart.
The mind can create all manner of clever riddles, but when you're alone and feeling down the mind won't pick you up. Your heart can.
 
Greetings, w30dogg
I suppose if aforementioned omnipotent power *did* create an unliftable boulder that would only be possible if in the process they made themselves inomnipotent. Which raises the question of whether, as a semipotent figure, God would still *be* God.
Good question! :)
 
If you want to define omnipotence as being able to do anything, then yes God could do that - but in doing so, he would have to give up his omnipotence.
 
w30dogg said:
I am new to this board. I have questions. Hopefully I will refrain myself to one at a time.

I'll open one can of worms at a time. First with god.

I heard this somewhere but i cannot remember where. But it truly brings to my mind the paradox of a "God" figure.

"God is omnipotent. Therefore, God can do anything.
So by stating this, I now ask this question:
Can God create a boulder so heavy not even he can lift it?"

It might be overly simplistic, but it is how I think of "God".
What do you think?
Click to expand...

God must (by definition) be able to satisfy your curiosity, and leave you with the understanding that He couldn't lift the rock. But something tells me that if you somehow came into that type of contact you would lose interest in that silly request.

Try and serioiusly imagine the greatness of God and see what comes to mind.

Jan Ardena.
 
Nasor said:
If you want to define omnipotence as being able to do anything, then yes God could do that - but in doing so, he would have to give up his omnipotence.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as omnipotence. If he were omnipotent then he could do it without giving up his onipotence. U are putting a restriction on an omnipotent God here!
 
Try and serioiusly imagine the greatness of God and see what comes to mind.
Click to expand...
Hmmm....
[daydream]*image of god making boulder larger and larger whilst lifting it higher and higher for eternity*[/daydream]
Whoa!!!!
This guys a freak!
 
Hi there,

"And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God" (Luke 18:27).

And again


Matthew 28 :: New International Version (NIV)

The Resurrection

1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
2There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.

No matter how large that stone seems to man. God can move it. He made it. He can move it. By His command things come into being. By His command they will be destroyed and by His command they will be resurrected from the dead.

God can lift any sized stone.

peace

c20
 
omnipotent does not mean that God can do what is logically impossible... A better way to state this question would be....

Why can't God create a square circle?

The answer: Because Squared circles do not exist.

Your answer: Because stones that big do not exist.
 
Newtonian physics are provable in the everyday world.
It breaks down in both the Micrcosmos and the Macrocosmos.
Does your philosophy encompass all things Horatio?
The infathomable of Omnipotence does, hence God.
 
By definition, god is unknowable. In fact, I'd say if you believe in god you should by that definition, not pursue the idea because of the consequences of subjectivity. However, god is a circular belief. Once you're in, you're in until you reject, then you're out. I would say that god is ultimately, completely irrelevant by consequence its definition.

If there "is" a god, "he" designed it to be so - so take comfort in self. Be yourself, it's your gift. If there were a god who merely needed sycophants, I'd say: screw em.

Trust in god: Ignore the idea of god.

Shit why not take it one step further: Don't you dare worship god. Instead, be what you think god would be given your constraints.

Or just be you and try not to be a dick unless you have to. :)
 
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Dr Lou Natic said:
Hmmm....
[daydream]*image of god making boulder larger and larger whilst lifting it higher and higher for eternity*[/daydream]
Whoa!!!!
This guys a freak!
Click to expand...

It would appear you are reluctant to imagine God, and if you do (such as above), you imagine Him in a way that is less than His described status. Why is that?
Do you equate imagination with belief and therefore not bring yourself to imagining for fear of believing?
Daydreaming and imagining are quite separate states of mind. When we daydream it is usually imagining something or a situation we favour, something like wishfull thinking. Imagining is forming a meNtal picture of anything either favorable or infavorable. It is a powerful force/tool which should not be taken lightly. How many things we take for granted are the result of imagination?

Your daydream scenario shows the image of God (whom you must have imagined) creating boulders larger and larger, most likely trying to create something large enough so as He cannot lift it. Then it seems you appear to come to the conclusion that He fails (not quite clear). It seems to me that your imagination is somewhat limited in that it was unable to steer away from your rational thinking. For example, you equate heaviness with size, dimension and time, which is generally understandable given our (physical) realistic perceptions. But if God is defined as the Willful creator of earth (boulders 'n' all).
Why would you imagine Him having the same perceptions as us?
Why would increased size (larger), dimension (higher) and time (eternal) be a factor, to the defined God (almighty, cause of all causes, omnipotent)?

Try and be more open with your imagination.

Jan Ardena.
 
sevenblu said:
omnipotent does not mean that God can do what is logically impossible
Click to expand...

Actually it does. It is the ability to do anything. That is why I said it doesn't really exist.

If God can't create a square circle u have to ask yourself WHY?! Who designed this logic system that is above even GOD?!
 
Here's a deeper question - forgetting about the boulder, can God make himself inomipotent, including removing the ability to make himself omnipotent? If so, would he still be God?
 
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This reminds me of the Godel's Incompleteness Theorem:

"...within any given branch of mathematics, there would always be some propositions that couldn't be proven either true or false using the rules and axioms..."

"...within a rigidly logical system.. .. propositions can be formulated that are undecidable or undemonstrable within the axioms of the system. That is, within the system, there exist certain clear-cut statements that can neither be proved or disproved..."

The stated statement is like one of those undecidable statements and it itself does not prove or disprove the existence God. Also, I don't consider omnipotency a must-attribute of God.
 
Whatever you BELIEVE God can do, it will be done. God is based upon a BELIEF system and therefore cannot be tested as to what it can or cannot do because it is only "seen" through the eyes of those who BELIEVE not those who disbelieve.
 
geodesic said:
Greetings, w30dogg
I suppose if aforementioned omnipotent power *did* create an unliftable boulder that would only be possible if in the process they made themselves inomnipotent. Which raises the question of whether, as a semipotent figure, God would still *be* God.
Good question! :)
Click to expand...


Of course he would still be a god -> In Norse mythology Thor (the most powerful of all the gods) couldn't beat Eli (age, the flow of time), but that didn't make him a non-god,
also in Latvian mythology if our thunder god Perkons missed to ligtning strike a jods (powerful demon), that didn't make him a non-god just because he didn't hit.
 
If God can't create a square circle u have to ask yourself WHY?! Who designed this logic system that is above even GOD?!
Click to expand...

It is not that the logic system is above God, it is that we are so far away from the God. As a perfect omnipitent being, if he did actually create a square circle, we couldn't even concieve it. God's perfection limits us in our ability to know him... And in what do know of him, we create and experience by way of our own imperfections -- so because we cannot understand the concept of a square circle, our conception of God means that he cannot create one. Even as an omnipitent being, he is limited by the imperfections of what we can logically comprehend.
 
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