Space observation/scientific outpost:

P

paddoboy

Valued Senior Member
OK, we have the ISS, but it does have a "use by date"
Where else in our solar system would be most scientifically beneficial for another scientific outpost?
Here are a few options:
On the Moon:
At one of the Moon/Earth L points:
On a short period Asteroid:
A Venus orbital station:
An outpost on the planet Mercury:
All have advantages and disadvantages.
Any other?
 
paddoboy said:
Where else in our solar system would be most scientifically beneficial for another scientific outpost?
Click to expand...

How about a string of satellites on a trajectory that was stationary with respect to the center of the Milky Way?

We could then make astronomical observations without 3 different levels of spin.
 
Do you mean manned outposts? Manned outposts really aren't all that useful versus their cost.
 
Russ_Watters said:
Do you mean manned outposts? Manned outposts really aren't all that useful versus their cost.
Click to expand...

I did mean manned yes.
But of course I'm speaking of the future, and those two horrible variables of politics and economics do change.
I actually probably see the Earth/Moon L1 point as the most favourable but it is unstable...Or the Earth/Moon L2 as long as we have a relay station on the Moon to convey messages between Earth and Moon. Again this is also unstable.
Both though economically speaking would be advantagious. Access to Lunar water from the Moon would be an advantage.
 
LaurieAG said:
How about a string of satellites on a trajectory that was stationary with respect to the center of the Milky Way?

We could then make astronomical observations without 3 different levels of spin.
Click to expand...

Interesting concept.
I'm trying to think that through.
Our star, the Sun [hence the Solar system] orbits the galactic center at about 800,000kms/hr taking 250 million years to make one revolution.
I'm not sure how your idea would work....can you give more detail?
 
paddoboy said:
Interesting concept.
I'm trying to think that through.
Our star, the Sun [hence the Solar system] orbits the galactic center at about 800,000kms/hr taking 250 million years to make one revolution.
I'm not sure how your idea would work....can you give more detail?
Click to expand...

Hi Paddoboy,

It's a bit like laying a trail of breadcrumbs through a dark forest except the breadcrumbs are satellites. These satellites act as a fault tolerant communications backbone to relay observational data, recorded by multiple specialist satellites, back to Earth. The desired trajectory could be achieved within the limits of our current technology.
 
Here's my idea:

3 satellites (minimum).

One each at the sun-earth L2, L4, & L5 points. I'd love to get one at L3, but then you'd have to relay through L4 and/or L5.
Each satellite consists of a main radio dish and several ancillary radio dishes.

The basic idea is, especially if the L3 station can be incoporated, is that the main dish makes observations while the ancillary dishes watch the same 6 pulsars. The idea being to us ethe timing glitches from the pulsars to integrate the signals and try and create something like the VLBA, only on a much larger scale.

The best part is you could have multiple satellites at the various lagrange points - although these would probably have to track their distances relative to each other.
 
Sol 3.
- The good points!
Perfect conditions/environment - note : "manned".
Minimal transportation costs.
Minimal maintenance costs.
Quicker, less expensive reconfiguration costs.
Minimal Life Support/Protection costs.
Quicker/easier staff changes.
No astronaut training involved.

- A few possible bad points!
Little to no romanticized Star Wars/Star Trek entertainment "value".
More transparency - covert/military operations suffer more scrutiny.

All in all, Sol 3, still seems like the best choice to me.
 
dumbest man on earth said:
All in all, Sol 3, still seems like the best choice to me.
Click to expand...

See post 6.




Trippy said:
Here's my idea:

3 satellites (minimum).

One each at the sun-earth L2, L4, & L5 points. I'd love to get one at L3, but then you'd have to relay through L4 and/or L5.
Each satellite consists of a main radio dish and several ancillary radio dishes.

The basic idea is, especially if the L3 station can be incoporated, is that the main dish makes observations while the ancillary dishes watch the same 6 pulsars. The idea being to us ethe timing glitches from the pulsars to integrate the signals and try and create something like the VLBA, only on a much larger scale.

The best part is you could have multiple satellites at the various lagrange points - although these would probably have to track their distances relative to each other.
Click to expand...



Great Innovative Imaginative ideas, along with Laurie's proposals.
I do envisage Satellites at many L points throughout the solar system, for research, communication, and observations.
Satellites as I have mentioned elsewhere, are probably the greatest ever benefits to mankind to have so far come from space exploration.
In an advancing space faring society, I see that as essential.

Lagrange points would also be very beneficial for, "storing" and/or "parking" fuel outposts....or stop off refueling ports for further afield space exploration.

Manned space stations at selective L points, also has the advantages of minimal fuel requirements for more distant ventures, including eventual stellar exploration. But that is much further afield of course.

No one has mentioned Mars as yet. :)
Mars of course is a near certainty in having a permanent base or outpost within a hundred years or so.

Other considered innovations and ventures include NASA plans to one day visit an NEO Asteroid, and also the considered possibilities of Asteroid mining in the course of time, lead by "Planetary Resources"

Great times forecasted ahead for future generations, and probably many more benefits for human kind to be forthcoming as we advance and go further afield.
 
Stupid phone.

I think DMOE means good old Terra rather than the L3 point, however, until he responds to your question in post 6 I can only suppose as much.
 
Trippy said:
Stupid phone.

I think DMOE means good old Terra rather than the L3 point, however, until he responds to your question in post 6 I can only suppose as much.
Click to expand...

I'm sure he does refer to Earth. Still doesn't detract from the fact that in essence Sol is not in common use, and that this thread is about space stations, outposts and Satellites, and not the view of some pessimist who believes we should not be considering such things, when NASA, ESA, Roscosmos, Planetary Resources, and many many more, are actively doing such things.


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The Latin name for the star, Sol, is widely known but is not common in general English language use;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Name_and_etymology
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All in all, and if we are just considering the "near future" a Moon L1 or 2 would be by far the best choice, both scientifically and economically....Both being close to home and both within reasonable economic considerations, and both offer easy access to the Moon, where the first human planetary outpost will probably be constructed.
But I'm open for suggestions.

Again Satellites at most L points, I believe will eventuate.
 
I think this would be OK to put here...

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NASA suggests humans could be on Mars by 2035


—At the European Lunar Symposium held at the Museum earlier this month, NASA officials revealed that the Moon could be used as a practice ground for sending humans to Mars within 20 years

NASA's chief scientist Dr Ellen Stofan and deputy chief technologist Jim Adams told the assembled scientists that putting humans on Mars is NASA's 'primary mission'.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-05-nasa-humans-mars.html#jCp
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The main reason I found this article appropriate, is that it refers to what I was talking about with regards to Asteroids.....
This extract explains....
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Bagging an asteroid
Before taking the plunge and attempting to send people to Mars, and the associated dangers of deep space, NASA plans to use the Moon as an intermediate proving ground, because it is close enough to return astronauts home within a couple of days.


But rather than landing on the lunar surface, the plan is to pull an asteroid close enough to the Moon to allow astronauts to take samples from it.
The Asteroid Redirect Mission aims to find a small asteroid travelling between the Moon and Earth and to 'snag it, bag it and drag it' into orbit around the Moon where it can be reached by astronauts.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2014-05-nasa-humans-mars.html#jCp
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This is similar to what the private Enterprise company "Planetary Resources" is also considering and already planning.

"We were not born to stagnate on this fart arse little blue Orb"
paddoboy: :)
 
Re the last article....
To retrieve an Asteroid, to bring it into Lunar orbit, so that Astronauts can use it and take samples, as a sort of "Simulator/practice", in lieu of a manned Mars mission, and a subsequent outpost is highly commendable I must say.
As the article infers, in that scenario, they are in reasonably close contact with Earth/Moon, should any thing go wrong, thus making allowances for whatever may await them on a 5/6 months trip to Mars, 12 to 18 month stay, and then another 5 months return journey...or 60 odd million KMs distant.

Mars, obviously is the next desirable outpost after the Moon and Lunar L position.
 
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