Iraq Falls Apart

[sculptor]

What should we do, nothing?

Wei-wu-wei, "the action of nonaction, " is the central paradox of Taoism and as a concept is second in importance only to the Tao itself.
Which doesn't actually mean "do nothing", but, rather that accomplishing goals may be done differently than a frontal assault.

alternately
there is more than one way to skin a cat

We often use a sledge hammer for a job better done with a pair of tweezers.

 

[sculptor]

So let me get this straight. You were pulling a trailer and it was swaying side to side. So you then went 90 MPH and after that mishap you had the idea to suddenly slam on the brakes?

Wow!

Yeh-----started out at 55, then kept accelerating through a series of accelerations to straighten the trailer out--------It did work well for awhile.
So, I tapped the brakes and saw all lanes of cars behind me dip their noses as they braked also, then turned into the skid as i locked up the brakes--------we had 3 lanes and a slow truck lane to play on, and i used most of them.

Helluva ride.

 

[Arne Saknussemm]

Wei-wu-wei, "the action of nonaction, " is the central paradox of Taoism and as a concept is second in importance only to the Tao itself.
Which doesn't actually mean "do nothing", but, rather that accomplishing goals may be done differently than a frontal assault.

Wow! I wonder if George Washington was aware of wei-wu-wei when he made his departing address advised America to stay out of foreign affairs.

(Sorry, just felt like a little alliteration)

 

[spidergoat]

...
The new world order is "DEBT" we spend money we don't have on silly meaningless little wars so that we may put our country in debt so that we cannot disengage from the new world order.
Credit card wars are quicksand.

The New World Order is a world of peak fossil fuels, for which wars will be fought to secure supplies, and debt used to make up for diminishing available capital. The alternative is the promise of anti-growth which is politically suicidal to acknowledge.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Iraq Falls Apart I thought was this thread was about, it seems to have gotten of course.

Anyway if you'll look back to my earlier posts when the Iraq war started I stated that this would be the result after America leaves. I just wonder why they kept staying on there and never really doing much in order for there to be peace. So many lives spent and a trillion dollars gone and this is what Americans get .

 

[Arne Saknussemm]

Iraq Falls Apart I thought was this thread was about, it seems to have gotten of course.

Anyway if you'll look back to my earlier posts when the Iraq war started I stated that this would be the result after America leaves. I just wonder why they kept staying on there and never really doing much in order for there to be peace. So many lives spent and a trillion dollars gone and this is what Americans get .

cosmictraveler, you're really George Bush senior, aren't you. C'mon now!

 

[Motor Daddy]

Hmm. Don't know that I want to restart the whole America as isolationist, rogue state or World Cop discussion again. It's been done. I am not sure what we should do. Ideally America would mind its own business, and save ourselves a lot of time, trouble and money, and it just might be that the world would rejoice if we did so. What are our interests really? Aren't they just Mobil Exxon and Lockheed Martin's interests?

In an ideal world everybody you meet would hand you a $100 bill and ask if you needed any help with your laundry, or trash removal. Possibly even wash and wax the car!

But I digress, the world we live in is much different. In the real world people get on airplanes and fly them into buildings on purpose, to see how many people they can kill, and how much fear they can inflict. In the real world, leaders like Hitler get the idea that the world is theirs for the taking. In the real world the Japanese fly over our warships and bomb the hell out of them. In the real world there are bad guys! Not so many good guys anymore.

 

[joepistole]

You're a great Monday morning quarterback, Joe. Tell me, since it's only Wednesday, how is this one gonna play out? What should we do, nothing?

Well you don't have to be much of a Monday morning quarterback to understand if you spend more than you earn you are going into debt.

I don't have a crystal ball. So I don't know what will happen. But thanks to Georgie Junior's bungling Iraq is a no win situation. If the US wants a democratic government in Iraq, it has no choice but to support the current government and work to bring each side to the peace table.

 

[Arne Saknussemm]

doubled post -please delete

 

[Arne Saknussemm]

In an ideal world everybody you meet would hand you a $100 bill and ask if you needed any help with your laundry, or trash removal. Possibly even wash and wax the car!

But I digress, the world we live in is much different. In the real world people get on airplanes and fly them into buildings on purpose, to see how many people they can kill, and how much fear they can inflict. In the real world, leaders like Hitler get the idea that the world is theirs for the taking. In the real world the Japanese fly over our warships and bomb the hell out of them. In the real world there are bad guys! Not so many good guys anymore.

In a real world where the U.S. had been isolationist, or was just much less imperialistic, no one would think to fly planes into our buildings, Japan would not have viewed us as a threat, and, well. okay, I guess someone had to sort Hitler out.

 

[spidergoat]

In a real world where the U.S. had been isolationists, or was just much less imperialistic, no one would think to fly planes into out buildings, Japan would not have viewed us as a threat, and. well. okay, I guess someone had to sort Hitler out.

Nonsense. Al Quida has stated that one reason for attacking the US was our support of Israel, and supporting Democracy in East Timor. And even if they don't attack us, they are murder on other Muslims, which should be our concern if we care about human rights at all.

 

[Motor Daddy]

In a real world where the U.S. had been isolationists, or was just much less imperialistic, no one would think to fly planes into out buildings, Japan would not have viewed us as a threat, and. well. okay, I guess someone had to sort Hitler out.

So your defense strategy for the country is to sit back and wait for them to attack us?

Is there ever a time when you would look at the present intelligence and decide that something needs to be done in advance of them attacking us first?

 

[Arne Saknussemm]

Nonsense. Al Quida has stated that one reason for attacking the US was our support of Israel, and supporting Democracy in East Timor. And even if they don't attack us, they are murder on other Muslims, which should be our concern if we care about human rights at all.

Ho hum. Again you don't read before responding. An isolationist, or less imperial nation, would not have supported Israel, and supporting democracy in Timor L'este, and we would not overly concern ourselves with human rights abroad. Really, Al Qaeda attacked Manhattan because of Timor? You're kidding?

And do you really imagine America is concerned about any one's human rights? Corporate rights sure, and their right to go on exploiting foreign lands in one way or another, but not human rights. How many tinplate dictators has the U.S. installed to protect its money?

And look how the U.S. treats its own. I remember in the Carter years, Jimmy and the gang tut-tutting over the Soviet Union for human rights violations. They shot back, get the the millions of homeless people off the streets of America, and then lecture us about human rights.

 

[sculptor]

If we stay out of it, would Qasem Soleimani's Quds force eventually reign in Al-Qaeda in Iraq?

Would an independent Kurdish state be a bad thing?
I remember reading that the main benefit for the Iraqi Kurds was protection in/of a unified Iraq's military. If that protection becomes worthless, will the Kurds still want to participate?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Iraq has been falling apart ever since the first US invasion, even as they declared "victory" upon leaving its only now that the US press has chosen to focus on that fact. There was no, nada, zilch Al Qaeda activity in Iraq before the invasion. It was the invasion by US troops that gave Al Qaeda a new fighting front. So the Americans should pat themselves on the back on a job well done in spreading terror around the world. Dum, dums.

 

[GeoffP]

This is shaping up to be a major crisis, getting very ugly, very fast.

Come on, look at the upside!

... like, every time the ISIL wins another victory, those five guys that got traded for the deserter become mathematically less important.

 

[Motor Daddy]

Come on, look at the upside!

... like, every time the ISIL wins another victory, those five guys that got traded for the deserter become mathematically less important.

The Army will get to the bottom of it. He's going down!

...and there are some seriously tough questions for Mr. Obama and his crew to answer.

 

[cosmictraveler]

When America entered into Iraq many people, including myself, wanted to get Saddam and then leave. Well within a year Saddam was in prison and that's when America should have left that country because the goal that we were told was to get Saddam not rebuild a nation.

To many lives lost and nothing to show for it.

 

[Gage]

Combating Al-Qaeda and their affiliates in these areas, only goes to popularize and protract their causes..
It should be noted that Osama bin Laden wanted a U.S. invasion in the middle east. And during the Iraq invasion Al-Qaeda proliferated, which prior to was etiolated.
Of course we shouldn't stick our heads in the sand while all this occurring, but we could adapt more surgical tactics better suited for this problem.
And above and beyond all else we need to realize that terrorism in general is a interminable problem that won't be solved any time soon.

Either way it's sad to see the vanity of our efforts in Iraq. I remember posting several news articles on here months back, (car bombings, prison escapes etc), foreshadowing this. Hopefully the Iraqi airforce isn't inept. But I really don't think it'll be long until we see these guys in Baghdad.

Sad.

 

[joepistole]

When America entered into Iraq many people, including myself, wanted to get Saddam and then leave. Well within a year Saddam was in prison and that's when America should have left that country because the goal that we were told was to get Saddam not rebuild a nation.

To many lives lost and nothing to show for it.

Yeah, we have down that road before. It's called WWI & WWII. You leave a mess, you might not like what emerges from the rubble. I mean what could happen with Islamic extremists controlling Iraqs oil wealth?