# 4th dimension is extension of 3rd dimension. A world within worlds

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by akabrutus, May 2, 2020.

1. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

Messages:
13,077
Physics is what it is

We tame physics down to our level of understanding through the language of mathematics

3. ### river

Messages:
17,307

Highlighted

True .

Meanwhile the Physical Universe continues . Regardless of wether there is a intelligent life contemplating mathematics or not .

5. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
The Universe is a mathematical geometry. It has a name, it is a mathematical pattern that has duration and can be described in mathematical terms as a " manifold".

Shape of the universe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_universe

I like the genus 1 (2 dimensional) torus. It's simple and mathematically perfectly suited for self-formation. Throw a rock in a lake and watch the spreading wave function naturally form a circular wave action in 2 dimensions. Anything more complicated runs into Occam's razor.

Torus

As the distance from the axis of revolution decreases, the ring torus becomes a horn torus, then a spindle torus, and finally degenerates into a sphere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torus#:~:text=It is a compact 2,a surface in 4-space.

This is how the wave function becomes expressed on a torus surface.

Wave dynamics on toroidal surface
Abstract

Fig. 1 (a) Schematic of torus coordinates with usual parametrization. The energy density of (b) reflected wave on a 2D torus. (c) free wave on 2D torus. (d) reflected wave on 3D space torus. (e) free wave on 3D space torus. The geometric parameters used in calculating the effective permittivity and permeability are R1 = 3 m and R2 = 3/2 m, the corresponding frequency is 10GHz.

https://www.osapublishing.org/oe/abstract.cfm?uri=oe-26-14-17820#Abstract

7. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
Also true and it continues to function in a mathematical manner, regardless if there is an intelligent living thing contemplating the observable and symbolized "relative values" and "mathematical functions".

8. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
How do you get anything without anything physically existing.

Don't forget, physical patterns (including humans) are formed from elementary "values" and are an expression of mathematically evolved simpler patterns. The physics involved are always of a mathematical nature in that they have inherent values and must function in accordance with mathematical permissions and limitations.

9. ### river

Messages:
17,307
And have no relation to reality , at all .

10. ### river

Messages:
17,307
Define " it " .

Based on real physical objects , in any state .

11. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
Which proves the mathematical nature of physics. That is the very definition of "proof".

Physics is not a natural phenomenon. It is a scientific discipline for studying naturally forming mathematical patterns and interactive functions.
Physics consists of modeling Universal constants with human mathematics by measuring the physical expression of universal mathematical patterns and functions from prevailing relative physical values and mathematical functions.

The definition of Physics doesn't say anything about the nature of the universe. Mathematics do!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics

And we found that the universe behaves in a mathematical manner which can be symbolized with human mathematics.

12. ### river

Messages:
17,307
But doesn't explain the physical reality , of reality .

Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
13. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
Physical reality is only observable as mathematical patterns. It is the density of the pattern, the inherent values and potentials, that makes an individual or a collection of mathematical objects observable. Can we see the air we breathe to stay alive? Yes, when its cold enough for the H2O content to form a "mist" (a mathematically ordered physical function).

But if we did not have actual recording instruments our observation of anything would be reduced to a mental "best guess" by the brain.

Schematic depiction of a function described metaphorically as a "machine" or "black box" that for each input yields a corresponding output.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_(mathematics)

Messages:
27,543
Every man and his dog know our accepted theory of the evolution of the universe, the BB/Inflationary model is incomplete, but it is still the best by far that we have.
And even when we finally aquire an observational valaidated QGT, it will certainly most likely contain the BB, much as GR gives the same answers as Newtonian in sufficiently accurate applications.
But that's 21st century cosmology river, something you obviously are totally ignorant of.

Messages:
27,543
Not disagreeing with your take and the articles in answer to river's well know nonsensical ignorant and usual claims, but simply put, mathematics is the language of physics, and physics describes the universe [or reality] around us and the principals [described by maths] of the physical world/universe.
And that totally puts pay to his silly gobbledygook claims.

16. ### river

Messages:
17,307
Highlighted

Table of Elements and the like , true .

And those patterns are physical , before any mathematics .

17. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
No, mathematics form the patterns. Patterns are not physical constructs, they are mathematicl constructs.
A triangle is not a physical thing. It is a mathematical thing.

18. ### river

Messages:
17,307

Highlighted ;

Based on physical things .

Put another way , how would mathematics explain real existence , physically ; without any thought given to the physical as the foundation of the mathematics ?

Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
19. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
"Probability density" of the values contained in the mathematical patterns .

What Does Quantum Theory Actually Tell Us about Reality?
Nearly a century after its founding, physicists and philosophers still don’t know—but they’re working on it.

Note the density patterns.

20. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
No, mathematics are not based on physical things. They hold in the abstract as well. Mathematics is an abstract property (potential) of spacetime and has non-conscious, but "quasi intelligent Agency"......

Messages:
17,307

22. ### river

Messages:
17,307
Highlighted

Fundamentally mathematics is .

What is the foundation of the abstract .

23. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

Messages:
19,976
Logic.

But you're posing the wrong question. Mathematics is not a result of physical interaction. Physical interaction is the result of pre-existing mathematical functions. The way things work.