A little guidance would be nice

Don't agree with too much of that but no matter.

However one point. I don't think it is all that useful to say to someone that they should be more compassionate, or strive for happiness and so on. What they should strive for is a decent understanding of themselves and the world. It's odds on that this will lead to compassion and happiness, but when these things finally arrive they are genuine and stable, based on a solid basis of understanding and not just on a faith in someone else's advice, however well meant.

My advice (to which the same proviso definitely applies) would be don't believe anything at all that you're told unless you know why it must be true. Avoid all assumptions, however well hidden, and you'll probably end with a fairly Buddhist view, and be happy and compassionate for the reasons you've worked out for yourself.
 
I agree

"What they should strive for is a decent understanding of themselves and the world. It's odds on that this will lead to compassion and happiness, but when these things finally arrive they are genuine and stable, based on a solid basis of understanding and not just on a faith in someone else's advice, however well meant."

I concur canute, but I found that sometimes learning what is "real" is very depressing, alienating, and demoralizing.
During those times, it is most important to remain compassionate.
One you can appreciate the true reality, then a more pure form of compassion and appreciation of this world will arise.

I would just like to stress the importance of:
1. Not alienating yourself to become a loner. Remain compassionate towards the other individuals ignorance.
2. Do not try to change the world. Most people will not change, and have years and years of cultural influence. Many will not accept new ideas.
3.understand yourself and human nature. Read some freud and study some psychology.

But most importantly, this life is on borrowed time, and it must be enjoyed.
 
Re: I agree

I can agree with some of that. But...
Originally posted by Squashbuckler
I found that sometimes learning what is "real" is very depressing, alienating, and demoralizing.
Click to expand...
Perhaps sometimes it's like this, but (so far!) it's not my experience, in fact exactly the opposite. Of course that may change tomorrow.
3.understand yourself and human nature. Read some freud and study some psychology. [/B]
Click to expand...
Everyone has their own way of going about it, but I would disgree strongly with the second sentence, which seems a recipe for achieving eternal confusion. Still, each to their own.
 
"I found that sometimes learning what is "real" is very depressing, alienating, and demoralizing."

When you first take that step... you will become demoralized.
But gradualy, the more you learn, the more you wil learn to appreciate the world as it is.
 
soon you will reallise that you are at the bottom of another ladder

I like this topic because I am 18 and am starting to come to peace with my thinking.

I also found that most people I spoke to were stupid. Now I find that they are not. A developed human brain is capable of more or less the same things as any other (I mean that rather loosely). look to see what your freinds interests are, the happy ones might be happy because they know what their thing is and use their brain power on it, just because they can't talk to you about what you want to talk to them about is really your problem, the ways of thinking exhibited in this forum should be able to prove to you that their are quite alot of people out there who are not "enlightened". Maybe you grew up too quickly, I had hair on my balls before everyone else and I think the brain followed suit (not I am not talking about having pubes on my brain although that would be cool) . You are not super human, you are not right but you are not wrong. You probably require recognition for your intellegence (I'm not complmenting you everyone has intellegence that's part of being human). Be exceptionally self-critical and motivated and prove your intellegence to your self. If you write music compose a symphony. If you direct film win a film award etc.

learn more, read books by amazing authors. You will see that there are people that exist that are smarter than you and it will be humbling for you.

I have just learnt to listen to my parents who are university professors. I was so ignorant and ego-centric that I thought that they were dumb and that they had no clue about life. If your parents have earned enough money to buy you the computer that you now sit at then they are intellegent enough for you to talk to about life with. I wish I had found this forum when I was at this stage (which I am only just over(I am in my 4th month of a year stay in Germany with AFS and I have managed to gain insight into human thinking thanks to the whole stripping of culture and family) I probably wouldn't have taken so many drugs.
 
I haven't read her (and don't like the sound of her ideas from what's been posted here from time to time). Still I ought to check her out - what's the best of her titles?
 
for the rest of my life, any time Ayn Rand come sup, I think of the "Chicken Lover" episode of South Park:

"I officer Bar Brady, can't read!"
"Hello everyone! ......now I can read....I just finished 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand, and, I have to say, it was the worst thing I've ever read! Reading sucks! I'm never going to read again!"

:D


"Never trust a spiritual leader who doesn't know how to dance."
-the only good thing that came out of Karate Kid III
 
CANUTE!

Originally posted by Canute
I haven't read her (and don't like the sound of her ideas from what's been posted here from time to time). Still I ought to check her out - what's the best of her titles?
Click to expand...


Its great that your openminded canute..

Try to read "for the new intellectual" first...

then read....

"The virtue of selfishness"

The titles sound like far out garbage, but its worth the read..
It really changed my life believe it or not.
 
RIVERWIND!

Originally posted by river-wind


"I officer Bar Brady, can't read!"
"Hello everyone! ......now I can read....I just finished 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand, and, I have to say, it was the worst thing I've ever read! Reading sucks! I'm never going to read again!"
Click to expand...

Sounds interesting but i really dont get what is implied here? maybe im missing out?
can you explain it please river? id appreciate it.
 
SquashBuckler - Read some of Ayn Rand and don't agree with her at all. Objectivism just seems to be a bucket into which she has thrown her various views about this and that. Sorry. (But I'll read some more in case I've missed her arguments).
 
I think initially at a first glance everyone would say its garbage because its a bit "far out" and its very controversial.
Like everything, it must be taken with a grain of salt.
A lot fo her stuff should be discarded... she should talk to the dalai lama a bit more as well. =)
selfish bitch. =)
 
Squashbuckler. after reading this thread i took your advice and red "for the new intellectual" While I found the book interesting, she makes some interesting points, I didn't understand some points of it and wondered if you could explain(not to hassle you or anything, just curious)them. What are we to question in society(she seems to hate the "new" Liberalism", but doesn't bring up conservatism?), couldn't all "real businessmen"(i take she means the Rockefellers, etc) be called atillans since any form of egoistic and ruthless behavior is required to succeed in business but she states that she is for egoism. She also says a real scientist will be more successful since he knows his barriers(stone walls or something) while the witch doctors walks through the fog. How can this be true when we have new scientific improvements everyday not knowing what you will discover next, how can you then know your barriers. She doesn't even take in account several factors during the industrial revolution, all the pollution, what about slaves(i don't know about Europe but shes talking about the us.) who never ever got a chance(or is that more the wrongs of nature of man instead of the political system?). What is her views on art, while I believe reason and purpose is absolute she seems to say none of it but still give off a feeling of dislike for it. On a ending note, would the machines(or as stereotypical that they get in robot movies) in the Matrix be called the ultimate objectivity, denying completely the Descartes values of the humans. It again enforces the idea when i red in Rands book that Descartes brought about the witch doctors return, and since the machines are outside the matrix knowing the humans are in the matrix fighting this two side reality can see the absurdity of it just as rand says she cans. I know this might be some rambling shit, but i really wish to learn more about it, i will try to come up with some more structure thoughts next time.
 
ManMADE MACHINE

Im truly satisfied that you decided to take up a book and read about ayn rand. =)
Its that kind of open mindedness that will allow yours,(and anyone elses for that matter) minds flourish.
Unfotunately, im not going to answer those questions right now.
She eventually covers all of it in her books and lectures.
Remember though, she is an extremist... and i dont completely agree with her ideas. I tend to believe that she lacks true compassion, which is important in human relations. She is such a realist though, that her books are just great reads.

If you want to know more her views on politics, ethics, read " the virtue of selfishness"
If you want to learn about ehr views on art..
Read " The romantic manifesto"

"She also says a real scientist will be more successful since he knows his barriers(stone walls or something) while the witch doctors walks through the fog."

I believe she is referring to the fact that a scientist knows exactly what he is doing, he knows his limits and what he is studying, his purpose has factual evidence to back it up.
The witch doctor (religion) has very little grasp on reality and just moves forward blindly without asking any questions.
The scientist asks questions and constantly strives for the truth.
this is what she believes in striving for, the truth. Not a truth based on an abstraction, but a truth based on factual evidence.


Keep reading more and more and youll son understand my friend :p

Im so happy you read that book......

A=A
 
I have to say that her philosophy doesn't stand up to logical analysis, and seems to be based on temperamant rather than logic and deduction. I would be completely mystified as to why she has a 'foundation' and so on were it not for the fact that her philosophy supports commercial laissez faire and scientism.

I wasn't going to say that until I read some more but I'll stick my neck out. It seems clear from just the introduction to her ideas.
 
Sounds to me that you are discovering that knowledge is the food for the mind. As you learn more, you grow. It affects you both in how you see the world and how you see others. Don't get me wrong here, there is nothing wrong with learning.

However you may feel you will need your fellows. It does not matter that all they are interested in is beer and bbq, you will still need those around you.

You have some more knowledge yet to pick up. That of humanity...
 
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