Why do most people find science boring?

Barnett,
At first meeting these facts are difficult to digest but that is simply because classical physics assumed, unjustifiably, that an object preserves the same dimensions whether it is in motion or at rest and that a clock keeps the same rhythm in motion and at rest. Common sense dictates that this must be so. But as Einstein has pointed out, common sense is actually nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down in the mind prior to the age of eighteen. Every new idea one encounters in later years must combat this accretion of “self-evident” concepts. And it is because of Einstein’s unwillingness ever to accept any unproven principle as self-evident that he was able to penetrate closer to the underlying realities of nature than any scientist before him.

Nope, that is not proof that those are Einstein's words - that is evidence that Barnett interpreted that as what Einstein meant. Then again, given that you consider that proof... it explains a lot about why you constantly cry that you are being "unfairly targeted" when proof is demanded... I would say try again... but, we both know you will just repeat the same tired bullshit... after all, you have a several weeks old question still waiting for answers.

In an a legal sense you may be right, that quote would legally be considered as "hearsay" and therefore legally inadmissible as testimony in a court of law.

Moreover, the use of quotation marks to indicate this was a actual quotation of Einstein's actual words, may be inappropriate in this case also as the actual sentence was perhaps a loose translation of Einstein's words by Barnett..

Thus, in a technical sense, I agree with you.

However, is it really relevant as to IF Einstein actually said something like that in conversation with Barnett.
How would Barnett be able to cite specific substantive phrases, such as "common sense", " deposit of prejudices", "prior to the age of eighteen", if he had not personally witnessed Einstein saying something to that effect?

If Barnett's recollection or interpretation of Einstein's actual words are suspect, then would that not disqualify the entire statement of Barnett as "fruit of the poisonous tree"?
Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to describe evidence that is obtained illegally.[1] The logic of the terminology is that if the source (the "tree") of the evidence or evidence itself is tainted, then anything gained (the "fruit") from it is tainted as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree
The legal result is inadmissability of the entire tainted statement.

Note the use of the term "poisonous tree" over the use of the term "poisoned tree". There is a subtle but profound implication in the use of that specific phrase.

Are you prepared to call Barnett (the Tree) incompetent or dishonest in his interpretation of what Einstein personally conveyed to him. If so, are you prepared to dismiss Barnett as a "poisonous tree"?
 
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I'm not referring to you specifically - I apologize if I came off as such. I admit - I've become a bit grumpy with the influx of pseudoscientific rubbish we've seen lately - doubly so with the recent changes in software and the "kid gloves" policy
Thank you for confirming that. I'll be less likely to complain about the trolling. Realizing that there is no precedent for the complaint.
 
In an a legal sense you may be right, that quote would legally be considered as "hearsay" and therefore legally inadmissible as testimony in a court of law.

Moreover, the use of quotation marks to indicate this was a actual quotation of Einstein's actual words, may be inappropriate in this case also as the actual sentence was perhaps a loose translation of Einstein's words by Barnett..

Thus, in a technical sense, I agree with you.

However, is it really relevant as to IF Einstein actually said something like that in conversation with Barnett.
How would Barnett be able to cite specific substantive words, such as "common sense", " deposit of prejudices", "prior to the age of eighteen", if he had not personally witnessed Einstein saying something to that effect?

If Barnett's recollection or interpretation of Einstein's actual words are suspect, then would that not disqualify the entire statement of Barnett as "fruit of the poisonous tree"?

The legal result is inadmissability of the entire tainted statement.

Note the use of the term "poisonous tree" over the use of the term "poisoned tree". There is a subtle but profound implication in the use of that specific term.

Are you prepared to call Barnett (the Tree) incompetent or dishonest in his interpretation of what Einstein personally conveyed to him. If so, are you prepared to dismiss Barnett as a "poisonous tree"?

At this time, I am not - primarily because I know little of his works, his integrity, or his understanding of Einstein.

I am, however, unable to find a single source that states Einstein actually said what is being attributed to him - rather, his point was that conventional knowledge will be continually tested as we discover more and more about the universe we inhabit - IE, that as our understanding grows, what is considered "common knowledge" will change as a result, and that we have to be malleable in our concepts of what is true because of this.

It doesn't mean that things like good judgement or the scientific method should be tossed out for every flight of fancy someone poses
 
Thank you for confirming that. I'll be less likely to complain about the trolling. Realizing that there is no precedent for the complaint.

I would ask that you continue to report such things - my hope is that if the site leadership sees a renewed interest in actual academic discussion and good debate that things will change for the better
 
At this time, I am not - primarily because I know little of his works, his integrity, or his understanding of Einstein.

I am, however, unable to find a single source that states Einstein actually said what is being attributed to him - rather, his point was that conventional knowledge will be continually tested as we discover more and more about the universe we inhabit - IE, that as our understanding grows, what is considered "common knowledge" will change as a result, and that we have to be malleable in our concepts of what is true because of this.

It doesn't mean that things like good judgement or the scientific method should be tossed out for every flight of fancy someone poses

True and True

We have just begun our understanding of this Universe.

We haven't even gone into space yet. Someday we will. Then we will know won't we Kitt.
 
True and True

We have just begun our understanding of this Universe.

We haven't even gone into space yet. Someday we will. Then we will know won't we Kitt.

ER... what? We have most certainly gone to space - we got people up there right now in the International Space Station
 
True and True
We have just begun our understanding of this Universe.
We haven't even gone into space yet. Someday we will. Then we will know won't we Kitt.
Of course we have got into space.
We certainly have a lot to learn, but just as certainly have extrapolated our gathering of knowledge over the last 100 years or so, ten fold.
We have now in a period of the first space effort until now, 60 years around, been to every planet in the solar system.....We have four emissaries on there way to the stars...We have three active robot emissaries on Mars.
We've come a long way and have a long way to go.
 
At this time, I am not - primarily because I know little of his works, his integrity, or his understanding of Einstein.
Frankly, I had never heard of Barnett, so I cannot vouch for him either.
I am, however, unable to find a single source that states Einstein actually said what is being attributed to him - rather, his point was that conventional knowledge will be continually tested as we discover more and more about the universe we inhabit - IE, that as our understanding grows, what is considered "common knowledge" will change as a result, and that we have to be malleable in our concepts of what is true because of this.

It doesn't mean that things like good judgement or the scientific method should be tossed out for every flight of fancy someone poses

Yes, you do have a single source who states that Einstein said this to him personally, or at least something to that effect, Barnett himself. If it was a private conversation without other witnesses, then Barnett would be the one and only source. Thus it comes down to the veracity of Barnett's story.

The only reason why I pursued this minor point is that in a previous post I said something very similar, from my own understanding of the "conditioning to commonly held beliefs", during the formative years of children. So, I don't really care who else said it, other than that it seems to confirm my own viewpoint.

But no matter, it is a minor point.
 
I would ask that you continue to report such things - my hope is that if the site leadership sees a renewed interest in actual academic discussion and good debate that things will change for the better
I agree, but the OP as presented, was never an academic scientific question or even a theory.

That is why I suggested earlier that the thread be moved to Psychology (not Alternative Theories), because that's where the OP question really belongs and can be properly addressed by experts in the Human Sciences.

Otherwise, I completely endorse your resolve to clean up the entire forum. Ad hominem does not belong on any forum frequented by civilized people seeking civil informative discourse.
 
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At this time, I am not - primarily because I know little of his works, his integrity, or his understanding of Einstein.

I am, however, unable to find a single source that states Einstein actually said what is being attributed to him - rather, his point was that conventional knowledge will be continually tested as we discover more and more about the universe we inhabit - IE, that as our understanding grows, what is considered "common knowledge" will change as a result, and that we have to be malleable in our concepts of what is true because of this.

It doesn't mean that things like good judgement or the scientific method should be tossed out for every flight of fancy someone poses
I would ask that you continue to report such things - my hope is that if the site leadership sees a renewed interest in actual academic discussion and good debate that things will change for the better
It's kinda tough in my estimation. To moderate very technical subjects you need folks who are expert on the topics discussed and be willing to be involved consistently. When I joined you had three young PHD's. Even so you didn't have a consistent protocol for dealing with cranks. There's other great stuff about this site.
 
It's kinda tough in my estimation. To moderate very technical subjects you need folks who are expert on the topics discussed and be willing to be involved consistently. When I joined you had three young PHD's. Even so you didn't have a consistent protocol for dealing with cranks. There's other great stuff about this site.

Good points.
The thing is bruce, these cranks and alternative nuts have no other outlets, and forum's such as this draw them like a moth to a flame, hoping that they can create confusion, disrupt legitimate scientific discussions and be a total nuisance.
Certainly more heavier moderation is required to give assistance to those at present that are run off their feet at times, specifically when we are attacked by thos spamming idiots.
 
Good points.
The thing is bruce, these cranks and alternative nuts have no other outlets, and forum's such as this draw them like a moth to a flame, hoping that they can create confusion, disrupt legitimate scientific discussions and be a total nuisance.
Certainly more heavier moderation is required to give assistance to those at present that are run off their feet at times, specifically when we are attacked by thos spamming idiots.

I find those that insult others are insecure about what they know. They can't fathom a deeper understanding.
 
I find those that insult others are insecure about what they know. They can't fathom a deeper understanding.
Not really. People that are interested in science find them totally disruptive and trollish, such as yourself as you have proven over the years.
 
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