A Gun control solution - perhaps

[Quantum Quack]

​

You seemed to prefer kids die rather than teachers.

hey, I see ya man... no problemo... it's just that you know there is every chance another school is going to get shot up even if you arm teachers...you know all that surprise the shooter uses... aint no stoppin' ím. Bango 20-30 - 50 dead including Mr Jones.
so how we gunna stop the the nut job getting his 'ands on a gun or two or three?

What can we do to stop him (the nutter) from tarnishing our gloooorious NRA record?

 

[Vociferous]

NRA Not Really Awake...
Those kids are your future Vociferous.... they will determine whether the NRA lives or dies.

Even if the organizers for the DC march are correct, 800,000 people marched versus 4.55 million copies of Call of Duty sold in the US.

The gamer community had a near-miss this week in Ohio, when a 15-year-old boy collapsed after playing "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" for up to five days straight.
https://www.livescience.com/22281-teens-video-games-health-risks.html​

Go on... ask em ... should a teacher die first or the students die first...
What do you think they would say...??

I asked you. Why is it so hard for you to simply say teachers should die first?
I assume most kids would agree with me, that teachers should protect students.

hey, I see ya man... no problemo...

What, you saw the exact same post twice? Good for you.

it's just that you know there is every chance another school is going to get shot up even if you arm teachers...you know all that surprise the shooter uses... aint no stoppin' ím. Bango 20-30 - 50 dead including Mr Jones.
so how we gunna stop the the nut job getting his 'ands on a gun or two or three?

Shooters pick soft targets. Schools would not be soft targets with armed teachers.
There have been plenty of suggestions on how to keep the mentally ill from getting guns, like the existing laws that would have stopped Parkland, if they had been enforced.

 

[sculptor]

The NRA was organized by an ex army officer in the "civil" war (what a silly name "civil" war).
Anyway, he was dismayed by the poor marksmanship of the men under his command and decided that some serious training was in order.
And the NRA still offers weapons training to police, and civilians. (some of the police, it seems, could use some more training)

Bottom line
The NRA is the strongest ally of gun control. They help people to learn gun respect, safety and marksmanship.
If you cannot control a gun, it would be best of you either learned, or avoided them.
Gun control is simple
Hit what you aim at and only what you aim at.
Don't shoot yourself or others by accident.
Learn how to take it apart, clean it, and reassemble it.
and
Voila you will be in control of the gun.

As to the right to own/keep and bear:
It seems that it is those who do not own weapons who would deny others their rights.
People who would deny others their rights deserve none themselves. They are tyrants and it was their kind that fostered the first amendments to the constitution.
The would be tyrants were not an aberration of the 18th century, they are still with us. Shun them.

 

[Tiassa]

Bottom line
The NRA is the strongest ally of gun control. They help people to learn gun respect, safety and marksmanship.
If you cannot control a gun, it would be best of you either learned, or avoided them.
Gun control is simple
Hit what you aim at and only what you aim at.
Don't shoot yourself or others by accident.
Learn how to take it apart, clean it, and reassemble it.
and
Voila you will be in control of the gun.

What makes that so damnably laughable is that it is somehow a violation of people's rights to hold them accountable.

The NRA is a sick joke.

As to the right to own/keep and bear:
It seems that it is those who do not own weapons who would deny others their rights.
People who would deny others their rights deserve none themselves. They are tyrants and it was their kind that fostered the first amendments to the constitution.
The would be tyrants were not an aberration of the 18th century, they are still with us. Shun them.

It's not a matter of keeping and bearing arms, and after all these years the sickness of your cheap appeal makes its own point.

When obligations to responsibility are regarded as infringement of the right to keep and bear arms, such that we're not going to prosecute because the guy feels really badly about killing his own son—(by improperly handling a handgun he was illegally carrying because it would be just wrong, you know, because what, are you trying to make him feel worse, and why would want to make him feel worse, for chrissakes, his son is dead!)—the rest of society is tired of hearing it.

So skip the two-bit propaganda; it makes nice pitch, but so-called "responsible gun owners" of American society just won't be held to account under law.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I asked you. Why is it so hard for you to simply say teachers should die first?
I assume most kids would agree with me, that teachers should protect students.

Perhaps you need to stop playing COD and get into the real world a little.. eh?
A teacher armed or not is a sitting duck when the element of surprise is all in the hands of the shooter.
All arming teachers is going to do ( even indicating that they may be armed) is to encourage the shooter to target the teacher first instead of second or third or fourth. Either way armed or not the teacher is now being targeted.

An armed teacher can not protect any one let alone him/herself when the element of surprise is involved.
No one should die, first or second or other...
Remove the element of surprise and perhaps you have a legitimate position..
Standard class size is what? 30's with one teacher...
Your disingenuous approach to the issue is another example of the NRA on the back foot.

Why not take personal responsibility for aiding and abetting or other wise facilitating the mass slaughter of school children with the use of legal firearms in the USA?
Why can't you?

 

[Quantum Quack]

The primary 2 reasons why Stephan Paddock was so successful in killing so many people in the Las Vegas Shooting (58 dead + 851 injured)
1) He had the element of surprise.
2) Easy access to legally purchased semiautomatics converted to automatic.

What is the solution to removing the element of surprise?

Ask any wanna be suicide bomber ...

 

[Quantum Quack]

Say here in Australia,
just your average guy..
If I wanted to do the USA style, suicidal shoot em up routine how would I do it?

Military style Semi Automatic Rifles are essentially only available on the black market.

I would have to approach a criminal organization (biker gang- Mafia) to buy an excessively overpriced weapon. I would be lucky if I managed to get a modern weapon with out getting my throat slit in the process.
This takes time and a shit load of money and by then I may have found a better way to deal with my extreme sense of injustice.

Result:
No mass shoot em up routine ( or very unlikely)

Perhaps instead I use a legally purchased but illegally modified db shotty instead and take a few hostages in a coffee shop.
Result:
3 dead out of a possible 18 or so. ( one of the deaths was, regrettably, from friendly fire)
see Martin Place
If you can't see the huge difference then you could never be seen as responsible enough to own any firearms. Period. IMO

 

[sculptor]

Do you recognize this?
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed ..."

Heads up
(the story didn't end there)

 

[Quantum Quack]

silly question withdrawn...

 

[sculptor]

One of my philosophy professors once said:
"The only stupid(silly?) question is the one not asked."

 

[pjdude1219]

Even if the organizers for the DC march are correct, 800,000 people marched versus 4.55 million copies of Call of Duty sold in the US.

The gamer community had a near-miss this week in Ohio, when a 15-year-old boy collapsed after playing "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3" for up to five days straight.
https://www.livescience.com/22281-teens-video-games-health-risks.html​

just what is up with your meaningless obsession with call of duty? its clear your trying to blame it for violence and not the gun porn your ok with. and your wrong. video games don't cause violence also it took call of duty a decade to clear 4.5 million copies sold. it was released in 2003 and didn't hit 4.5 million copies sold world wide until 2013. call of duty:WW2 the most recent game( title matters due try to keep up) the most recent game did sell 4.55 million copies in the us how i don't know its the fucking sports games of shooters but i digress however it also fails to pro your lie as it actually sold ever so slightly better in europe that the US at 4.56 million copies to 4.55 million and europe does have anywhere near the gun deaths or violence the Us does so that real undercuts your argument. also the series as a whole has sold over 300 million copies at least i'd say third of were state side. so to sum up do you even have a point or is this just more of your dishonest intellectual masterbation?​

 

[billvon]

Bottom line
The NRA is the strongest ally of gun control. They help people to learn gun respect, safety and marksmanship.
If you cannot control a gun, it would be best of you either learned, or avoided them.

But if you cannot control it, the NRA will fight to the death for your right to buy as many of them as you want.

Gun control is simple

Here's an even simpler concept - take guns away from the insane and the disturbed. When "gun control" means that a murderer can put a round into the head of a 12 year old girl from 50 feet, then someone else has to take control of his guns.

It seems that it is those who do not own weapons who would deny others their rights.

Nope. Indeed, intelligent people who own guns are often the strongest advocates of greater restrictions to prevent mass murders, school shootings and use of guns by the disturbed and insane. They do not fear restrictions that make society safer. The weaker intellects are easy prey for the NRA, who use fear to control such people.

Anyone remember the "Obama will grab your guns" angle by the NRA? Think the people who bought that hook, line and sinker feel stupid today? Or are they continuing to let the NRA deceive them?

People who would deny others their rights deserve none themselves.

And people who enable murderers do not deserve to have their opinions taken seriously.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Do you recognize this?
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed ..."

Heads up
(the story didn't end there)

Why not take personal responsibility for aiding and abetting or other wise facilitating the mass slaughter of school children with the use of legal firearms in the USA?
Why can't you?

ok let us rephrase one of the questions:
Why not take personal responsibility for a constitution that is aiding and abetting or other wise facilitating the mass slaughter of school children with the use of legal firearms in the USA?
Why can't you?

 

[Quantum Quack]

"I hope that it shows the rest of America that students aren’t just students, and we’re not afraid to speak out about what we believe in, and since we went through this horrible tragedy, something good has to come out of it, and people like Emma and people like Delaney, and Alex and everyone that spoke yesterday, are really making a difference and they’ll continue to make a difference because they won’t be silenced."


src: http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/march-for-our-lives/9587710​

 

[Quantum Quack]

The constitution is secondary to the issue of responsisibility IMO

 

[iceaura]

I'm sorry, your "observations", if one can call it that, has been to attempt to shut down anyone whom you know happens to favour gun control in some way

And as so often with you, "everyone" and "anyone" has returned to the arena. You have a lot of frogs in your pockets.
That is just silly.
I am - as of so far - the predominant forum poster of suggestions for effective and popular legislation and enforcement that would reduce gun killings in America. That would make me - in the view of the sane - the predominant proponent of gun control on this forum. So far.

I am also on repetitive record agreeing with the one or two other suggestions by other posters along those lines, as they occasionally and sparsely appear - such as my repeated posted agreement with Tiassa that legislating and enforcing specific personal accountability is an effective and available approach (such as "no accident forgiveness" written into law, one of the measures I specifically endorsed and argued for). (That's another one a majority of the public supports, including a majority of NRA members - another wedge point available to split off the reasonable from the demented).

All we've seen from you is attempted slander of anyone not on "your side", a side that apparently consists of 'guns are bad, therefore only the government should possess guns, and any means which appears to further that agenda is better than the status quo' - followed by mocking those who fear outright confiscation of most firearms from Americans by their government, because all authoritarians are irony blind).

only if your piss ignorant of history like you are. sore ice no matter how many times you stamp your feet and repeat the lie it will not ever make it true. so you admit you agree with the extremist NRA belief that the second amendment was all about personal gun ownership?

Why are you granting the NRA ownership of plain facts?
The NRA leadership is demented - certifiably. It should be isolated in its dementia. As with similar lobbying organizations related to climate change, civil rights, drug laws, etc, it should be the only voice of irrationality and unreason in the arena. It should be the only "side" with "I can't think straight" tattooed on its forehead.

When "both sides" adopt irrational and unreasoning reality denial as the center of their arguments, the arbiter will be power/money - which the American military-industrial complex has enough of to bury thousands of schoolchildren.

as written the second amendment is impotent to prevent almost all gun control measures.

Hold that thought. That is also plain fact. That kind of plain fact will win, if you don't bury it under piles of illiterate stupidity and slander.

the price for my ideas is time and loss of convenience while making it harder criminals to get guns.

You have no such ideas posted here. I do. Paragraphs of them, with arguments in their defense.

Will you ever have anything to say about those suggestions and arguments of mine? Because you can win, that way. You can get gun control, in America, in a matter of months. If you don't screw up the midterms with your inchoate threats and slanders, you will have the politicians you need and the laws that can work by December of 2018.

That's a big "if".

 

[iceaura]

Shooters pick soft targets. Schools would not be soft targets with armed teachers.

Sure they would. And they would also be scenes of accident, interpersonal assault, mistaken identity killings, suicides, theft supply, budgetary woes, and poorer teacher preparation.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43540708

https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Supreme-Court-hears-Sandy-Hook-families-12356072.php

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-court-case-making-gun-makers-anxious-1521192601

 

[sculptor]

The constitution is secondary to the issue of responsisibility IMO

How, exactly, would you suggest that we regulate "responsibility" in such a way that the regulation is innocuous to the bulk of the citizenry?

If you want to lay it off on the NRA
The 3rd leading cause of death in this country is usually medical mistakes.
Would you support suing the AMA (who lobby for fewer medical schools) for those deaths?

On many fronts, this country is broken. Medical care is the leading cause of bankruptcy, mental health facilities were gutted long ago, and then many of the people who used to survive in the 1/2 way houses became housed in prisons(at a much higher cost to the tax payer). We waste far too much of our money on regime change wars that do nothing positive, and have been linked to the growing world wide rise in terrorism.
It seems that our government and lobbyist are shining beacons of irresponsibility, If true, how then can you expect them to successfully regulate responsibility?

The thing is that many of the mass murderers could have been stopped before the event is we had a society that looked out for each others well-being.
If you could understand the rage of inner city youths who join gangs and subsequently commit murder, then perhaps there would be a path to a compassion that would guide them in a better path?

Gun violence ain't the disease in this society, it is just one of the symptoms.

 

[pjdude1219]

Why are you granting the NRA ownership of plain facts?

im not. the NRA rarely says anything factual. no matter how many times you repeat a lie it doesn't become fact so why do you. if you'd like ill break down exactly why your silly notion is bug fuck crazy but since your claim is inherently that for 150 years people knowingly violated the constitution it will be fun to make you look like a raving loon.

The NRA leadership is demented - certifiably. It should be isolated in its dementia. As with similar lobbying organizations related to climate change, civil rights, drug laws, etc, it should be the only voice of irrationality and unreason in the arena. It should be the only "side" with "I can't think straight" tattooed on its forehead.

it is which makes your unquestionaing acceptance of their propaganda your undoing. sorry ice you don't get to label your self a moderate when you our in lockstep with extremists.

When "both sides" adopt irrational and unreasoning reality denial as the center of their arguments, the arbiter will be power/money - which the American military-industrial complex has enough of to bury thousands of schoolchildren.

untrue. one side the pro-gun is irrational and has an unreasoning denial of reality and responsbility which you are a whole sale part of. the pro gun control side is neither of those things you attack it and slander it in hopes it wont succeed

Hold that thought. That is also plain fact. That kind of plain fact will win, if you don't bury it under piles of illiterate stupidity and slander.

says the person who acts as if anyone who disagrees with his bs is a dundering twit who cant clothe themselves. you slander anyone who questions the NRA propaganda you spout.

You have no such ideas posted here. I do. Paragraphs of them, with arguments in their defense.

Will you ever have anything to say about those suggestions and arguments of mine? Because you can win, that way. You can get gun control, in America, in a matter of months. If you don't screw up the midterms with your inchoate threats and slanders, you will have the politicians you need and the laws that can work by December of 2018.

That's a big "if".

more lies. their not your ideas ice. you playing a false flag you dont believe in any of it. their our ideas mine and bells and tiassa's people who want gun control. your trying to make sure they don't happen by making us look nuts. my ideas are simple which ive stated before. universal background checks, a national gun registry, and a refusal to allow domestic abusers guns. violent behavior should disqualify you from gun ownership. also licensing. its time for the culture of irresposbility that you whoelheartedly support to end. you are not part of the solution you are the fucking problem.