Syria: The "Rebels" Are Terrorists

Discussion in 'Politics' started by RedStar, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    String, here's a good place to start http://www.rt.com/news/al-qaeda-involved-syria-conflict-047/
    And if you're going to criticize the source on the basis that it's Russia Today, well, I'll just turn around and criticize CNN and Fox.

    Bells, first of all, I'm not an idealist, so I don't care about "free speech" all that much. It's never existed anywhere, and it doesn't exist in the United States, either. And I'd rather have a secular Syria where minorities are protected than an Islamic state where they are not, despite the cost.

    It's cute how you are so passionate about what's going on in a country that's not even yours. Fact of the matter is, many Syrians support Assad and you are the one in a bubble (usually it's Americans who act like everything they declare is true for the entire world, I don't know if you're an American or not). The only reason I care is because I am sick and tired of the United States act holier-than-though all over the world. What fucking dipshits decrying Syria considering the 1 million they murdered in Iraq.
     
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    The US did not murder 1 million people in Iraq.
     
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  5. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    I see, they are just "collateral damage", right? The United States did murder 300,000 people in the Philippines.

    The point is, they kill people too, so they need to shut the fuck up. Just look at wikileaks and what it has revealed.
     
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    That number is disputed and most of the deaths in Iraq were due to sectarian violence which we did not cause.
     
  8. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    We can dispute details, but the United States has and does murder people in very imperialist-esque wars and conflicts. I'm not arguing this with you. I'm sick of your one-sided shit. Either respond to what I posted or don't.
     
  9. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Stop making every thread about your pet ideological talking points. This is supposed to be a thread about the Syrian civil war, isn't it? WTF is the relevance of all this warmed-over Cold War rhetoric?
     
  10. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    The relevance is the US government has zero, zilch, nada, moral high ground to criticize anybody else, considering it has done more evil than virtually any other nation except Nazi Germany in the last few years.

    Now, exactly, back to Syria. The point being, Syria is nobody's business but Syrians, and many of them want a secular Assad. And you know, even if Assad does go down, what, do you think the rebels are just going to waltz right into the capital and institute a new government? No. There will be sectarian conflict and civil war like never before, between Sunnis and everyone else, between loyalists and rebels, etc
     
  11. The Esotericist Getting the message to Garcia Valued Senior Member

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    It's nothing to do with Religion or Ideology, but everything to do with Realpolitik

    I've been a member here for some time. I am somewhat surprised it took so long for this issue to be posted as a thread. And when it finally has been posted as a thread, it has to be posted by a new member? I think the heart of the reason why it needs to be posted by a new member, is because the old members who dominant the discussing and chase off those with opposing view points, or ridicule those with view points that challenge the western paradigm would be embarassed to bring the subject up. Really. How many times do we need to see this?

    superstring01, do you honestly believe what you are writing? You see the same thing over and over again. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria? Do you honestly think that if the Russians and Chinese don't put their foot down and say "NO, no more" that the west and Israeli's aren't going to stop at this line? What is your rational? How do you excuse yourself in this discussion? Oh, I know, your same out. You must be given some expert media analysis that supports the opposing position. Don't you see the absurdity of your position? You want . . .
    What would be a journalist of reasonable repute in Syria? How about Iran? And China or Russia? Isn't it all relative? Seems to me you suffer from severe confirmation bias. If it doesn't conform to your world view, than it isn't a source of reasonable repute. Don't you think that is the case?

    For me, I recognize patterns. I think people are blind if they don't see them. Why don't you study something called realpolitik.

    None the less, I will try to make my case using sources that are not from Russia or Iran, nor from CFR and US/NATO funded media sources.

    Ever since the "Arab Spring," the Western political elites have sought to end the Assad regime. They have sought to do this through social media networks. They have sought to bring about the collapse of all of the autocratic governments that have been unfriendly to them in this manner. Social media networks are western agents of change, and are inherently politically friendly to western regimes via the internet. The roots of this revolution, civil war date back to that time period. However, the masses of people in Syria may not necessarily have been unhappy enough to commit to violent revolution. This is where NATO and their individual special forces and intelligence operations of the individual member states come in.

    Like the title of my post states, this state of affairs has nothing to do with what the people in Syria actually want. It has everything to do with what the political, financial, and military elites in the western nations want. This is a threat to Russia, China, and other nations of the world as they have been watching the nations of the west enact this strategy one by one in a unipolar world for the world's limited resources. This is called Realpolitik. Take an entry level course in international affairs at a junior college, it will all become very clear. Or read Kissinger's or Zbigniew Brzezinski's latest books.


    This is one topic I have been following quite intently for the past year. I have known for some time that British special forces have been training Syrian rebels since late last year. They admitted as much to the British people. This is from from May of this year. . . meaning they admitted in November??!! Who knows how long they were training. .
    http://www.eliteukforces.info/uk-military-news/0501012-british-special-forces-syria.php
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/nato-vs-syria/
    From December 19, 2011

    Philip Giraldi, a former CIA officer, is executive director of the Council for the National Interest.
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ML02Ak01.html

    Fundamentally, this whole thing has to do with Realpolitik. It has to do with NATO and Washington interests. Peak resources and "peak oil." I believe it also has to do with who will control the financial framework of the world's economic system. There may even be plans in the works to redraw the map of the middle east. Who knows? One thing you can be sure of, it has nothing to do with "freedom" or "democracy," the global elites don't give a whit about empty words like those.

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  12. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    Don't bother. This is why I hate arrogant Americans and their lackeys. They think they are morally high-and-mighty. I can't wait for China to replace the USA as the sole superpower. I'm gonna be laughing my ass off when the USA is invaded to be "liberated" and spidergoat complains about imperialism:roflmao:
     
  13. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    So, no relevance whatsoever, just the usual ideological browbeating and nationalist pissing contest.

    And many do not. And since Assad (and his father) have systematically worked to deprive Syria of legitimate, peaceful, democratic means for settling such questions of governance, the result is civil war.

    If you are going to hang your argument on the preferences of the Syrian people, then you can't avoid endorsing democracy in Syria. And that happens to be something that Assad is using systematic, brutal violence to prevent.

    That scenario has already come to pass, and so does not make for much of a scare.

    In the long run, the only way that Syria is going to have peaceful, stable politics is if there is a peaceful, legitimate, democratic means for settling such questions. As long as the Assad dynasty remains committed to playing the sects off against one another and using brutal force to retain dictatorial control, there is always going to be bloodshed in Syria's future. This genie isn't going to go back into the bottle. And it wasn't the United States who let it out of the bottle, and there's nothing in particular that the USA could do to end the conflict anyway. Your chest-beating for Russia's geopolitical position is just that.
     
  14. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Hating America is not going to fix Syria.

    Unlike yourself, of course.

    Again, where is the relevance of this whole nationalist pissing contest? It's clear that you don't give two shits about Syria, and just relish the chance to use them as a pretext for beating your chest over issues of petty nationalism. Quit your shitheaded trolling.
     
  15. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    I don't believe in your bourgeois democracy anyway, so I don't see it as any more legitimate or less legitimate than Assad's presidency.
     
  16. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    That's you're prerogative, of course, but it implies that nobody is going to take your pretense of advocating for Syrian self-determination seriously.

    And the issue is not so much "Assad's presidency" as the fact that the entire Syrian state/Baath party are an oppressive, brutal tyrranny, which is now being widely rejected as illegitimate by the Syrian people. Your idols in Moscow would do well to get on the right side of history here, if they don't want to end up reviled and shut out of Syria in retaliation for succoring a dictator as he murdered tens of thousands of Syrians.
     
  17. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    Here we go again. The "right side of history" is not for you to determine. History is not black and white.
     
  18. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    That wasn't a "determination," but an observation.

    Not that you yourself display the slightest of modesties when it comes to dictating historical morality, in the most black and white possible terms.

    By all means, though, die on this hill.
     
  19. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

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    I'd say I'm more willing to admit Soviet mistakes and shortcomings than many Americans I meet are willing to admit their own. But back on topic, many Syrians still support Assad and this is hardly a one-way street, as The Esotercist and Norse have said. This isn't a battle between "good and evil". It's a battle between two political groups with their own particular interests. People need to stop seeing history and politics in terms of morality and more in terms of material reality.
     
  20. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed, you have no problem describing yourself in such rosy terms when you need such as a premise to denounce others. Within a few posts, though, you'll be back to regurgitating dated hard-line Marxist Revolutionary rhetoric. You aren't fooling anyone.

    It's fine by me if they want to vote for Assad in free and fair democratic elections. I do not think their preferences would prevail in such a situation. I don't propose disenfranchizing any Syrians, unlike the Assad supporters who insist upon dictating the fate of the entire nation, through the use of violence.

    One of those groups has legitimate, defensible interests and one of those groups has illegitimate, indefensible "interests."

    It's trivially true that all political conflicts occur between groups with their own particular interests. That doesn't magically erase morality from the issue. Not all "interests" are morally equal.

    The "material reality" is that the Assad dynasty is a destructive force that continues to pervert and undermine Syria for its own narrow, illegitimate benefit.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Liberated from what? I might support it if it was a good cause.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The reverse, I am saying that as a chip off the old block he seems to have lost his way since he is attacking minority neigborhoods and major commercial centers where Sunnis are not granted favours by his government instead of the impoverished Sunni ghettos like daddy dear did. I just had a heated debate with a Saudi guy who is actively funding the rebels because everyone knows that Saudi Arabia is the best model in the Middle East for Syrian revolutionaries and maybe it helps that ambassador Ford is actively recruiting Assad's replacement in Cairo

    Ah Just what we need - another Sharia puppet state in the neighborhood

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/w...d-pentagon-planning-for-post-assad-syria.html

    And quite quite coincidentally this is the same ambassador who was visitiing Syria in January 2011 when the phantom bombs went off in Aleppo. Not sure what this means yet. Like in the case of Libya I have no access in Syria.
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    China has already invaded the country. They've outsourced fruit picking to Americans and gained access to their banks. If you've noted their lack of arable landmass and the huge American debt, you'll figure out how they're solving two problems in one go. And seeing that Adelson is willing to spend 100 million dollars to buy himself an American President, one wonders how far a Chinese lobby will go to purchase one for themselves too
     

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