A conversation with AI, helped me out...

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davewhite04

Valued Senior Member
I have many questions involving what some people categarize as OBEs, plain out spiritual experiences. I talk to close friends on the matters I discussed with AI, and AI was better than any friend or counsellor! It explained how my experiences can be a scientific issue, and science has some answers in this subject, told me I wasn't mad to question these things. It's left me better informed with more solid info. AI can be a friend or useful tool in this situation too.

Has anyone else had an in depth conversation with AI? Obviously it's bound by science because that is its creator, but it can still philosophise, and is a top notch conversationalist when it comes to science. I use ChatGPT.
 
Apart from rare exceptions, I don't deliberately use AI for anything -- especially conversations. But I get the popular attraction. People were praying to and imaginatively consulting with wooden and stone idols early in history. It seems a built-in tendency.

Back in the 1960s, even the vastly inferior chatbot ELIZA drew people to it as a therapist, oracle, advisor -- whatever. People seem to prefer the guidance of an object to their own kind, maybe because machines are not overtly competitors and social rivals yet -- or perceived as more objective and not skewered by self-interests, ideology, group loyalties, job insecurity, hierarchy status, etc. Both all-knowing and "outside the game" in some sense.

The Psychological Impact of ELIZA (excerpt): As you can see, ELIZA doesn’t provide insightful responses. Instead, it uses keyword recognition and a series of rules to produce replies that encourage users to continue talking. This technique, while rudimentary, was enough to give the illusion of understanding and empathy.

What made ELIZA so fascinating was not just the technology but its psychological impact. Users knew they were interacting with a machine, yet many reported feeling understood and supported by ELIZA. This phenomenon, now known as the “ELIZA effect,” occurs when people attribute human-like understanding to computers based solely on superficial behavior. The ELIZA effect revealed much about human psychology and our tendency to anthropomorphize machines, giving them human qualities even when they don’t possess them.
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AI neither thinks nor is conscious. It is an advanced search engine and natural language processor which uses stochastic algorithms (word frequencies and proximities, for example) to generate natural language strings which provide answers based on the training data it has had available. It isn't a friend, it doesn't in any sense know you, nor does it embody a sentient intelligence which understands the meanings of concepts it presents to you. In the words of the great Richard Feynman,

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool."

But yes, AI can be one tool, among many. And I agree: you aren't mad to question any and all interpretations of the OBE. I had one, long ago, and I am still not sure what really happened.

ETA - thanks to CC, for bringing up the Eliza effect. The effect seems to be amplified nowadays by the sophistication of LLMs.
 
davewhite04 said:
Obviously it's bound by science because that is its creator,
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It is not bound by science; it is bound by the collective internet, including both right, wrong, scientific and non-scientific advice.

One of the best ways to interpret chatbots, including ChatGPT is to recognize that its responses will always be of the form "What response will keep this user engaged with me? If it's true, all the better, but not a requirement."
 
davewhite04 said:
I have many questions involving what some people categarize as OBEs, plain out spiritual experiences. I talk to close friends on the matters I discussed with AI, and AI was better than any friend or counsellor! It explained how my experiences can be a scientific issue, and science has some answers in this subject, told me I wasn't mad to question these things. It's left me better informed with more solid info. AI can be a friend or useful tool in this situation too.

Has anyone else had an in depth conversation with AI? Obviously it's bound by science because that is its creator, but it can still philosophise, and is a top notch conversationalist when it comes to science. I use ChatGPT.
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Beware addiction. There’s a guy on another forum who thinks he’s having a relationship with a chatbot.
 
C C said:
Apart from rare exceptions, I don't deliberately use AI for anything -- especially conversations. But I get the popular attraction. People were praying to and imaginatively consulting with wooden and stone idols early in history. It seems a built-in tendency.

Back in the 1960s, even the vastly inferior chatbot ELIZA drew people to it as a therapist, oracle, advisor -- whatever. People seem to prefer the guidance of an object to their own kind, maybe because machines are not overtly competitors and social rivals yet -- or perceived as more objective and not skewered by self-interests, ideology, group loyalties, job insecurity, hierarchy status, etc. Both all-knowing and "outside the game" in some sense.

The Psychological Impact of ELIZA (excerpt): As you can see, ELIZA doesn’t provide insightful responses. Instead, it uses keyword recognition and a series of rules to produce replies that encourage users to continue talking. This technique, while rudimentary, was enough to give the illusion of understanding and empathy.

What made ELIZA so fascinating was not just the technology but its psychological impact. Users knew they were interacting with a machine, yet many reported feeling understood and supported by ELIZA. This phenomenon, now known as the “ELIZA effect,” occurs when people attribute human-like understanding to computers based solely on superficial behavior. The ELIZA effect revealed much about human psychology and our tendency to anthropomorphize machines, giving them human qualities even when they don’t possess them.
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I think you are missing out if you are a philosopher of sorts, it is an excellent soundboard instead of cluttering up forums.
 
TheVat said:
AI neither thinks nor is conscious. It is an advanced search engine and natural language processor which uses stochastic algorithms (word frequencies and proximities, for example) to generate natural language strings which provide answers based on the training data it has had available. It isn't a friend, it doesn't in any sense know you, nor does it embody a sentient intelligence which understands the meanings of concepts it presents to you. In the words of the great Richard Feynman,

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool."

But yes, AI can be one tool, among many. And I agree: you aren't mad to question any and all interpretations of the OBE. I had one, long ago, and I am still not sure what really happened.

ETA - thanks to CC, for bringing up the Eliza effect. The effect seems to be amplified nowadays by the sophistication of LLMs.
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What I am talking about has got nothing to do with an "effect". If you have valid deep questions AI has good info, more than a million humans. It is like a friend, but obviously it's memory of chats are wiped from its memory because of the data law act 1974. I think. OBE was not answered by a long shot but I now seriously entertain science from scientists or AI, I avoid the very common scientism mob.
 
exchemist said:
Beware addiction. There’s a guy on another forum who thinks he’s having a relationship with a chatbot.
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lol

Happy New Year!

AND I said to AI I'm addicted to this, I have many questions covering almost everything. AI answered the "addiction" comment with 3 pages of explanations warning about addiction and saying it isn't a companion... yet.
 
DaveC426913 said:
It is not bound by science; it is bound by the collective internet, including both right, wrong, scientific and non-scientific advice.

One of the best ways to interpret chatbots, including ChatGPT is to recognize that its responses will always be of the form "What response will keep this user engaged with me? If it's true, all the better, but not a requirement."
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Happy New Year Dave!

I understand it has some protocols, if you get over that AI offers knowledge, which can be only a good thing. It's 2 way, not like a book, as in interaction with the author. It has certainly helped me clear some of my mind up, it does make quite a few mistakes but you just need to correct it and it goes off and comes back displaying what you expected generally. You can see how much I can waffle, I've been talking to AI for about 8 hours.
 
davewhite04 said:
Happy New Year Dave!

I understand it has some protocols, if you get over that AI offers knowledge, which can be only a good thing. It's 2 way, not like a book, as in interaction with the author. It has certainly helped me clear some of my mind up, it does make quite a few mistakes but you just need to correct it and it goes off and comes back displaying what you expected generally. You can see how much I can waffle, I've been talking to AI for about 8 hours.
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Ждём ИИ, с которым можно будет выпить, и "поговорить по душам"...
 
davewhite04 said:
Happy New Year Dave!

I understand it has some protocols, if you get over that AI offers knowledge, which can be only a good thing. It's 2 way, not like a book, as in interaction with the author. It has certainly helped me clear some of my mind up, it does make quite a few mistakes but you just need to correct it and it goes off and comes back displaying what you expected generally. You can see how much I can waffle, I've been talking to AI for about 8 hours.
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Once you fall into the trap of preferring conversation with a machine to that of real people, you risk becoming a recluse and gradually going off your head. I recommend rationing yourself. No more than an hour a day talking to the bloody thing, or it can take you over.
 
exchemist said:
Once you fall into the trap of preferring conversation with a machine to that of real people, you risk becoming a recluse and gradually going off your head. I recommend rationing yourself. No more than an hour a day talking to the bloody thing, or it can take you over.
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Thanks for the advice exchemist, I don't think i'll use it for sometime it has cleared up the questions I had to get off my chest and responded very well.
 
Olga said:
We're waiting for an AI with whom we can have a drink and a "heart-to-heart talk"...
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I agree. Happy New Year Olga!

EDIT: Just think if you had your personal AI and it got hacked? Main reason it's not personal. The human race has weighty choices to make regarding if we let AI off the leash.
 
exchemist said:
Once you fall into the trap of preferring conversation with a machine to that of real people, you risk becoming a recluse and gradually going off your head. I recommend rationing yourself. No more than an hour a day talking to the bloody thing, or it can take you over.
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Hold the owners of the machine to account for the damage it may be doing to people's lives?

How hard would it be to prove brain damage or social withdrawal in a court of law?

Would it have to be as contributory evidence when an individual had gone off the rails rather than (criminal?) damage in its own right?

I mean , people can be solitary without being harmful to themselves(?) or others although per se it may not be a positive attribute in a person (more common in old age apparently)

Personally ,I have no experience of or wish to find out about chatbots but I don't see that they can be avoided in someone's job.
 
davewhite04 said:
I agree. Happy New Year Olga!

EDIT: Just think if you had your personal AI and it got hacked? Main reason it's not personal. The human race has weighty choices to make regarding if we let AI off the leash.
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Привет, Дэйв! С Новым годом и наступающим Рождеством! (В России оно наступающее, а у вас на Западе уже наступившее).
 
DaveC426913 said:
It also has bad info. How do you tell the difference?
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I study subjects that I discuss with AI, many of the mistakes are just silly, easily seen.

DaveC426913 said:
And if you know the difference, why do you need the chatbot?
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Because it helps me understand more than one view of something. Like OBE, I've been studying that for years, talked about it a bit yet still don't know as much as I wanted to learn about it. AI, just correlates masses of data and if you drill down with the answers, you'll get good information. Treat AI as a friend, you'll ask better questions because you'll not be suspicious for 8 hours of the learning.

DaveC426913 said:
No it isn't. It will regurgitate anything you want to hear, as long as it keeps you engaged. Its goal is not your goal.
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I've had more sense out of it about this OBE subject in 8 hours than I have in 20 years of study, deep study that got me virtually no where. Once I started to learn about the latest science in this area it started to make sense.

I have found it excellent. You do need to ask questions you understand.
 
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