Is Science a value system?

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Russ_Watters said:
but while MR has specifically chosen a "pure research" area as a main example, he's improperly used it to support his idiotic claim that ALL science is useless. Since HE chose the example, he certainly recognizes the distinction.
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Well put, and therein lies the totally inane and anti science persona that this fanatic continues to exhibit.
 
Imagine that: criticizing the value of science while being totally ignorant of it. Maybe you should learn some science before trying to decide if it has value?
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So how are Maxwell's equations involved with the building of a computer? How did they lead to the invention of the first computer? Perhaps YOU should educate yourself before blindly supporting a claim.
 
Again, you should learn some science before criticizing it. You almost certainly use satellites many times a day, even without knowing it. If you do any of the following:

-Read/watch any news.
-Watch TV
-Use a cell phone.
-Check a weather report.
-Use the internet.

Or, indirectly:
-Eat.
-Get deliveries.
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I have cable not satellite TV. I don't own a cellphone. And I use Verizon as my internet server. Today I will eat a can of soup that I purchased from the store without the use of a satellite. And no deliveries are scheduled today. So no, satellite usage is not an imperative for getting thru my day. Not that the science of astronomy had much of anything to do with the invention of satellites.
 
Magical Realist said:
So how are Maxwell's equations involved with the building of a computer?
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Maxwell's equations led to an understanding of current and voltage and how they interact. As a very simple example, Maxwell's Equations describe how magnetic fields form and how current can be transformed into magnetic field and back - and how the current that creates the field is influenced by the field itself. This led first to core memory (the first large scale computer memory) and then to tape, floppy and hard drives for information storage.
As another example, Maxwell's Equations form the basis of understanding semiconductor physics, and thus transistors. They made possible the first transistorized computer (the Manchester computer) as well.
 
Magical Realist said:
They use Maxwell's equations to make computers? I was unaware of that. I thought the first computer was mechanical anyway---Charles Babbage's Differential Engine?
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That wasn't a computer. It was a mechanical calculator, like a fancy abacus. The ENIAC was the first computer, and yes, it did indeed rely on the principles that Maxwell put forth in his laws. (Movement of electrons in an electrical field.)
 
billvon said:
Maxwell's equations led to an understanding of current and voltage and how they interact. As a very simple example, Maxwell's Equations describe how magnetic fields form and how current can be transformed into magnetic field and back - and how the current that creates the field is influenced by the field itself. This led first to core memory (the first large scale computer memory) and then to tape, floppy and hard drives for information storage.
As another example, Maxwell's Equations form the basis of understanding semiconductor physics, and thus transistors. They made possible the first transistorized computer (the Manchester computer) as well.
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I think you are referring to Ohm's law. I don't see the relation of Maxwell's equations to anything involved in computing. As far as electronics is concerned, I attended Navy electronics school and not once was there a reference to Maxwell's laws.
 
Magical Realist said:
So how are Maxwell's equations involved with the building of a computer? How did they lead to the invention of the first computer? Perhaps YOU should educate yourself before blindly supporting a claim.
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Please wiki it and paste the first sentence of the article here. You should have already at least googled it and I have no intention to try to spoonfeed you knowledge that you don't really want.
 
Magical Realist said:
I have cable not satellite TV. I don't own a cellphone. And I use Verizon as my internet server. Today I will eat a can of soup that I purchased from the store without the use of a satellite. And no deliveries are scheduled today. So no, satellite usage is not an imperative for getting thru my day. Not that the science of astronomy had much of anything to do with the invention of satellites.
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None of that is accurate wrt how satellites are used every day. Virtually any TV you watch has spent some part of the trip to you bouncing off a satellite, for example, and intercontinental internet transmissions often do too. And the can of soup was delivered to the store with the aid of GPS. not to mention the crops were grown with the aid of GPS and weather satellites.

But of course, you already knew all of that and are just trolling.
 
Magical Realist said:
As far as electronics is concerned, I attended Navy electronics school and not once was there a reference to Maxwell's laws.
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You didn't learn about Maxwell's equations in a Navy electronics school because technicians don't need to understand the foundational science to fix things. You only need the science to design them.
 
Magical Realist said:
No article listed.
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Use your brain, MR. I'm certain that with 3 seconds of thought, you can find the article I am referring to. Yes, I could spoon feed you, but my goal is to force you to think.

Edit; actually, the second sentence of the article is more explicitly/succinctly on point.
 
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Magical Realist said:
I think you are referring to Ohm's law.
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No. Ohm's Law doesn't speak to magnetic permeability, magnetization, effects of saturation or any of the other half dozen concepts that you need to get (for example) core memory to work. Knowing only Ohm's Law you would be hopelessly lost trying to design core memory.
I don't see the relation of Maxwell's equations to anything involved in computing. As far as electronics is concerned, I attended Navy electronics school and not once was there a reference to Maxwell's laws.
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Right. And people who train to be a car mechanic never once hear about the work of Nikolaus Otto, Robert Boyle or Giovanni Venturi - even though they would not have a job without the concepts those people developed.
 
billvon said:
Right. And people who train to be a car mechanic never once hear about the work of Nikolaus Otto, Robert Boyle or Giovanni Venturi - even though they would not have a job without the concepts those people developed.
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I wonder if that's what this is really about; an inferiority complex over being technician vs a scientist/engineer?
 
No. Ohm's Law doesn't speak to magnetic permeability, magnetization, effects of saturation or any of the other half dozen concepts that you need to get (for example) core memory to work. Knowing only Ohm's Law you would be hopelessly lost trying to design core memory.
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I will concede that it plays a role in the development of magnetic memory. But bear in mind the first computers didn't have this sort of memory. So its doubtful Maxwell's equations were crucial to the actual invention of the computer.

http://gizmodo.com/5498229/delay-line-memory-how-computers-remembered-before-ram
 
Use your brain, MR. I'm certain that with 3 seconds of thought, you can find the article I am referring to
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I have no intention of second guessing what article you are referring to that you didn't post.
 
Magical Realist said:
I will concede that it plays a role in the development of magnetic memory. But bear in mind the first computers didn't have this sort of memory. So its doubtful Maxwell's equations were crucial to the actual invention of the computer.
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You are being intentionally dense here by trying to overly limit the scope of the discussion point. That's a key tactic you are using in the thread; downplaying the role of science by ignoring virtually all of its impact and focusing instead on one tiny piece of a subject where it may not apply. Obviously, no matter how limited you try to make the example, the reality is that the impact is VAST. Ignoring the rest of it doesn't make it go away, it just shines a bright spotlight on your trolling.

The fact of the matter is that what is described in Maxwell's equations underlies modern electrical and communications technologies; anything that uses electricity has at least some basis in Maxwell's equations.
 
You are being intentionally dense here by trying to overly limit the scope of the discussion point. That's a key tactic you are using in the thread; downplaying the role of science by ignoring virtually all of its impact and focusing instead on one tiny piece of a subject where it may not apply. Obviously, no matter how limited you try to make the example, the reality is that the impact is VAST. Ignoring the rest of it doesn't make it go away, it just shines a bright spotlight on your trolling.
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Ahh..but then I wasn't the one who claimed Maxwell's equations led to the invention of the computer, was I? So whatever scope is in this claim, it was set there in the very beginning.

The fact of the matter is that what is described in Maxwell's equations underlies modern electrical and communications technologies; anything that uses electricity has at least some basis in Maxwell's equations
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Hmmm....no electrical circuits before the formulation of Maxwell's equations?

"A relay is a remote switch controlled by current, magnetism, or temperature. The relay was invented in 1835 by Joseph Henry (1979-1878), an American scientist. It made modern telegraphy possible and evolved into the repeater- thus the relay- a remote controlled switch, was in effect the first ( Electronic) device, though not anything involving crystals, diodes, vacuum tubes etc. The first invented Relay was used as part of his telegraph system circa 1844. It was used in long distance telegraph circuits, repeating the signal coming in from one circuit and re-transmitting it to another. Since then, relays found extensive use in telephone exchanges and early computers to perform logical operations."
 
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